Upcoming Change to Skills: Global Cool-Down

[rocket]

I support this change because 1: if that really will minimise the lag problem (i've never played this game under 300 ping and im from syndey), it will be great for this WORLDWIDE game.

This update will improve client side performance, i.e. when you are in a full group and everyone is nuking 10 mobs and you see PL slow down. It will not necessarily help your ping time. Considering you are in Sydney, for the data to travel halfway across the globe in 300 ms seems pretty remarkable to me.

This appears to be a common misconception, perhaps the Devs can elaborate further on how this update will effect ping times specifically.

I just like the idea because it will remove lag. Guys, I have a feeling that things will be better after this. They will most likely beef up skills damage to compensate for the spell timing.

So there are 12 spells, at 0.5 seconds cool down per spell, you can cast the entire spell book in 6 seconds. So you can cast 120 spells a minute, and 600 spells in 5 minutes. That still seems plenty powerful to me.

Also people are not considering the other variables involved in this. - Players normally don't cast spells while they run, and large portions of the dungeon is running. Then the other variable is the time it takes to tap a spell, lift and move your finger to another spell, and tap it. It will still be a little bit of wait since it doesn't take 0.5 seconds of a second to move a finger, but you wont be actually waiting 0.5 since there is a small delay in finger movement.

This will have a significant impact on gameplay. For example, lightning has a 3 second cool down. Let's say we are in a boss fight and I am using all my 12 skills, that means I can only effectively use my heal and lightning skills once every 6 seconds. So my healing power and lighting damage are used half as much as they used to be. This is an overly simplistic example of course but it makes the point that overall we are losing DPS and for mages, healing per second.

By the way, I normally run and cast all the time and so do most people that kite.

[Pharcyde]

@Kossi & @Pharcyde
I'll have to disagree

1: if 0.2s is the speed ppl usually tap (instead of in just dire situations), they must suffer from hyperactivity lol
My taps are 0.5s-1.0s apart, and pick up the pace when there's a big and/or threatening swarm.

2: you can't take 0.5s as a base (argumenting the falling behind).
Most of the time, you're planning your run in advance. You see the map, you know where the mob is and what you have to do, you just need to do it fast.
If you want to convince me that 0.5s is enough, do the following:

- start a raid roach, swill pitz or stronghold game.
- go to the highest concentration of mob/fire goblins (especially in the big, square rooms before the boss), try to play aggressively (stay in front of the group) while keeping a 0.5s delay among your skills. I guarantee you that the goblins will get you no matter how you plan out your skills (while keeping the simulated delay).

IF there has to ba a GC, it's 0.2s, nothing more. Then again, the devs could probably make different delays for pve and pvp.

You are forgetting one crucial variable that none of us have to make a valid roach map test.

We have no specific data to share about the cool-down periods at this time. We are testing this new system for its impact on fun-factor and will iterate on the Skills and game-balance until it feels right.

Meaning
1.) We have no clue IF they will be doing 0.5
2.) by iterate, they mean to do (something) over again or repeatedly. Not to utter again or repeatedly. Meaning that they will be adjusting mobs, skills, player attributes and any other things that are needed to make a balanced game.

[Pharcyde]

This update will improve client side performance, i.e. when you are in a full group and everyone is nuking 10 mobs and you see PL slow down. It will not necessarily help your ping time. Considering you are in Sydney, for the data to travel halfway across the globe in 300 ms seems pretty remarkable to me.

This appears to be a common misconception, perhaps the Devs can elaborate further on how this update will effect ping times specifically.




This will have a significant impact on gameplay. For example, lightning has a 3 second cool down. Let's say we are in a boss fight and I am using all my 12 skills, that means I can only effectively use my heal and lightning skills once every 6 seconds. So my healing power and lighting damage are used half as much as they used to be. This is an overly simplistic example of course but it makes the point that overall we are losing DPS and for mages, healing per second.

By the way, I normally run and cast all the time and so do most people that kite.

Yes and no, you will most likely not be having to use all 12 spells in the same order and every single time. Then your buffs take 60 seconds to reload, drain life takes 25, and I believe your debuffs take longer than 6 seconds. Trust me, you will be using heal and lightning more than once every 6 seconds.

Then what I mean by running is that in parties, often large clumps of mobs get cleared, meaning that you find yourself running for a second or so without any mobs to clear. The only dungeon I can think of that would be nonstop casting is alien oasis 3, since the concentration of mobs is so thick and aggro attraction ranges are so high.

Edit: sorry double post.

[adwin]

I can tap 10 skills in like 1.5 secs adwin... And lone is still faster

This might be a bit OT, but: what device are you playing on?
My initial reaction time averages ~200ms, with planned skill loadout a bit faster (you have 150ms)
I've played on a few devices, and not every one of them has the touch screen as responsive (mainly due to multitouch issues - most of the older devices are dual touch, not pure multitouch), meaning that not on every device the efficiency will be the same.

