Warriors we want to play to!

[Maarkus]

I posted some suggestions on Remiem's weekly update thread(and fixed some typos @@)


Hi Remiem,
Thanks for the updates, much appreciated as usual

Thank you also for the transparency and honestly that sts is not sure when the skill will be fixed. It takes a lot to admit that one doesnt know but in mentioning that, can certain things be done that is within the current skill system?

I only play the warrior class so im going to be warrior pve specific here.

The reason why i put this across is that as mentioned and quite known, the warrior class is the least efficient endgame pve farming class thus with that parties rarely need a warrior. The threat here is that as the new expan is comming and farming will be essential we may face another demographic being alienated from farming. I understand that you are looking into maps that will need a mix class combination to run but at the moment can you kindly look at the warrior skills and review.

Chestsplitter has an upgrade called Staggering Blow; that cancels the boss wind up and this was 'disabled' sometime in season 3, can this be enabled/activated again as this was and can be the saving grace of warriors in a party. The red zone fixes are being implemented this will just enable different classes to go range, but if a warrior can cancell the boss and mob windup then we can have a chance at being and integral cmponent in the farming party
Attachment 124697

Aside from this, armor reduction is another avenue where warrior can benefit a farming party. Which is also already integrated into our skills. Axe throw has this option (skill upgrade : Denting Blow) though it is only 10percent, and i assume its duration is 1sec can this be modified to atleast 30percent armor reduction and last atleast 2seconds?
Attachment 124698

I push and appeal for such changes as mentioned in other threads the warrior class efficientcy in PVE farming is near obsolete and the proposed skill solution... For chestsplitter its not even a buff , i only suggest to bring back the upgrade as it is not active. For axe throw it is a buff but a much needed one.

I have seen enough fellow warriors change to rogues just to farm, and enough social alienation for warrior class thus i really hope you that my suggestions seriously.

Thanks for reading

Maarkus

[Excuses]

While I respec for complete pve skills, got a couple of things to press.

1. Vg buff to all pt seems a great idea, however, range of it will be a problem, also it has no taunt which means we have to give up one taunt skill to to make the run faster. Honestly I'm not happy with this.
I would rather like to have 'great' armor debuff on all taunt skills or curse(sorry mages) like Bulwark has.
1 warrior should be able to buff more dmg to pt than 1 rogue can do. Or this whole upgrade is pointless.
Ex) on arena enrage, 1 warrior pt should be able to finish the boss faster than 4 rogues pt.

2. All skills should work as it is indicated.
Cs- cancel boss skill and feeble
AT- be able to pull all bosses and feeble.
WM- snare boss
HoR- taunt on each heals with upgrade.
Jugg- (my wish) has wider range of taunt

3.taunt should be stronger.
It does work atm, but still needs little longer period of attention.


Some suggestions.

[Energizeric]

As a sorcerer, I'd like to make a couple of comments to this thread....

1) As we get later into each season and more players have arcane & mythic gear, the elite dungeons become easier than when the season first started, so the need to have a tank becomes less than before. Since we are right at the end of the current season and a new expansion is coming soon, that is probably the main reason why many tanks are feeling unneeded.

2) At the beginning of the season when most players are under-geared, having a tank (or two) in a party running elites is absolutely necessary.

3) Even now, some of the more difficult content such as the Planar tombs requires a good tank for 95% of parties. Unless you have a rogue like Zeus with 1800 armor, you are going to need a tank.

And just a side note, yesterday I had a party with 2 rogues and myself (a sorcerer) and we wanted to do some runs in tombs #3. We could not find a warrior to join us. We stood around in the tombs for a half hour asking, but every warrior that came through there was already in a party. Then we tried to run the tomb without a warrior, and that turned out really bad as we all kept dying a lot. Finally we found a warrior after a half hour of asking around, and things went much more smoothly. So yes warriors are needed when you have the most difficult content. For easier situations such as the Arena, where speed is more of a concern, then warriors are not as needed.

