Tindirin Wilds Changes

[Serancha]

50% armor debuff is too much of a game changer. Half the time that takes to kill a boss? Then we complain about useless hordes of pinks and nothing to farm? Not even going to mention PvP (assuming this is purely a PvE discussion).

Maybe a restriction like no more than two of each class members per run.

Erm...why no more than 2 of each class per run? Debuffs don't stack. Since the most logical skill to put this on would be axe throw, the c/d is 7 seconds (if memory serves), so 2 warriors wouldn't make any difference over 1.

[Madnex]

*Pulls Rendtail* xD

There was actually a bug where he could be pulled using Whim or Frosteye AA at the expansion's launch. Silent patch but you bet we had some fun with that!

Erm...why no more than 2 of each class per run? Debuffs don't stack. Since the most logical skill to put this on would be axe throw, the c/d is 7 seconds (if memory serves), so 2 warriors wouldn't make any difference over 1.

The point is to be forced to make the run class-diverse and not four rogues or three rogues one mage. Two rogues two mages would probably be preferred but enforcing one of each class necessary would limit the runs quite a bit.

[Serancha]

There was actually a bug where he could be pulled using Whim or Frosteye AA at the expansion's launch. Silent patch but you bet we had some fun with that!

The point is to be forced to make the run class-diverse and not four rogues or three rogues one mage. Two rogues two mages would probably be preferred but enforcing one of each class necessary would limit the runs quite a bit.

Ah I see what you did there. Would be kind of hard to code that, and it might really suck for pugs, having to wait till the appropriate classes showed up

[Xpolosion]

Ya this will absolutely kill the need for mages in timed runs zzzz

[Rx8]

*Pulls Rendtail* xD

Rendaitl will get alot of fractures....*runs and axes rend

Hmm..he ...broke horns...anyone willing to arc ring and SnS xD

[Carapace]

thanks for all the feedback guys, it's all very important stuff. The notion of converting warriors into a hybrid of debuff/tank is certainly interesting and could provide a new dynamic that shy's away from the typical "tank" stereotype.

Good thoughts, in the meantime we'll try and make any zone improvements moving forward a bit more interesting. Certainly newer content could have the smaller pulls with more strategy involved that required the different classes for example, compared to the previous zones of typically a "more dudes" mentality. the thread has not fallen on deaf ears, thanks again!

[Ardbeg]

thanks for all the feedback guys, it's all very important stuff. The notion of converting warriors into a hybrid of debuff/tank is certainly interesting and could provide a new dynamic that shy's away from the typical "tank" stereotype.

Good thoughts, in the meantime we'll try and make any zone improvements moving forward a bit more interesting. Certainly newer content could have the smaller pulls with more strategy involved that required the different classes for example, compared to the previous zones of typically a "more dudes" mentality. the thread has not fallen on deaf ears, thanks again!

thank you for listening. the implications of this are a lot bigger then just map design. for example the lb runs during events: all classes have separate leaderboards. but the tanks with the most dps friends win, as lb running rogues can t be bothered with tanks. this brings tons of drama in all guilds. it surely can t be resolved by map design alone, but has to be kept in mind by all design decisions, especially skill system revision.

[ueveotadeo]

thanks for all the feedback guys, it's all very important stuff. The notion of converting warriors into a hybrid of debuff/tank is certainly interesting and could provide a new dynamic that shy's away from the typical "tank" stereotype.

Good thoughts, in the meantime we'll try and make any zone improvements moving forward a bit more interesting. Certainly newer content could have the smaller pulls with more strategy involved that required the different classes for example, compared to the previous zones of typically a "more dudes" mentality. the thread has not fallen on deaf ears, thanks again!

Thank you for listening!

[Xorrior]

thanks for all the feedback guys, it's all very important stuff. The notion of converting warriors into a hybrid of debuff/tank is certainly interesting and could provide a new dynamic that shy's away from the typical "tank" stereotype.

Good thoughts, in the meantime we'll try and make any zone improvements moving forward a bit more interesting. Certainly newer content could have the smaller pulls with more strategy involved that required the different classes for example, compared to the previous zones of typically a "more dudes" mentality. the thread has not fallen on deaf ears, thanks again!

I am happy to read that you're thinking in the lines of a debuff tank. Thank you Carapace. Perhaps also a little thought on how you can prevent rogue gangs running amok in future content and elite. Make the rogues require mages and tanks. If I was creating elite content for next expansion, I would add something that would nullify the OP of 3-4 rogue gang.

It isn't a secret that OP rogue owners will rant/whinge to have content nerfed until 4 of them can run it easy, and then all of a sudden they will stop the ranting and whinging - and then milk the content for all it's worth!

