Regarding Class Balance.

[Caabatric]

I'm not sure your point. Rogues are supposed to deal most damage to single targets. Mages have more hp and damage as I said before. You refuted and I see no evidence. Aimed shot is better than light. It's silly that all these numbers are thrown out without proof. Show me a rogue max gear end game that has more hp and damage than arry or voorg or seven. Who are you referring to when you correct me? Mages pvp situation is not nearly as dire as some Mages here would have you believe. Tanks pve situation at end game is a lot worse imo. Geared mages at end game are op. 50% crit on mage? They have more crit, damage, health, and close armor as mythic set/arcane ring rogues. They have more crit, damage, health and less armor than imbued/arcane ring rogues. There are no rogues in pvp that have more in all categories than Mages.
There should be some adjustments to be made in skills I agree, but stats are not the answer. Pics or it didn't happen. I'm happy to retract my opinion if there is proof otherwise. Maybe there is a rogue I haven't seen before.

Your comparing rogues with max gear to mages with max gear.

What you dont understand is that the reason the mage imbued gear mages can compare with rogues is because it has given us a major increase in stats in comparison to mythic in the places we mages need it (health, damage). However, most mages are using the mythic gear or even legendary gear. These gear stats compared to a rogue with equal gear will show you why many mages are complaining or at least better justify it.

Also most tanks seem fine in end game. Most tanks with just legendary gear can compete (not always win) with mythic rogues and mages. IMO.

Next you cant look at damage stats but rather skills. Looking at the stat page damage you could easily say that tanks are the best class which can achieve 600+ damage 7,000+ hp, and 2,300+ armor. Still a mage with equal gear and proper skill can probably beat this tank. Looking at skills you see that rogues have the highest damage output skills. That isn't a problem for me as thats what they are meant to do but look at the gap between aim shot and lightning. Aim shot can ko any mage and some rogues. Light on the same rogues and mages may take 30-50% of the health away. Compare many skills between the 2 classes and you will see often rogues triumph.

As you mentioned top gear mages can compete with top gear rogues and wars which makes me confident that sts is paving the way for better class balance but it may take a while for it to go into effect.

[Kriticality]

Mythic rogues are closer to 3700 hp and 1400 armor iirc. I agree that the road is sometimes hard to reach the potential of each class. I was cursing myself soloing tombs to level as a rogue compared to my mage. The only reason I compare max geared classes is because people throw out numbers way higher than what I noted at the beginning of my post here. When people discuss tank rogues. They are most certainly talking about imbued will and/or ring rogues. 1400 armor is mythic rogue. Mages with 1022 armor are as close to rogues mythics as rogues are to 1800 mythic tank armor. I believe the point of all my posts is the same that you are saying. It's not about stats. 1400 armor Mages can be one shot. 1700 armor rogues can be one shot. It is the skills, not the stats. Level 40 players and legendary players are def stepping into the lions den at end game pvp. Prob worse for Mages but a hurdle for every class. Mythic armor Mages should be able to beat legendary rogues and they were before imbued sets came along.

[Kingofninjas]

I think its only natural that rogues own 1 vs 1. Thats what they are built for. What many mages who complain about squishiness do not realize is that mages are NOT the squishiest class. It's rogues. Maxed out mages, as Madnex stated, have more HP that maxed out rogues. Also, in an evenly geared situation, mages shield allows them to tank 1-2 combos depending on the damage and crit rate of the rogue who is shooting. Rogues on the other hand, will die from a single combo and often from a single aimed shot.

I think the reason mages are complaining is that maxed out rogues can absolutely destroy mages are aren't evenly geared, sometimes even killing them in 1 combo through their shield. I agree with them when they say that this should not be happening, even comparing a ring rogue to a mythic mage, they should be able to survive long enough to do what they do best, stunlock.

[goodjuice]

Sorry rouges are way op. On my full mythic sorc w para and I'm get owned all the time by rouges w exp bows and worse. I use a PvP build and have gotten very good at it on my rouge I know what I'm doing but don't stand a chance on my sorc. People seem to think that because of aoe sorcs are useful in a brawl, but if your first aoe doesn't kill people in a brawl u get killed accidentally by your opponents in it. The auction house alone should be able to tell u which class is best at cap. Rogue gear is most expensive because the most competitive players choose to play them, not because they all choose to play them, but because it allows them to be most the effective. In a game where there was any balance the prices for a mythic item for sorc would be about the same for the equivalent rogue or warrior item.

[Madnex]

People, it's really not that complicated. If your gear, skill build and strategy don't suck, you have a pretty good chance to take down the rogue - even without stunlock with pet. Taking down a warrior is considerably harder since they require more than the 5-6 skills that rogues do, inevitably drawing the fight out and giving the chance to more people to join in while the sorcerer is already at a tough spot due to class disadvantage on 1v1 scenario. Just to clarify, to beat a warrior on the same gear tier you will most likely need five skills, with heal as a backup in case the original stunlock fails.

There is also a certain bug that affects sorcerer's fireball stun, rogue's bow stun and pretty much all pets that have a chance to stun (not panic and terrify, those work as intended). The issue is that after the target is hit by a damage over time skill (eg. Noxious Bolt from rogue, Frost Bolt from sorc) that sets off the stun immunity making any attempts at a stun to fail after the DoT is in effect. Which simply means, using Frost Bolt/Fireball repeatedly or a pet with some sort of DoT is actually a bad idea since it'll prevent your next charged fireball from stunning for the full duration of a stun.