[Phaded]

I keep seeing it'll bring skill to pvp... Sadly it won't. all it will do is make fights longer...

Just seems like a half a'd way of fixing things instead of expanding skills or revamping some of them.

But I will say it'll finally give me a reason to quit.

[lilbyrdie]

I was about to make a long post about how bad this change is. It initially didn't seem right. But, we must make one assumption: that the developers will balance PvE for the change. Having made this game, I assume they are too smart to hose it that much.

I ran through a couple of scenarios with timings and kept coming to the same conclusion, assuming a 500ms cool down: It only affects the first ~7 seconds for a mage. And that's if the mage doesn't start with buffs. If buffs are already in effect or on their own cool-down, the effect is even less.

So, I have to assume that they'll balance the mobs so mages don't get steamrolled in the first few seconds. (Not that we don't already get steamrolled now by certain mob types (looking at you, archer mobs), but that shouldn't change.)

So, instead of blasting this change, I have a suggestion:

Instead of making a tap or click timeout, why not allow us to click at full speed to but add each skill to a visual, server-side skill queue. The skills will pop off the queue and trigger with the 500ms cool down. This has two positive changes:

1) It prevents the stated problem in PvP where the skills all go off at once. To me, that's a design flaw in the game that skills can all go off at the same time. This fixes that flaw.

2) It means when lag hits in the middle of a battle, the skills will still be queued up on the server side -- exactly like auto fire of a weapon is currently -- making brief lag disruptions much, much less of a problem.

Of course, the queue need not be unlimited in length. 6-10 queued up skills ought to be enough -- that's now 3-5 seconds. Enough to schedule out all skills, pass through medium lag dips, and be able to adjust the ordering for the next volley of skills based on those results.

If the queue was visual, a cancel queue or tap to remove queued skill might be useful in case of a mistake. Personally, I think this would take more skill to use. The order matters because of the individual skill cool downs. Double up on a drain and you'd probably need to reset the skill queue are stand there like a fool for 12 seconds.

Right now, once the initial volley is finished, I'm mostly just looking at the cool down timers and tapping them as quickly as possible when the cool down finishes. With a scheduled queue, I'd have more time to think about to think about the next move while the current queue items run their course.

Just a thought... I think it could take the solution to stated PvP issues and provide a solution to a small PvE issue (lag) while adding fun. Above all else: do not forget that this is a mobile game. A run of 5 minutes is perfect. 15-30 minutes gets too long for a coffee break game. If we can't be productive in 5 minutes, forget it. Too many users won't have time to play. Personally, I think that if the change is balanced in PvE, the time to do runs won't be affected. Let's hope that is true.

(As a side note -- the other stated issue, of client slowdowns, is not on issue on any device I play on... and I have several. Changing game rules to fix performance issues is a smoke screen, I hope, for bigger issues.)

(As a second side note -- I do not play PvP and currently have no plans to. I don't think the rules between the two should be different, though, because then it's basically two different games (unless that's the point). However, mobs have far, far more health than players and skills appear adjusted for that. Even at my low level of 37 I see some attacks hit mobs that one single-hit kill many tanks. So, I see the issues and this does seem a reasonable solution to slow it down. But that's all it will do. The kills would likely still take just as many skill clicks...)

Thanks for a great game! Keep it that way!

[Luchta]

When devs say game balance, it almost always means PvP. The difference between PvP and PvE is astronomical. I'm not that good with PvP but I love it. For me it's the only reason I go level. that's the only way I could at least par against other players who play longer hours. I may kill some but I could be killed more. Nonetheless, it's what the game balance is directed to. So please try it first then make suggestions so you would know what the devs are talking about and see the bigger picture.

[Barbamitsos]

Ty devs.... Birds are goin dooooooOoooooOoooOoOoOown

[anglfyr]

I dont like slow killing.. makes me sleepy. Im just gonna leech :/ hahaha kiddin!
Ugghh devs pls dont make this game boring. We only like pure fun, speed & action.
Dont care bout the lags.. were getting used to it.

[Pharcyde]

I dont like slow killing.. makes me sleepy. Im just gonna leech :/ hahaha kiddin!
Ugghh devs pls dont make this game boring. We only like pure fun, speed & action.
Dont care bout the lags.. were getting used to it.

It wont be slow killing, the devs are gamers too, and they understand exactly what we mean by action, speed and intensity. So they will make sure game play is still just as enjoyable, if not, even more enjoyable with a universal reduction in lag. I have a feeling that damage spells are about to get beefed up BIG time and buffs will be increased with this update.

[lUp3]

I hardly play PvP. Being a bear the starting few run ins werent successful . Please keep this global cooldown to PvP. PvE -> Strategy is fun and also makes for smarter gameplay. But you also have to take into account that most people play in random groups and that might totally defeat the purpose if they cant work as a team leading to lesser number of people trying out random games which in turn would lead to people only being in groups and lesser interaction between different 'clans'. The strategy does come into play in the elite dungeons so like Shadow caves to an extent if not played well would just be a huge pot burn. I say this as most Sewer runs are for pinks now with harder gameplay-> farming becomes harder (Only got 2 pinks till now) and after all that effort you are rewarded with nothing but an orange item :-/

Laggy gameplay is ok I can live with it but having to play each level strategizing and people ditching if things dont work out is kinda not the experience I am looking for. Keep things as they are for PvE increase difficulty and drop rate for dungeons(Also level based drops such that like in nightmare at lvl 50 is a cakewalk so lesser drops for them). IMHO

[Kindread]

There is no PvP game that allows you to fire multiple skills at once. Probably not that many PvE games either. Not trying to be a bad guy here but I think everyone's just been spoiled with the way the setup's been. When gcd is added, it'll just be a small adjustment to your play style and you'll move on. You guys haven't even seen or tried a sample of it yet and are already speculating that it will destroy PvE and increase run times by 3 to 4 times the length. It's not going to change things that much.

[Keohike]

There is no PvP game that allows you to fire multiple skills at once. Probably not that many PvE games either. Not trying to be a bad guy here but I think everyone's just been spoiled with the way the setup's been. When gcd is added, it'll just be a small adjustment to your play style and you'll move on. You guys haven't even seen or tried a sample of it yet and are already speculating that it will destroy PvE and increase run times by 3 to 4 times the length. It's not going to change things that much.

I don't even want to try it lol.
Sideways thumb up
Keohike

[shmoo]

Why not apply this to pvp only and leave pve as it is right now? This could make runs a lot longer than they are now and therefore less enjoyable. I just had a flashback when Blizzard put a global cooldown on Shaman shock spells. It wasn't fun.

This is a very good idea that is the best of both worlds. Since the main purpose of the GCD is mainly for PvP.

[Physiologic]

Did anyone even notice Cinco's update on his original post? Haven't seen any comments regarding increased skill damage to compensate for the global cool-down.

Testing Update (3.10.2011) - played (PVE only) with global cool-down times at ~0.50 seconds quite a bit this morning. Overall the combat requires significantly more skill and more strategy. As far as I'm concerned that's a really, really good thing! Right now I'm considering increases to player damage (all classes)... but it's not certain. We still have a lot more multiplayer testing to do (to discern how much damage a well-geared group can do now that we have GCD).

[Tamino]

Increasing player damage is an useful side effect - but not enough. From archer point of view a low lever mob (a BS goblin for a 50+ player, a croc for a 35+ player) needs 2 skill shots to be completely dispatched (+ one main weapon shot sometimes). With a 1/2 second between the two, one cannot clean first mob before entering in mob group range (and switching to AoE skills). It is a nightmare? No. It significantly changes playing style? Yes. More damage compensates the interval? No, unless skill damage is doubled (this would make the the boss fights too easy).

[LordEspe]

I believe the DEVs known what they are doing! I mean look what they have given us so far! They are not going to turn This gem into a plain rock! They say it's a necessary adjustment and I I'll gladly take a smooher game play! The GCD will tak place of the MULIPLE game freezes!!!! (hopefully)

I welcome this change with open thumbs!!

[Lesrider]

True, other games have spell/skill cooldowns. But those games also have passive skills and/or stronger weapons.
Like I said earlier, most games have warriors/archers mostly dependent on their weapons (and passive skills), with the active skills/buffs being something you use mostly on bosses and harder enemies. Only mages are firing off spells all the time because the drawback of being a Mage is you have crappy armor and weapons. But your spells kick butt.
But PL, especially after the "re-balance," made weapons just about useless and put all the focus on skills/spells. Not to mention, you have 12 skills/spells and they're all active. That's a lot of spells to have at your disposal without being allowed to use them. Perhaps some should be turned into passive skills then?

To get what I mean, go try playing PL without using skills and then try playing just about any other game out there without using (active) skills. The difference is astronomical. As It stands, PL is all about the skills. Unless they change it drastically, I don't see how more/longer cooldowns won't slow it down and/or cause people to stop using half their skills.

[markus]

Meah don't like the sounds of this in pve.... pvp I think it hits right but not pve for sure.

[Tengotengo]

There's a lot of individual complaints about cooldown affecting performance, but that can just be altered with gear or technique changes. The outcry for lag correction far outstrips the need for contact kills.