[Carapace]

the things in discussion here are beginning to run deeper than the scope of what is being addressed at the moment, however we will keep the ideas in mind for suture development where applicable.

[Zeus]

thanks for all the feedback guys, it's all very important stuff. The notion of converting warriors into a hybrid of debuff/tank is certainly interesting and could provide a new dynamic that shy's away from the typical "tank" stereotype.

Good thoughts, in the meantime we'll try and make any zone improvements moving forward a bit more interesting. Certainly newer content could have the smaller pulls with more strategy involved that required the different classes for example, compared to the previous zones of typically a "more dudes" mentality. the thread has not fallen on deaf ears, thanks again!

I have a simpler solution that wouldn't require much too many complex changes. Remember Overlord or Trash Heap?

In PL, the way class relevance was determined was through bosses. Often times, there would be a shield or some sort of barrier that a boss would put up that could only be removed by using a skill of a specific class. Moving forward and perhaps incorporating this into planar tombs, do exactly that. Perhaps an enrage feature and only applying CS keeps that feature at bay. Of course, there can be other tactics or skills required to take down a boss.

Thoughts?

[Kakashis]

This is the first MMO I've ever played where the sorc isn't allowed to use heal in elites because it gets you killed.

My suggestion is to remove a rogue's +250% crit damage. They can still do it, but only by the following:

Give sorcs a buffing skill that grants warriors a magical power to debuff enemies, and if and only if these enemies have been debuffed by this way, can the rogue actually achieve back their +250% crit damage.

This way, you encourage mixed class teams and the runs are the fastest when doing so. Yes it's kind of like taking away your candy, but if warriors can't mana Regen or so HOR anymore, I think this would be a positive thing.

[Zeus]

This is the first MMO I've ever played where the sorc isn't allowed to use heal in elites because it gets you killed. My suggestion is give sorcs a buffing skill that allows warriors magical powers to debuff, if and only when enemies are warrior specifically debuffed would the boss/enemy be subject to the +250% crit bonus damage.

This way, you encourage mixed class teams and the runs are the fastest when doing so. Yes it's kind of like taking away your candy, but if warriors can't mana Regen or so HOR anymore, I think this would be a positive thing.

That's a great idea but that would involve changing the way classes work. Personally, I like it, however, I think a solution they're going for is something that adds warriors being a requirement to run but do not take away from the way classes currently function, no?

[Leambow]

I have got to see this new map layout

[Leambow]

Wow literally a second after I started running I see how spread out they are, I agree with the others wars this is killing the need for tanks

[Kakashis]

That's a great idea but that would involve changing the way classes work. Personally, I like it, however, I think a solution they're going for is something that adds warriors being a requirement to run but do not take away from the way classes currently function, no?

I was revising my post as you quoted Hehe, in essence all 3 classes would play the same as they do now. The only thing it would change is that a team of 4 rogues probably won't be as fast as a mixed 3 class team. In essence, it would encourage the way the game was meant to be played. Imagine a team of 4 rogues that just aren't doing the crit damage!

It makes sense too, warrior is able to open a weak spot on enemies with help of mage boost, and the rogue can actually hit the weak spot!

[GoodSyntax]

Nooooo......my solos!

[Kriticality]

I was revising my post as you quoted Hehe, in essence all 3 classes would play the same as they do now. The only thing it would change is that a team of 4 rogues probably won't be as fast as a mixed 3 class team. In essence, it would encourage the way the game was meant to be played. Imagine a team of 4 rogues that just aren't doing the crit damage!

It makes sense too, warrior is able to open a weak spot on enemies with help of mage boost, and the rogue can actually hit the weak spot!

Take away all crit damage? Of just the bonus crit damage? Even regular crit damage with 4 rogues would be faster than mixed party no?

[Kakashis]

Nooooo......my solos!

Hehe, you can still solo it'll just take you an hour and a half!

Take away all crit damage? Of just the bonus crit damage? Even regular crit damage with 4 rogues would be faster than mixed party no?

Well, the 250% bonus AS should never happen in a party of 4 rogues anymore and is the most lethal, but if that's not enough, keep removing bonuses!

[Jirikjurasek]

All of this "force to all class in party" are bad idea in the end. I like to run with friends and what should we do when Madnex "maximum of 2 per class" will be implemented and I want to go with 3 the same class?

Only maul users with 50% armor debuf are usefull in elites now, in the end I find myself that the most usefull thing what I can do in elites is pray for proc. Get that debuff into skill and allow Vengefull Blood and Juggernaut to be party buff in PvE