[siddhant]

u say mages are meant for stuns rouges have razor tank have jugg useless most endgame rouges crit in every2 shots draining a lot of life if u dont have ur shield on u gg u say mages are designed for clashes but hte best team for clash according to many ppl opinion is 2tank2rouge1mage hmm and abt our heal dont get me started on that

[Nesria]

hmm
they should replace invulnerability with mana shield (which is that when attacked takes mana instead of health), also decrease shield time(time that shields active for) and shield CD {Like 3 or 5 sec shield duration and 15 or 20 sec CD}.

[Madnex]

u say mages are meant for stuns rouges have razor tank have jugg useless most endgame rouges crit in every2 shots draining a lot of life if u dont have ur shield on u gg u say mages are designed for clashes but hte best team for clash according to many ppl opinion is 2tank2rouge1mage hmm and abt our heal dont get me started on that

Razor only lasts for five seconds. And you get two of them unscathed from the shield invulnerability so how hard is it to survive three more seconds against a rogue with two damage skills? You can and should tank until the jugg wears off, if the warrior is using that. Just swap it with ice and keep a distance, not so hard.

[Rx8]

I think its only natural that rogues own 1 vs 1. Thats what they are built for. What many mages who complain about squishiness do not realize is that mages are NOT the squishiest class. It's rogues. Maxed out mages, as Madnex stated, have more HP that maxed out rogues. Also, in an evenly geared situation, mages shield allows them to tank 1-2 combos depending on the damage and crit rate of the rogue who is shooting. Rogues on the other hand, will die from a single combo and often from a single aimed shot.

I think the reason mages are complaining is that maxed out rogues can absolutely destroy mages are aren't evenly geared, sometimes even killing them in 1 combo through their shield. I agree with them when they say that this should not be happening, even comparing a ring rogue to a mythic mage, they should be able to survive long enough to do what they do best, stunlock.

It really doesnt matter with equal skills wether the mage has the best gears. The real point here is, the classes are designed with their own strengths and weaknesses. The will function accordingly. Not all classes will be and have to be same, which is the main point here, if u are a rogue, play as a rogue.This may be a post on a hint. Theres alot of gems, especially the variety. The warrior class can literally become a ROGUE with those eyes and paras. Mages can literally crit shot with 90dex (stat point build). Guess what? These gems can actually TRANSFORM your class. Use the right gems and pooooffff done.

The point about being a mage is what i loved, is that you can insta level and control everything in pve. I once accidently in wilds saw a couple of enigmatics or skme elite farming guild ppl. All were rogues and they finished off the zone in no time. All i did was heal to give them mana....i felt really sad that 3 rogues cleared it all off, all they wanted was a supply. It didnt bother much as i know to tank as a mage... (which i usually do) but it somewhat gave me the idea as how the elite crypts are leaded.

And pvp is something like a free time Game. Capture the flag - whats actually wrong here? Yes, ill give a hint. Focus on the word "Capture", one word will answer it. This game mostly to me, looks like an adult(ish) game in parts of CTF and a few more Things. Capture the flag, just team up, capture or sneak theough and kill the opponent flaggers and advance...its that easy. Yes it will take a long time to fix this as in pvp. To be honest i myself will have to slay my ego in the first place!. I would still maintain a friendly environment. To me this game is a chill out game....

[siddhant]

Razor only lasts for five seconds. And you get two of them unscathed from the shield invulnerability so how hard is it to survive three more seconds against a rogue with two damage skills? You can and should tank until the jugg wears off, if the warrior is using that. Just swap it with ice and keep a distance, not so hard.

U know it just takes one aimed shot to kill a mage right?

[Kriticality]

U know it just takes one aimed shot to kill a mage right?

It also takes one aimed shot to kill a lot of rogues.

[siddhant]

It also takes one aimed shot to kill a lot of rogues.

Well that gives both rouges a 50%chance at killing each other whereas a mage vs rouge vs with equal gear(excluding imbued sets)chances of winning
Rouge 70%
Mage 30%
Look the point i am making is not to buff mages just to make them good in 1vs1 but to buff them to make them good in 5vs5 where it is 2rouge 2tank 1mage(lays emphasis on 1)all i am saying is give us some skills like curse which is deadly to use and affects the whole 5players on other team or just allow mages to use 5skills that will atleast balance things up.

[Bellaelda]

I'm sick of the arguments. It's been acknowledged many times that mages are the weak link. You rogues just want to continue your world domination.

[Speetz13]

The issue is the game ha pseudo-roles instead of real ones, AKA tank - healer - DPS - support/buff/CC/nameless random allaroundfourthrole like many MMOs.

Plenty get by with no role system, a totally alternative or minimized one, etc, and still have balanced (or close to/somewhat balanced) PVP but AL tries to use a 2 role/3 class weird minimized system that doesn't have a healer role or any role-dependent systems or anything, yet still requires someone to have huge amounts of armor and someone to heal that person or a guns for their pots. This creates total imbalance.

So the Sorcerer may be the most nerfed out toon in PVP but in PVE it's a dual-pseudo-role class. I know none of this completely makes sense but it's the true issue of a 3 class, pseudo 2.5-role system.

[Remiem]

Really great discussion here, guys. I appreciate the continued feedback and commentary on class balance. As you all know, we are working on a big skill system that will address a lot of the things you mention here. Things like: making each class useful in their own way for pve and pvp, promoting classes working together, etc.

I'm going to close this up before it gets more dramatic. Keep an eye out for most news as we get further down the skill system road.