[Kriticality]

Ener your first point is very good and something I haven't considered. I just started playing in October so haven't seen a season transition. I also think that maarkus has a great idea to make skills work as they should. Boasting to 30% armor debuff may not make tanks necessary for the super elite rogue party but I sure would love to have a tank in my party if that were implemented. Tanks do need at least a little love at end game pve. Especially in arena with the enrage. Canceling those boss attacks would be awesome!!

[regizakirs.rs]

A warrior is always welcome in any pt that I'm involved in if I'm the party leader. As a matter of fact any tanks that want to run with me just pm me in game. My ign is ladynifft and thanks warriors

[Maarkus]

As a sorcerer, I'd like to make a couple of comments to this thread....

1) As we get later into each season and more players have arcane & mythic gear, the elite dungeons become easier than when the season first started, so the need to have a tank becomes less than before. Since we are right at the end of the current season and a new expansion is coming soon, that is probably the main reason why many tanks are feeling unneeded.

2) At the beginning of the season when most players are under-geared, having a tank (or two) in a party running elites is absolutely necessary.

3) Even now, some of the more difficult content such as the Planar tombs requires a good tank for 95% of parties. Unless you have a rogue like Zeus with 1800 armor, you are going to need a tank.

And just a side note, yesterday I had a party with 2 rogues and myself (a sorcerer) and we wanted to do some runs in tombs #3. We could not find a warrior to join us. We stood around in the tombs for a half hour asking, but every warrior that came through there was already in a party. Then we tried to run the tomb without a warrior, and that turned out really bad as we all kept dying a lot. Finally we found a warrior after a half hour of asking around, and things went much more smoothly. So yes warriors are needed when you have the most difficult content. For easier situations such as the Arena, where speed is more of a concern, then warriors are not as needed.

Hi Ener,

Regarding your side note.

I think this is a side effect of what was a prevailing issue a few months back when warrior frealized that they are in efficient in PVE thus many of them made rogue toons. Now the warrior pve focused player are switching class thus less warrir around. Ive seen the effect in my friendlist as well when the rogue alts of warrior that i know show up rather than the warrior mains.

The thing that i fear the most is when the expan hits and farming in the first 2-3weeks is extensive a lot of warriors would have already switch toons and then there will be a lot less warriors in the game.

I think this is where STS has to change their perspective, its not all about stats or gear anymore its about how player feel when they play a particular toon. A perfect example is some rogue llayer that feel confortable in all legendary gear and still feel efficient in farming, this shows how strong a rogue toon can be in pve farming but if applied to the warrior class... I dont thinm so there will be some form of 'inadequacy' felt as the toon is not as 'strong/efficient' as our hopes would be.

Thanks for your post and for reading

maarkus

[Bmwmsix]

Bump

[Jazzi]

As a sorcerer, I'd like to make a couple of comments to this thread....

1) As we get later into each season and more players have arcane & mythic gear, the elite dungeons become easier than when the season first started, so the need to have a tank becomes less than before. Since we are right at the end of the current season and a new expansion is coming soon, that is probably the main reason why many tanks are feeling unneeded.

2) At the beginning of the season when most players are under-geared, having a tank (or two) in a party running elites is absolutely necessary.

3) Even now, some of the more difficult content such as the Planar tombs requires a good tank for 95% of parties. Unless you have a rogue like Zeus with 1800 armor, you are going to need a tank.

And just a side note, yesterday I had a party with 2 rogues and myself (a sorcerer) and we wanted to do some runs in tombs #3. We could not find a warrior to join us. We stood around in the tombs for a half hour asking, but every warrior that came through there was already in a party. Then we tried to run the tomb without a warrior, and that turned out really bad as we all kept dying a lot. Finally we found a warrior after a half hour of asking around, and things went much more smoothly. So yes warriors are needed when you have the most difficult content. For easier situations such as the Arena, where speed is more of a concern, then warriors are not as needed.

I have thought about the reasons you mentioned above. It is true that it is easier to do the elite maps without a tank if you have myth gear. Nevertheless it is still way easier and less costly in terms of potions ankhs and elixirs, albeit a minute or two slower, if you have a tank in your party. The overgeared players, e.g rogues with 5 k health 1700+ armour and 700+ damage, are very few in percentage and practically statistically negligible relative to the whole game population.

The lack of tanks really is frustrating sometimes when trying to make a t3 party. I also have to say here, that sadly, that some of those maxed or almost maxed out tanks have little to no skill in PvE. Today I had the displeasure of playing t3 with one of those, who is also avidly complaining on the forums about not being able to find parties.

Hi Ener,

Regarding your side note.

I think this is a side effect of what was a prevailing issue a few months back when warrior frealized that they are in efficient in PVE thus many of them made rogue toons. Now the warrior pve focused player are switching class thus less warrir around. Ive seen the effect in my friendlist as well when the rogue alts of warrior that i know show up rather than the warrior mains.

The thing that i fear the most is when the expan hits and farming in the first 2-3weeks is extensive a lot of warriors would have already switch toons and then there will be a lot less warriors in the game.

I think this is where STS has to change their perspective, its not all about stats or gear anymore its about how player feel when they play a particular toon. A perfect example is some rogue llayer that feel confortable in all legendary gear and still feel efficient in farming, this shows how strong a rogue toon can be in pve farming but if applied to the warrior class... I dont thinm so there will be some form of 'inadequacy' felt as the toon is not as 'strong/efficient' as our hopes would be.

Thanks for your post and for reading

maarkus

I think that the efficiency of the rogue class is mainly based on on the immense hp of the elite mobs. I have seen this in other games as well, when the game producers did eventually change it. The problem is, imo, that although mobs do hit harder in elite maps, there hp is increased disproportionately as compared to the health increase of the mobs from there "normal" counterparts. Simply said: it takes forever to kill them, thus making the presence of more than one warrior in the pt ineffective.

And by the way a rogue in legendary gear is the hardest to play of the three classes: A tank in legendary gear can tank all elite maps with ease (have seen it first hand and play regularly with a warrior in legendary gear who does a much better job than most tanks I have played with. Some of them maxed out). A mage with legendary gear, might do less damage, but still can do the his most important job: crows control. A legendary rogue has no shield as a mage and lower hp than a mage and gets one hit by many mobs in elite. But most importantly it cant do then the one thing it is good at: deal damage. Further a legendary rogue has the highest expenditure in terms of ankhs, mana and health potions of the 3 classes.

And last but not least. I do agree that warriors need some modifications. Something has to be done about their ability to keep aggro with their taunt skills and maybe give them some debuffs. However many of the statements in this and other similar threads, not referring to yours in particular, are extremely exaggerated. Just my 2 cents.

Regards :-)

[Maarkus]

I have thought about the reasons you mentioned above. It is true that it is easier to do the elite maps without a tank if you have myth gear. Nevertheless it is still way easier and less costly in terms of potions ankhs and elixirs, albeit a minute or two slower, if you have a tank in your party. The overgeared players, e.g rogues with 5 k health 1700+ armour and 700+ damage, are very few in percentage and practically statistically negligible relative to the whole game population.

The lack of tanks really is frustrating sometimes when trying to make a t3 party. I also have to say here, that sadly, that some of those maxed or almost maxed out tanks have little to no skill in PvE. Today I had the displeasure of playing t3 with one of those, who is also avidly complaining on the forums about not being able to find parties.



I think that the efficiency of the rogue class is mainly based on on the immense hp of the elite mobs. I have seen this in other games as well, when the game producers did eventually change it. The problem is, imo, that although mobs do hit harder in elite maps, there hp is increased disproportionately as compared to the health increase of the mobs from there "normal" counterparts. Simply said: it takes forever to kill them, thus making the presence of more than one warrior in the pt ineffective.

And by the way a rogue in legendary gear is the hardest to play of the three classes: A tank in legendary gear can tank all elite maps with ease (have seen it first hand and play regularly with a warrior in legendary gear who does a much better job than most tanks I have played with. Some of them maxed out). A mage with legendary gear, might do less damage, but still can do the his most important job: crows control. A legendary rogue has no shield as a mage and lower hp than a mage and gets one hit by many mobs in elite. But most importantly it cant do then the one thing it is good at: deal damage. Further a legendary rogue has the highest expenditure in terms of ankhs, mana and health potions of the 3 classes.

And last but not least. I do agree that warriors need some modifications. Something has to be done about their ability to keep aggro with their taunt skills and maybe give them some debuffs. However many of the statements in this and other similar threads, not referring to yours in particular, are extremely exaggerated. Just my 2 cents.

Regards :-)

Hi Jazzi,
Thanks for your comments
I thinks its really about who you are playimg with and how well the party works with each other.
Ive had the priveledge of playing with some of the best and also experienced playing with those that dont have much experience and i even play PUG every now and then just to leadn how to addapt to players that i dont know.
I guess my comments come from playing with a group that i play constantly with.
With that in mind ive seen the slow 'degenaration' of the warrior class as an efficient toon in elite pve farming thus my attempts to get STS to buff some skills and to 'return' some skills like the chesst splitter upgrage Staggering blow.
To be bonest its really all about the party expectations. Some parties dont mind running slow runs and some parties want fast runs.
Its in the fast runs were warrior start to falter. My best example is T3, before the T3 map was even modified, i mean the very first release when people were complaining of the difficulty, i ran with rogues that can accomplish this map in 5-6mins (3-4 rogue party) and when i (warrior) get in to the mix they his 9-10mins. Then yah this is frustrating for them.
But even before this, in the shuyal expan i already noticed the warrior 'degeneration' start to take effect.
Regarding you comment on warrior need to taunt/maintain aggro better, this is absolutely correct but in my personal oppinion cannot be achieved efficiently due to the core game mechanics this i dont even bother to request STS to fix it cos i personally belive it will invovle a major overhaul. Please not i just based my oppinion on game play experience and not on coding as i honestly have no clue on programming.
The main issue warriors are having in maintating aggro is the massive damage output of rogues and mages (may it be from damge and crit damege) the mobs redirect their attention to the other class so easily now compared to season 2/3/4. From what i understand from earlier Tanks and seasoned veterants is that warrior Taunts reset the threat meter of Mobs and bosses at the same time makes the tauntimg warrior priority one in attack but this does not have a fixed time thus as soom as the mages and rogues start dissing out damage (and obviously fasters and more than warriors) the threat counter fill up more on them than the warrior thus mobs and bosses immediately redirect to them. This is where the amount of newly casted taunts become more important than taunts over time as the new goal for tanks should be to reset the threat counters as often as possible. This is where the Warrior skills become key, and at the moment they are not. Thus the request to review and revaluate them.

I mean i gues we all agree that warrior need a 'buff' but not stat wise but skill efficientcy wise.

This lack of review has caused many warriors to change class thus the current predicament of the game. Unless sts sees this and accepts it and fixes the warrior skills i fear it will just continue thus warriors are now making rogues ( as mentioned in posts by some prominent warriors) ... The expansion is comming so that like 2-3 weekings of opportunty to make good gold and its all about how fast you finish a map , thus why go warrior? This is something only STS can address as a majority of the population wont even bother to study and develop the warrior toons.

Ok ill stop as i feel like im blaabing @@

But thank for your comment as it helps keep the issue alive as STS need to address this issue more

Thanks for reading.

Maarkus

[Rx8]

All i could understand from Maarkus' post ATM, is - that the skill upgrades are the suitable cause for warriors slowin down the party. Right?...Correct me if i am wrong

[Maarkus]

All i could understand from Maarkus' post ATM, is - that the skill upgrades are the suitable cause for warriors slowin down the party. Right?...Correct me if i am wrong

Hi Rx8,
Sorry was blaberring ther.
Not at all, the All im saying is that the skill upgrade: 'staggering blow' of chest splitter needs to be reactivated by sts as the cancel boss wind ups is disabled. And that the warrior skills need to be 'buffed' for pve elite farming and this is something in plave already sts just needs to activate it.
Currently the main issues is that warriors are inefficient because we cant contribute much to the party for elite farming.
And numerous suggestuons have been made to fix them but STS says its a major job ... What i was trying to say is why is it a major task to fix when the updgrades we need in the skills are already there but not turned on- staggering blow of chest splitter and the armor reduction of 10 percent in denting blow of axe throw needs to be increased to maybe 30 percent.
I hipe that helps clarify things
Thanks for reading
Maarkus

[Rx8]

Hi Rx8,
Sorry was blaberring ther.
Not at all, the All im saying is that the skill upgrade: 'staggering blow' of chest splitter needs to be reactivated by sts as the cancel boss wind ups is disabled. And that the warrior skills need to be 'buffed' for pve elite farming and this is something in plave already sts just needs to activate it.
Currently the main issues is that warriors are inefficient because we cant contribute much to the party for elite farming.
And numerous suggestuons have been made to fix them but STS says its a major job ... What i was trying to say is why is it a major task to fix when the updgrades we need in the skills are already there but not turned on- staggering blow of chest splitter and the armor reduction of 10 percent in denting blow of axe throw needs to be increased to maybe 30 percent.
I hipe that helps clarify things
Thanks for reading
Maarkus

I didnt see much of blabbering, it looked like more of the blame-for-it stuff.

I would agree on this buffing the chance rates, but since STS is afraid of the outcome, and the period of doing this is also very long enough to be mentioned. Also, maybe it would be good to buff as if this lower chances continue...the new expansion would be at a very slow rate. If you know what i am talking about. It would be really cool to buff if it at least when the elite version of the expansion is out...They said it being a major job as there are alot of players, one change by the devs is major, thus the fear. A simple mistake can cost the games downfall too (well, thats obviously not gonna happen! Lol) They try their best from the user experience. And, the buff in pve needs to happen soon too (as i said Above, the rate of speed). At this rate things seem fine, not upto expectations but somewhat legit (ish).

How about buffing when the expansion is out...or...

[Jazzi]

Hi Jazzi,
Thanks for your comments
I thinks its really about who you are playimg with and how well the party works with each other.
Ive had the priveledge of playing with some of the best and also experienced playing with those that dont have much experience and i even play PUG every now and then just to leadn how to addapt to players that i dont know.
I guess my comments come from playing with a group that i play constantly with.
With that in mind ive seen the slow 'degenaration' of the warrior class as an efficient toon in elite pve farming thus my attempts to get STS to buff some skills and to 'return' some skills like the chesst splitter upgrage Staggering blow.
To be bonest its really all about the party expectations. Some parties dont mind running slow runs and some parties want fast runs.
Its in the fast runs were warrior start to falter. My best example is T3, before the T3 map was even modified, i mean the very first release when people were complaining of the difficulty, i ran with rogues that can accomplish this map in 5-6mins (3-4 rogue party) and when i (warrior) get in to the mix they his 9-10mins. Then yah this is frustrating for them.
But even before this, in the shuyal expan i already noticed the warrior 'degeneration' start to take effect.
Regarding you comment on warrior need to taunt/maintain aggro better, this is absolutely correct but in my personal oppinion cannot be achieved efficiently due to the core game mechanics this i dont even bother to request STS to fix it cos i personally belive it will invovle a major overhaul. Please not i just based my oppinion on game play experience and not on coding as i honestly have no clue on programming.
The main issue warriors are having in maintating aggro is the massive damage output of rogues and mages (may it be from damge and crit damege) the mobs redirect their attention to the other class so easily now compared to season 2/3/4. From what i understand from earlier Tanks and seasoned veterants is that warrior Taunts reset the threat meter of Mobs and bosses at the same time makes the tauntimg warrior priority one in attack but this does not have a fixed time thus as soom as the mages and rogues start dissing out damage (and obviously fasters and more than warriors) the threat counter fill up more on them than the warrior thus mobs and bosses immediately redirect to them. This is where the amount of newly casted taunts become more important than taunts over time as the new goal for tanks should be to reset the threat counters as often as possible. This is where the Warrior skills become key, and at the moment they are not. Thus the request to review and revaluate them.

I mean i gues we all agree that warrior need a 'buff' but not stat wise but skill efficientcy wise.

This lack of review has caused many warriors to change class thus the current predicament of the game. Unless sts sees this and accepts it and fixes the warrior skills i fear it will just continue thus warriors are now making rogues ( as mentioned in posts by some prominent warriors) ... The expansion is comming so that like 2-3 weekings of opportunty to make good gold and its all about how fast you finish a map , thus why go warrior? This is something only STS can address as a majority of the population wont even bother to study and develop the warrior toons.

Ok ill stop as i feel like im blaabing @@

But thank for your comment as it helps keep the issue alive as STS need to address this issue more

Thanks for reading.

Maarkus

Well I play the game since the the Ursoth event last year, so I really cant talk about anything before that. As for the rest I agree with you. Maybe a fast and temporary solution, until sts changes the whole skill system, is to at least implement timers in the taunts, so that they do keep 100% aggro for a certain amount of time. But honestly I really hope for things like "warcries", which buff the whole party and/or debuff the mobs. This, inmo, would much more fun :-)

[Dragoonclaws]

I've ran a some Elite Planar Arena. Planar Arena be like ''I have an army'' (of bosses), and we like ''We have a Hulk'' (Badulaseros, da warrior). At the end of the round, Badul be like ''Puny boss''

[Tatman]

I also have to say here, that sadly, that some of those maxed or almost maxed out tanks have little to no skill in PvE. Today I had the displeasure of playing t3 with one of those, who is also avidly complaining on the forums about not being able to find parties.

In my experience there are other factors at play here too.

1. Tank might be lagging. While a rogue lagging can sometimes even go unnoticed by the rest of the party, a tank lagging will very often result in awful runs. I know this, since some of the tanks, I love running with, have been lagging badly recently. If you run with one of them for the first time and catch him in one of those moments, you'll easily say "wow this guy is crap". While truth is he's an excellent tank.

2. A lot of tanks go to places like Tombs with their PvP builds. Or with their so called "hybrid builds", which for a lot of them means PvP build with a couple taunts thrown in the mix. It just does not work. But I don't blame warriors. It's what the current situation in this game dictates. Not everyone has the resources to respec all the time.

[Maarkus]

Well I play the game since the the Ursoth event last year, so I really cant talk about anything before that. As for the rest I agree with you. Maybe a fast and temporary solution, until sts changes the whole skill system, is to at least implement timers in the taunts, so that they do keep 100% aggro for a certain amount of time. But honestly I really hope for things like "warcries", which buff the whole party and/or debuff the mobs. This, inmo, would much more fun :-)

Hi Jazzi,
From what i understand STS is not inclined towards revamping the skills within a short period of time as they need more 'research' for this thats why im pushing for buffs to certain skills which is just increasing the values for damage reduction and to bring back the cancell windups of enemies of the chest splitter skill as these are already in place and it should be a quick thing to do i mean the reduce/increase exisiting percentages all the time so i hope this is something they can manage.
As for war cry thats a complete overhaul i myself am not confident sts can pull it off without redoing the skill system... Sad but in my opinion true