Best Gear set up for "Round up"

[drewcapu]

I group with couple people on "death train" ing in catacombs. about hmmm 2-3 trains then boss. I think it's best for pally or crazy mage to take this on because of heal/drain life/mana shield / hp pot etc. It's just pure mad skills you guys/rounders do what you do.

I am just a bird sitting quietly on the side line and trailing behind and setup thorn wall + Shatter + Blast shot + avian scream

I bet, if someone takes a screenshot, he/she will be the winnter of Elly's Leroy Jenkins contest =)

I tried doing a screenshot while training about 25 in stronghold on my bear (ya, I counted the red triangles. It wasn't too great a shot, but I might try again. Too bad I only use my bear to do the dailies tho.

I also tried training the beginning of stronghold on my int mage (with a tank pot). Too bad the only death on that death train was me

[kiitz]

Kiitz I greatly enjoyed doing Stronghold runs with you the other day. You are a kitting machine! Pro bear supreme!!

Hey, me too Let's do some more!

[Moogerfooger]

I group with couple people on "death train" ing in catacombs. about hmmm 2-3 trains then boss. I think it's best for pally or crazy mage to take this on because of heal/drain life/mana shield / hp pot etc. It's just pure mad skills you guys/rounders do what you do.

I am just a bird sitting quietly on the side line and trailing behind and setup thorn wall + Shatter + Blast shot + avian scream

I bet, if someone takes a screenshot, he/she will be the winnter of Elly's Leroy Jenkins contest =)

A bear with 170-180 armor and using some pots/dodge will work just fine too

I think I had about 30-40 mobs in tow, too bad I didn't have time to type Leeeeeeroy Jennnnnkinnnnns! due to pot mashing.

[Mr.Wallace]

I think the gear you wear isn't that important, cause usually I only die in two situations while roundup: First when getting stuck, but you can easily avoid this by stopping to walk straight lines and starting to dance around. And second, when the team doesn't attack when I bring them their gift wrapped mobs. To prevent this, I pick one player I've done this before with and tell the others to follow that player. When your timing is good, this way you can easily clear the map with just four big roundups, no elixirs used.

As my Stronghold gear I'm now using a cheap Plunger's set, giving enough armor to do one run with around ten health pots. Fur fun I once tried a run with my Raid Recurve set, 87 armor, in the end I had around 150 health pots, but it still worked.

[Kalielle]

Dodge helps a lot. When you get to around 150 armor I would worry about maximizing dodge from there on, and not so much about adding a bit more armor.

Health regen is also useful, even on a mage. Was rounding up with my Fury set paladin the other day and my regen was so high I didn't even need to use heal on myself a lot of the time - by the time I would have pressed it, my health was already back up.

[Moogerfooger]

Dodge helps a lot. When you get to around 150 armor I would worry about maximizing dodge from there on, and not so much about adding a bit more armor.

Health regen is also useful, even on a mage. Was rounding up with my Fury set paladin the other day and my regen was so high I didn't even need to use heal on myself a lot of the time - by the time I would have pressed it, my health was already back up.

There is a large difference between 150 and 180 armor. Tried and tested.

I also had 180 armor with 32 dodge, so I killed both birds with one stone...sure dodge could be up a bit higher, but 30+ is still solid. I also had 29 h/s.

It is either generally one or the other (very high dodge or very high armor), and since I had the high armor gear lying around, I went that route and still had decent dodge.

Pally with Fury would be (and is, have seen it) awesome for it as well

[FluffNStuff]

There is a large difference between 150 and 180 armor. Tried and tested.

I also had 180 armor with 32 dodge, so I killed both birds with one stone...sure dodge could be up a bit higher, but 30+ is still solid. I also had 29 h/s.

It is either generally one or the other (very high dodge or very high armor), and since I had the high armor gear lying around, I went that route and still had decent dodge.

Pally with Fury would be (and is, have seen it) awesome for it as well

The thing about dodge is not necessarily about survival, but for the hits to not stun you so you can keep moving. Hell scream to reduce hit percentage might also help, but not sure if you stun em, will they stop following?

[Olli Walli]

I actually learned from watching Narilover and a bear named Speedmen. Narilover is one of the best since he's a bird. His dodge is insane.

I use Fury set because of the 30 dodge I get. I think that dodge is by far the most important part so you don't get stunned. If your going to be a puller your job is just to bring the enemies to everyone. Once your back at the group you should be able to survive.

For a pally it is easy to pull due to having aeo damage. You can run in and use fireblast from a distance to agro then run away.

[Kalielle]

There is a large difference between 150 and 180 armor. Tried and tested.

I also had 180 armor with 32 dodge, so I killed both birds with one stone...sure dodge could be up a bit higher, but 30+ is still solid. I also had 29 h/s.

That's pretty sweet. Sounds like you got the best of both worlds. I'll keep in mind your observations about armor.

I was talking about going for dodge in cases where you can't get both that and armor. I saw a bear with about 180 armor but 15-20ish dodge and he seemed to be struggling much more than I was with my 155-160ish armor but dodge in the 30s. So if you do have to choose between the two, it seems 10 dodge is better than 20 armor once you already have a ton of armor.

I too found that hell scream helps a lot. It's what I use to get out if I'm stuck. Even if you stun them they keep following, they just get delayed a bit.

[Moogerfooger]

That's pretty sweet. Sounds like you got the best of both worlds. I'll keep in mind your observations about armor.

I was talking about going for dodge in cases where you can't get both that and armor. I saw a bear with about 180 armor but 15-20ish dodge and he seemed to be struggling much more than I was with my 155-160ish armor but dodge in the 30s. So if you do have to choose between the two, it seems 10 dodge is better than 20 armor once you already have a ton of armor.

I too found that hell scream helps a lot. It's what I use to get out if I'm stuck. Even if you stun them they keep following, they just get delayed a bit.

Yeah, you are correct on that. If forced to choose between 150 and 165 armor, and 15 or 25 dodge, I would go with the dodge. The toughest part of rounding up is getting stunned and getting slowed down.

Hellscream definitely helps when things start getting intense, it does stun a few into not following you briefly, but they don't seem to lose aggro and will resume chasing after a few seconds. But in those few seconds, it's a few less mobs trying to stun/hit you on your roundup, plus it helps aggro new mobs you are trying to round up.

For the record, I'm using Sewer Helm and Plate, Bodyguard Shield and Bodyguard Battle Axe to get those number, including a 1 dodge 9 armor dex ring as I am dual spec. 88% hit (marginal, but hey for this we are tanking), 32 dodge, 29 h/s, 178 DPS, 180 armor.

I usually run with a Rooter's sword to up hit to 94%, because below 90% taunts and beckons seem to miss a lot more often. But for roundup purposes, I will quickly switch to a Bodyguard weapon for the added armor and +4 dodge momentarily.

[Ellyidol]

I finally tried rounding up the other day, Phys, Swedishmike, Ariylana (sorry if I got spelling wrong), and Mits (? not too sure on last member) and I went on Stronghold runs.

Based on a few runs observation, I did speed/armour elixirs. Speed was definitely worth the 1.5k, self explanatory. The armour pot though, it seemed that it didn't even work at times. The speed almost just bypasses your armour pot since most of the time the mobs are actually following rather than attacking, and when they do attack, my dodge takes care of most just in time for group to wipe them out.

So yeah, tricky balance it is, dodge and armour. I would honestly prefer dodge, for both reasons of receiving no damage at all and avoiding those "stun" attacks. Although a decent armour value shouldn't be forgotten either - those bird mob's blast shots/break armour is what brings me close to dying the most.

As for Hell Scream, I sometimes use it as an alternate aggro-setter when Taunt is on cooldown, but not the best since it mini-stuns them in place and actually makes it a bit slower to round them up. Taunt still works best, no doubt.

Overall its one of the funnest things I've tried on my bear lately. Though I only seem to use it for maps 1/2, maps 3/4 I still stick to dex bear/damage pot since those mobs can actually group-wipe if you try to round them up.

[WhoIsThis]

After observing several bears, I'd say the following:

1. Armor doesn't seem to be that important. Only the bandit boy birds can really harm you. Armor pot doesn't seem to significantly improve survivability either.

2. Speed is very important as is having direction. Go straight and if necessary, the bear should save up their stomp for when they are completely surrounded.

3. What to wear? Whatever maxes out dodge for the helm and armor (come to think of it - what gear has the best dodge?).

4. Agree to where you will rendezvous with the team before you begin. At least 2 instances I've seen people die because there have been miscommunications. Indicate where people should wait as well.

5. Immediately after the bear reaches the location, it's critical that the team quickly back the bear up. This is best done in a place far enough from vents to avoid any casualties there and where there is a wall to beckon and stomp with. If there is any disagreement, there's a good chance that the bear will likely die.

6. Make sure that there is at least one int mage who is reasonably well experienced in the party - once they nuke, any survivors will concentrate fire on the mage. Ideally one bird should also go in advance to cast thorn wall, although timing is tough. Be careful about doing roundups with PUGs.

[Moogerfooger]

Re:1, the bear mobs with daggers will put a hurting on you VERY quickly if there are a lot of them right on you. Have discovered the hard way more than once.

Overall, still not sure if it is more time-effective on the large roundups....you just end up with a huge mob that even a good nuking crew takes several moments to clear due to skill cooldown, where just running it normally and nuking as you go and having no "rest of party" waiting time would be close to same speed. I timed a couple of Stronghold runs, and although not precise, it was pretty close on time.

[kiitz]

Thats a good point actually... It feels faster, but maybe thats just because you are only doing 3-4 pulls and getting to the boss, but there are a lot of other factors too:

1. Waiting for a full party (or close to a full party) instead of starting to clear when there are only 3 ppl on
2. The (very) occasional wipe will probably make the entire overall run slower than a regular wipe without

The more I think about it though - doing round ups does have other advantages

1. Fighting in an area that doesn't have fire grates. I think this is the biggest thing about doing a round up in the backroom on Stronghold. No fire grates to be accidentally set off to kill someone

2. Its more fun and it feels like there is more synergy between everyone in the party. Especially with the wide open rooms (first room in Stronghold) its kind of annoying to beckon like 2 mobs against the wall and see someone blow their abilities to kill 1-2 mobs at a time.

[WhoIsThis]

Overall, still not sure if it is more time-effective on the large roundups....you just end up with a huge mob that even a good nuking crew takes several moments to clear due to skill cooldown, where just running it normally and nuking as you go and having no "rest of party" waiting time would be close to same speed. I timed a couple of Stronghold runs, and although not precise, it was pretty close on time.

No more than 25 I'd say for most teams. On the other hand .... ever go on a party with a bear, a bird, and 3 pure ints?

[Subterraneous]

I actually learned from watching Narilover and a bear named Speedmen. Narilover is one of the best since he's a bird. His dodge is insane.

I use Fury set because of the 30 dodge I get. I think that dodge is by far the most important part so you don't get stunned. If your going to be a puller your job is just to bring the enemies to everyone. Once your back at the group you should be able to survive.

For a pally it is easy to pull due to having aeo damage. You can run in and use fireblast from a distance to agro then run away.

I give props to Olli and Narilover - I did runs with them on a few nights while playing with my archer, Predadactyl, and re-tooled my alt. mage to mimic their playstyles. I now have a pretty good handle on how to pull all the maps using the "train and herd" method and only die if I get some unwanted lag or the occasional fire trap I eat unexpectedly. I do die on occasion but rarely from mobs. For each map, I try to boil it down into a series of kill zones and will bring as large of mob as I think my group can handle (presuming my ping is OK, then I may need to taper back). For example on Stronghold:

1. Room #1. (20-25)
2. Drusila's room + mob of 5 out front. (12)
3. I run through other side and pull 3 mobs to second barrel area.
(This is where I rely on someone in the group to know the meeting point and the importance of getting to a spot quickly to help take the train down. Pulling much further beyond this point will cause part of the mobs to run back to their spot).

4. 3-4 mobs from area past the three consecutive fire traps.
5. 3-4 mobs from top half of the same area.
6. train remaining mobs together before you get to the boss.

I go into this map with 6 kill zones in mind. If I have a good group, I look to better package the kill zones together in areas 4+5 to go through the map faster. I think this offers for a fast run and maximal XP gain through the Stronghold map since you kill all but 4 enemies (near Drusila) after the bosses are dead. I usually don't get complaints about Drusila since this is literally a 30-second diversion -- if it took longer I wouldn't do it. When I get to the kill zone, I drop an ice storm and freeze them into place for Blast Shot and Firestorm damage from the group.

I try to have a similar plan for each map and take pride that my groups rarely stop to fight (outside of bosses)...it's a running melee throughout each map where AoE skills get maximum damage by herding the cattle up. I find this playstyle to be more entertaining in the monotous grind to 56.

Sub

[neko]

I go into this map with 6 kill zones in mind. If I have a good group, I look to better package the kill zones together in areas 4+5 to go through the map faster. I think this offers for a fast run and maximal XP gain through the Stronghold map since you kill all but 4 enemies (near Drusila) after the bosses are dead. I usually don't get complaints about Drusila since this is literally a 30-second diversion -- if it took longer I wouldn't do it. When I get to the kill zone, I drop an ice storm and freeze them into place for Blast Shot and Firestorm damage from the group.

I try to have a similar plan for each map and take pride that my groups rarely stop to fight (outside of bosses)...it's a running melee throughout each map where AoE skills get maximum damage by herding the cattle up. I find this playstyle to be more entertaining in the monotous grind to 56.

Sub

How many health pots do you find you'll need to burn with your Pally? I haven't tried it, yet, with mine (I'm rusty with my mage) but in the past with my bear I'd burn 20-30+ depending on the group.

[krazii]

Gear is right on! (Royal Plate/Helm, Fury Sword/Shield)

There is a bit of strategy to consider in how you use your skills. First make sure you get mage buffs (BoM and BoV)! I usually use no skills until I'm about a third of the way around, then I beckon and stomp, move till just after halfway, then use iron blood, taunt, evade, hell scream and crushing blow. This generally scatters the first half of mobs and prepares me for the other half. By the time I'm back, the "stomped" mobs have returned along with the rest. My goal is to make it around without use of a single pot and if you have a heads up mage(s), they will be there when your coming in to start tossing you heals.

Note: I've played around with when to use skills and these seem to be my favored, but I'd be interested to know how others use their skills, I'm generally a step behind the rest cause of my old age! (shush Kaley! and you too Elly!)

Of course this doesn't apply to pallys, but I'm guessing they use their skills to accomplish a simliar goal. I bet ice storm and freeze are especially helpful.

Kraz

[Subterraneous]

How many health pots do you find you'll need to burn with your Pally? I haven't tried it, yet, with mine (I'm rusty with my mage) but in the past with my bear I'd burn 20-30+ depending on the group.

Hmm, maybe 5-10 health pots per map. In Stronghold, I usually need to eat 2-3 health pots in that first room and sometimes when I pull around the bend and the party isn't yet in the spot they need to be. Other than that, heal and an occasional lifesteal spell is all I need. I also like hosting the group for the mear fact I feel I should get to harvest pots if I'm doing the corralling. This strategy will save you money/time for supplying Anichelith.

[Elitephonix]

Hmmm dont no when this was posteed but i suggest royal armor"amout of armor it gives" fury helm"for the mana regan" fort sword"for max damage" and bellows shield"for the dodge and crit"