I tried Tai Chi Panda... It's really cool.
I tried Tai Chi Panda... It's really cool.
Another good example is a game like Hay Day. For $5 you can hire a little guy that will go and get you items of your choice. You can choose different items every 2 hours for 10 days straight. That kind of thing is a guaranteed benefit for your dollar. There's no gambling involved. The more you log in, the more you get from what you spent. It's a no-brainer. It is also not game-changing, so it doesn't require you to spend that $5 to be successful, it just makes things a bit easier.
That's the concept that STS advertised originally. If you work hard you will be able to get everything in this game. If you want to get it a bit faster / easier, you can spend plat to do so.
The model changed some time in the last year or so, to the point where in order to succeed you have to either spend thousands of real dollars with no guaranteed return, cheat, or have luck with the RNG. I am not in a position to do the first, refuse to do the second, and obviously fail at the third, meaning I'm effectively screwed.
Back to the original point, though. I would happily do 500 runs to obtain a crafting ingredient for an item, if I was guaranteed to do so. With a season being a year long, that could even be 1000 runs - as long as it was the same for everyone. This luck system may have worked in the past, but as STS increases item rarities, that same luck system turns into a big failure. You have "lucky" people looting multiple recipes and rich people opening hundreds of chests for imbueds, and everyone else spends fortunes for nothing.
Well said, and I agree. I recently purchased the adventure's pack with perma XP and kind of regret it if the path of AL keeps going towards luck based. Golden cupid wings was a perfect example of how we should have been able to trade them in for our class as well.
I spent 250,000 gold to buy that "useless" relic that allowed me to loot the essences from arena and you know what? It was a complete waste because I didn't loot nor did I see anyone loot the recipie in over 600 runs. Those runs were not self sustaining and it drains you in gold quite substantially. Drakin teeth was a nice system in which we could trade in, but I rather have a kill counter like the daily quests of nordr in order to loot the items we're seeking the most than this luck system. Some have looted more than one recipe and that's just kicking everyone else who's down on their luck.
If the cost to run elites is greater than the loot reward, why run?
Last edited by Kakashis; 04-28-2015 at 05:30 PM.
IGN: Kakashi <Deviant Misfits> - We run PVE!
I would like to see a combination of luck and work really hard:
Work really hard (farm 1500 arena kills, see an NPC, and get a recipe) in addition to the luck-based system. I have had pretty good luck with the luck-based system; I can see that when I do not have something, it's because I have not put any effort into it. I am aware though that there are players putting in a lot of effort and not getting any results.
It'd be good to see both systems in place: a token/kill/counting system to turn in for very rare items, thus rewarding effort and time, as well as getting those items through luck in chests/crates.
There are pieces of this double system in place already. It needs to be more consistent and applied throughout the game.
Star light, star bright...
Knowing STS and their hunger for money, they will probably place the ingredients for these "craftable" armors in locked crates, as they place all the good things in there. Its better to lower our expectations from STS to less than dirt, so that way when they do screw up their own game again, we won't be as disappointed. And I'm sure a mod/admin will say I'm talking down on STS. Well, no I'm not. