We want mythics and crafting based on time spent NOT LUCK

[Edward Coug]

*sigh* Very bad idea...

If you guaranteed a reward of say a 100 runs not only will it take the thrill out of AL but it will propagate botting at a scale where instead of people complaining about the luck system of AL we will see threads based on "ban Xxxxxx he was botting".

The problem here lies in the luck system not the loot system. Guaranteeing the "drop" will not only make it unfarmable but also dull. The drop/loot system needs to be looked into; that is what we should be trying to get changed or at least get STS to reveal. Won't it be nice to know how many runs at an average we need to run to drop something like recipe? So that poor noobs like me know how much money I'll be spending to drop something like a recipe(which I have yet to receive but I ain't complaining). I ran over 400 worth fragments of planar tombs without seeing a single chest. This was when we could scale and a few runs here and there without scaling. Then STS introduced the amazeballs arlorian ring and I decided to use this 40-55% loot chance at tombs and I've looted 10chests since the introduction of the arlorian ring(which, seeing as I do 3-9 runs a day is decent enough). Then all those hours running planar tombs without getting a single decent drop was worth it. From 0 chests in 150+ runs to 10 in 50(probably less, looted double chests TWO TIMES).

Guaranteeing rewards is a bad bad bad idea, takes the thrill out of the farming, makes bottling feasible and ensures prices are low and remain low(need to have basis).

After all its not the destination its the journey that matters.

I don't think botting has ever been a problem in the more difficult maps. I'd be very surprised if someone could design a bot that could get through planar.

[Sorcerie]

Yeah... No second best for hard earned items... They should be same whether u get lucky or work your hiney off for it

At the most maybe different colors, but same stats n bonus

I like the idea of perhaps giving them different colors or effects, to kinda show off some diversity in the visuals dept of mythic items.

[Kyle Holmes]

I don't think botting has ever been a problem in the more difficult maps. I'd be very surprised if someone could design a bot that could get through planar.

People that use macros should be classed as botting, why should they get the pleasure of auto pot, whilst others have to either stop attacking or stop moving to pot

sent from fritters beak

[Serancha]

People that use macros should be classed as botting, why should they get the pleasure of auto pot, whilst others have to either stop attacking or stop moving to pot

sent from fritters beak

I don't believe autopotting is a big enough issue to count as a concern. It doesn't give you any real advantage. I don't get why anyone would waste the time. I hold multiple speed records and my teams don't use macros, to my knowledge. When you run with someone a lot, usually they mention something like that.

In any case, as someone else said, "actual" botting is not a concern as long as the items only drop in the new elite maps.

[Remiem]

Wow, thank you everyone. There is so much good feedback in this thread and it is all incredibly valuable going into the next expansion. The devs all have their eyes on it and we'll be discussing how we can incorporate your feedback into future content. We definitely understand where you're coming from. It's nice knowing that you're working toward something, rather than just crossing your fingers at the end of each run. More info on the new craftable items will be available closer to expansion release.

[regizakirs.rs]

*sigh* Very bad idea...

If you guaranteed a reward of say a 100 runs not only will it take the thrill out of AL but it will propagate botting at a scale where instead of people complaining about the luck system of AL we will see threads based on "ban Xxxxxx he was botting".

The problem here lies in the luck system not the loot system. Guaranteeing the "drop" will not only make it unfarmable but also dull. The drop/loot system needs to be looked into; that is what we should be trying to get changed or at least get STS to reveal. Won't it be nice to know how many runs at an average we need to run to drop something like recipe? So that poor noobs like me know how much money I'll be spending to drop something like a recipe(which I have yet to receive but I ain't complaining). I ran over 400 worth fragments of planar tombs without seeing a single chest. This was when we could scale and a few runs here and there without scaling. Then STS introduced the amazeballs arlorian ring and I decided to use this 40-55% loot chance at tombs and I've looted 10chests since the introduction of the arlorian ring(which, seeing as I do 3-9 runs a day is decent enough). Then all those hours running planar tombs without getting a single decent drop was worth it. From 0 chests in 150+ runs to 10 in 50(probably less, looted double chests TWO TIMES).

Guaranteeing rewards is a bad bad bad idea, takes the thrill out of the farming, makes bottling feasible and ensures prices are low and remain low(need to have basis).

After all its not the destination its the journey that matters.

I see your point and I agree to an extent with you. But how many people do you think are willing to put in the grind to get the guaranteed items? Only a select player base will put in the time necessary for it. The truly dedicated few.

[Marilyn]

Very well said.

I've tried both strategies... Spent tonsss of money on plat and opening crates as well as grinding and farming for hours and months yet no big pay off. It's discouraging really... However, I love AL and genuinely want to see improvements as I intend to continue playing for a very long time. I don't mind putting in work and grinding hard but there needs to be a reward that's not luck based. Also, plat is supposed to be the easy way to accomplish things since we are paying real money to short cut and that doesn't work either (I've had better luck selling locked crates then opening hundreds of them).. I also remember spending 1100 plat on pet crates and still didn't get foxy -.- smh

Ty sts for taking this into consideration as it would make the majority of players much happier knowing there's a payoff by putting in work as opposed to right now where we simply may or may not get lucky...

[GoodSyntax]

Crafting Materials
I would love to see Drakin Teeth and Planar Fragment essences used as the currency for the Legendary item crafting materials. The reason for this is because it is important to spread the focus of farmers across multiple season maps. The reason why Planar weapons are worthless is because (outside of arena), the only items with any real value are Planar Chests, so EVERYONE flocks to these maps for farming. Bring some value back into these older maps; that way, the value of drops in the new maps do not decay so quickly.

Frankly, I would also like to see additional currencies added for Nordr and Shuyal; whether they are in the form of "boss essences", tokens, or whatever, the point is to spread the farming activity around, and encourage people to run more maps than just the most current season.

It would be really nice to have currencies from Nordr, Shuyal, Tindirin, Planar Tombs and the new maps needed to create all of the crafting material!

I think most players would agree that they don't mind the grind if there is a surefire item that rewards the work. Even if the requirements seem a bit steep (like 100 Ashral Heart essences) to create just one of the numerous crafting items, at least, players who can not/will not farm the newer maps have a potential revenue stream from the crafting material of Nordr and Shuyal.

Crafting the Legendary Items
Once the required materials are in hand, players can craft the Legendary items. These should be comparable to Imbued as far as stats go.

Like Icescale sets, I would like to see a small set bonus (like +30 primary stat). This way, there is an incentive to complete the set (thus requiring crafting material in volume).

This type of craft, then refine system has long term value and, unlike the fast bottoming out of the market on the new items, will provide players with reliable revenue for quite some time.


Crafting the Mythic Items
Much as the lv26/lv31 Mythic items (which still hold very good value by the way) are the basis for the "upgraded" Mythics; these new Mythic sets should operate the same way. A Legendary item is needed to craft the Mythic counterpart.

Individually, the Mythic version should only be SLIGHTLY better than the Legendary item....perhaps +5 Primary stat.

BUT, the set bonus for a full Mythic set should very potent. Something like +30 to STR, DEX and INT. Beyond the 3 stat bonus, some kind of passive (or proc) would be a very nice addition. I imagine something like the HP+Mana passive from Samael as a very good candidate for the Mythic set bonus passive.

So, a player without the entire Mythic set would be marginally better until the set is completed. The reason for this is to keep demand of the Legendary items AND the crafting materials high, providing farmers with a long-term revenue source.


The Luck Factor
Obviously, luck should play some part in the game. But, unlike the way it operates now, where if you don't seem to be that lucky, then you are stuck, I think luck should be nothing more than a shortcut. So, you can work hard and EARN the Legendary and/or Mythic set, or you can get lucky and loot one of the pieces from an arena chest, boss drop or locked crate. Luck shouldn't be the only way to max out!

Luck (or lack thereof) has been a major sticking point for many hardcore players. As long as platfarming and other cheats exist, the value of hard work decreases. We are now at a point where, from a return point of view, 2-3 hours a day is better spent cheating the game than actually playing it. There really is no reason why so many elements of this game discourages you from actually playing it. Whether it is merching, popping locked crates, buying pet crates, selling elixir kits/ankh, etc., the obvious focus is on separating you from your plat (and therefore cash) for a "shortcut" to riches. This is a distraction and a point of contention for many, many players. Most people I know don't mind working hard to get what they want. But if hard work never seems to be rewarded, while those that don't really engage in the game (or worse exploit it) get all the riches, then it is this quiet, dedicated base that will become disillusioned and eventually leave.

Luck has a place, and while Locked Crates are, I guess, a necessary evil, the real place for luck should be within the context of the game and it should only serve as a shortcut that eliminates countless hours of grinding. It SHOULD NOT be the only means to get what we all know we have been asking for.

Same goes for platinum in general. I loved how the Egg rings were implemented. You could take the platinum shortcut and buy yourself one (saving the dudgery of farming and crafting golden eggs) or suck it up, deal with the grind and earn the ring. BUT, the point I appreciated the most is that if you take the shortcut, it is bound to your toon; whereas those that worked for it received a tradeable version instead. The shortcut, in this case, was a fair compromise, since the hard work will still have value, even when the usefulness of the item has passed.

[Littlegroot]

I don't believe autopotting is a big enough issue to count as a concern. It doesn't give you any real advantage. I don't get why anyone would waste the time. I hold multiple speed records and my teams don't use macros, to my knowledge. When you run with someone a lot, usually they mention something like that.

In any case, as someone else said, "actual" botting is not a concern as long as the items only drop in the new elite maps.

Are you very certain? This is a very sensitive topic

[regizakirs.rs]

Crafting Materials
I would love to see Drakin Teeth and Planar Fragment essences used as the currency for the Legendary item crafting materials. The reason for this is because it is important to spread the focus of farmers across multiple season maps. The reason why Planar weapons are worthless is because (outside of arena), the only items with any real value are Planar Chests, so EVERYONE flocks to these maps for farming. Bring some value back into these older maps; that way, the value of drops in the new maps do not decay so quickly.

Frankly, I would also like to see additional currencies added for Nordr and Shuyal; whether they are in the form of "boss essences", tokens, or whatever, the point is to spread the farming activity around, and encourage people to run more maps than just the most current season.

It would be really nice to have currencies from Nordr, Shuyal, Tindirin, Planar Tombs and the new maps needed to create all of the crafting material!

I think most players would agree that they don't mind the grind if there is a surefire item that rewards the work. Even if the requirements seem a bit steep (like 100 Ashral Heart essences) to create just one of the numerous crafting items, at least, players who can not/will not farm the newer maps have a potential revenue stream from the crafting material of Nordr and Shuyal.

Crafting the Legendary Items
Once the required materials are in hand, players can craft the Legendary items. These should be comparable to Imbued as far as stats go.

Like Icescale sets, I would like to see a small set bonus (like +30 primary stat). This way, there is an incentive to complete the set (thus requiring crafting material in volume).

This type of craft, then refine system has long term value and, unlike the fast bottoming out of the market on the new items, will provide players with reliable revenue for quite some time.


Crafting the Mythic Items
Much as the lv26/lv31 Mythic items (which still hold very good value by the way) are the basis for the "upgraded" Mythics; these new Mythic sets should operate the same way. A Legendary item is needed to craft the Mythic counterpart.

Individually, the Mythic version should only be SLIGHTLY better than the Legendary item....perhaps +5 Primary stat.

BUT, the set bonus for a full Mythic set should very potent. Something like +30 to STR, DEX and INT. Beyond the 3 stat bonus, some kind of passive (or proc) would be a very nice addition. I imagine something like the HP+Mana passive from Samael as a very good candidate for the Mythic set bonus passive.

So, a player without the entire Mythic set would be marginally better until the set is completed. The reason for this is to keep demand of the Legendary items AND the crafting materials high, providing farmers with a long-term revenue source.


The Luck Factor
Obviously, luck should play some part in the game. But, unlike the way it operates now, where if you don't seem to be that lucky, then you are stuck, I think luck should be nothing more than a shortcut. So, you can work hard and EARN the Legendary and/or Mythic set, or you can get lucky and loot one of the pieces from an arena chest, boss drop or locked crate. Luck shouldn't be the only way to max out!

Luck (or lack thereof) has been a major sticking point for many hardcore players. As long as platfarming and other cheats exist, the value of hard work decreases. We are now at a point where, from a return point of view, 2-3 hours a day is better spent cheating the game than actually playing it. There really is no reason why so many elements of this game discourages you from actually playing it. Whether it is merching, popping locked crates, buying pet crates, selling elixir kits/ankh, etc., the obvious focus is on separating you from your plat (and therefore cash) for a "shortcut" to riches. This is a distraction and a point of contention for many, many players. Most people I know don't mind working hard to get what they want. But if hard work never seems to be rewarded, while those that don't really engage in the game (or worse exploit it) get all the riches, then it is this quiet, dedicated base that will become disillusioned and eventually leave.

Luck has a place, and while Locked Crates are, I guess, a necessary evil, the real place for luck should be within the context of the game and it should only serve as a shortcut that eliminates countless hours of grinding. It SHOULD NOT be the only means to get what we all know we have been asking for.

Same goes for platinum in general. I loved how the Egg rings were implemented. You could take the platinum shortcut and buy yourself one (saving the dudgery of farming and crafting golden eggs) or suck it up, deal with the grind and earn the ring. BUT, the point I appreciated the most is that if you take the shortcut, it is bound to your toon; whereas those that worked for it received a tradeable version instead. The shortcut, in this case, was a fair compromise, since the hard work will still have value, even when the usefulness of the item has passed.

I'm out of thanks but, you definitely get one for this. And I know it's off topic but, play taichi panda awesome game. I have epic gear and legendary gear already! No crate opening or luck factor!

[Littlegroot]

Wow, thank you everyone. There is so much good feedback in this thread and it is all incredibly valuable going into the next expansion. The devs all have their eyes on it and we'll be discussing how we can incorporate your feedback into future content. We definitely understand where you're coming from. It's nice knowing that you're working toward something, rather than just crossing your fingers at the end of each run. More info on the new craftable items will be available closer to expansion release.

What you guys in the management are doing for AL at present is working out fine for STS. Continue on what you guys have been doing, it's the right way for the company to grow.
Gambling and luck is always needed to get rare and good items. If it's easily available to the players, how is STS gonna survive in their total revenue from AL?
A drop of more than 50% revenue? My guess is about 75% drop of revenue.

The company needs a workable business model for STS to remain competitive with their other rivals in the mobile gaming industry.

Thumbs up to you guys
And I hope the players of AL will understand without realistic revenue/earnings from AL it will not have more updates or the game might not survive for many good years to come.

[GoodSyntax]

I'm out of thanks but, you definitely get one for this. And I know it's off topic but, play taichi panda awesome game. I have epic gear and legendary gear already! No crate opening or luck factor!

I've been dabbling with Taichi Panda now that I've retired. It's OK.....AL, from a gameplay perspective, is still superior, but there are some pieces to Taichi Panda that are much, much better than AL. At the end of the day though, it's the luck system and over-reliance on plat that has finally pushed me out for good.

I've also tried Kritika, but came away unimpressed after many, many hours of grinding. Order and Chaos is just a bore and feels ancient.

To be honest, I LOVE AL, but HATE what it has become. I wouldn't still lurk in the forums here if I didn't enjoy so much of what AL has to offer.

[Sorcerie]

Once sgain Kali comes in, keeps it 100, and makes it abundantly clear as to what we want to see ingame.

Heres to another quality post, and as always, a thanks.

[Littlegroot]

I mean be realistic.
It's a free to play game.
You want good rare solid items, spend real money on platinums and try your luck.
How will you expect a company to survive and grow larger if everything is easy and free of charge.
Won't all players be equally good with the same good gears?

Where's the challenge where the fun in the game?
The company hires staffs and pay their wages.
What is the company monthly operating costs?
How is the total annual operating cost for STS?

All these are free of charge? Be sensible and look forward to what STS can bring out from their pockets to AL new expansion.
If you're unhappy with the game, by all means leave.
They are many other new players the company is able to attract which will bring in more revenues.

[regizakirs.rs]

I've been dabbling with Taichi Panda now that I've retired. It's OK.....AL, from a gameplay perspective, is still superior, but there are some pieces to Taichi Panda that are much, much better than AL. At the end of the day though, it's the luck system and over-reliance on plat that has finally pushed me out for good.

I've also tried Kritika, but came away unimpressed after many, many hours of grinding. Order and Chaos is just a bore and feels ancient.

To be honest, I LOVE AL, but HATE what it has become. I wouldn't still lurk in the forums here if I didn't enjoy so much of what AL has to offer.

#keeping it real
I agree with you and I hate you retired. You were by far one of my favorite players and greatest influence on me in AL! I hate to see that you retired but I respect your decision and I totally understand it!

[Avaree]

So many great ideas, thumbs up to several posts, I'm out of thanks.

[regizakirs.rs]

I mean be realistic.
It's a free to play game.
You want good rare solid items, spend real money on platinums and try your luck.
How will you expect a company to survive and grow larger if everything is easy and free of charge.
Won't all players be equally good with the same good gears?

Where's the challenge where the fun in the game?
The company hires staffs and pay their wages.
What is the company monthly operating costs?
How is the total annual operating cost for STS?

All these are free of charge? Be sensible and look forward to what STS can bring out from their pockets to AL new expansion.
If you're unhappy with the game, by all means leave.
They are many other new players the company is able to attract which will bring in more revenues.

You are totally missing the point here. People have spent 1,000 of dollars to get rare items only to come away empty handed. People have worked there butts off to no end too see that they weren't rewarded for there hardwork. That's what drives people away. We all get that STS has to make money also but, it's like your punishing the player base. I've ran arena until nearly broke. The items that drop from the chest are worthless cause the market is flooded with them cause the arena and tombs are the only place that any viable loot. Locks have plummeted and eggs are a joke now cause everyone either has them or they have farmed them to no end.

[HotttSauce]

What you guys in the management are doing for AL at present is working out fine for STS. Continue on what you guys have been doing, it's the right way for the company to grow.
Gambling and luck is always needed to get rare and good items. If it's easily available to the players, how is STS gonna survive in their total revenue from AL?
A drop of more than 50% revenue? My guess is about 75% drop of revenue.

The company needs a workable business model for STS to remain competitive with their other rivals in the mobile gaming industry.

Thumbs up to you guys
And I hope the players of AL will understand without realistic revenue/earnings from AL it will not have more updates or the game might not survive for many good years to come.

Or take the flip side of this statement.

Customers (the AL/STS player base) decide to spend their money else where, like you've said there's other competition. Like in normal business the better offers attract the consumer. That's why many businesses fail when they ignore the wants of the consumer, try to squeeze out every penny but lose the quality. Your statement is partially correct, that yes STS is a company and has to provide for it's employees. BUT what it seems you miss is the point that, "Who fuels by portion of the revenue STS receives?" ITS THE SAME PLAYER BASE THAT HAS VOICED THESE CONCERNS.

I hope you understand with the continued lose of a paying (ie; purchasing low/huge amount of plat) player/consumer base, there's a huge deficit in earnings. Business (STS/STG) NEED their consumer, their patrons to survive, it's not the other way around. You truly grow a business by increasing your client base PERIOD. What usually happens when business, gaming companies place their wants/needs before their consumers is that their consumer end up going elsewhere.

I've managed a small business for many years and business grow by word of mouth, repeat customers, a good reputation, a great product etc; If you gain LOYAL consumers/customers, you rarely have to worry about them leaving for the competition. "AND THATS EXACTLY what this thread/topic represents" MANY MANY Loyal customers/gamers expressing their disdain for a huge aspect of the game, and trying to make a Great effort to let the game/devs/sts they've grown to appreciate, enjoy & love know... before people decide enough is enough & go elsewhere.

I'm sure you've heard of the popular term, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" It's a great business model as well as personal moral.

[Oursizes]

I mean be realistic.
It's a free to play game.
You want good rare solid items, spend real money on platinums and try your luck.
How will you expect a company to survive and grow larger if everything is easy and free of charge.
Won't all players be equally good with the same good gears?

Where's the challenge where the fun in the game?
The company hires staffs and pay their wages.
What is the company monthly operating costs?
How is the total annual operating cost for STS?

All these are free of charge? Be sensible and look forward to what STS can bring out from their pockets to AL new expansion.
If you're unhappy with the game, by all means leave.
They are many other new players the company is able to attract which will bring in more revenues.

Is this the first MMO you've ever played? Most MMOs have a shortcut to being rich, and a way to get rich by grinding. Sts is purely dependent on random number generators. You want people to spend thousands on electric currency which may not even do any good for them? Mind you there's also those who cannot afford to shell out $1000 a week on a game, because they have bills to pay and families to take care of, or tuition to pay off. Instead of seeing it from your viewpoint, which I assume by the way you type, you have a lot of money, see it from the viewpoint who doesn't have a ton of money to spare. They're going to want a chance to compete with the rich, not just wander in pink sets all the time..

[regizakirs.rs]

Or take the flip side of this statement.

Customers (the AL/STS player base) decide to spend their money else where, like you've said there's other competition. Like in normal business the better offers attract the consumer. That's why many businesses fail when they ignore the wants of the consumer, try to squeeze out every penny but lose the quality. Your statement is partially correct, that yes STS is a company and has to provide for it's employees. BUT what it seems you miss is the point that, "Who fuels by portion of the revenue STS receives?" ITS THE SAME PLAYER BASE THAT HAS VOICED THESE CONCERNS.

I hope you understand with the continued lose of a paying (ie; purchasing low/huge amount of plat) player/consumer base, there's a huge deficit in earnings. Business (STS/STG) NEED their consumer, their patrons to survive, it's not the other way around. You truly grow a business by increasing your client base PERIOD. What usually happens when business, gaming companies place their wants/needs before their consumers is that their consumer end up going elsewhere.

I've managed a small business for many years and business grow by word of mouth, repeat customers, a good reputation, a great product etc; If you gain LOYAL consumers/customers, you rarely have to worry about them leaving for the competition. "AND THATS EXACTLY what this thread/topic represents" MANY MANY Loyal customers/gamers expressing their disdain for a huge aspect of the game, and trying to make a Great effort to let the game/devs/sts they've grown to appreciate, enjoy & love know... before people decide enough is enough & go elsewhere.

I'm sure you've heard of the popular term, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" It's a great business model as well as personal moral.

:truthfulness: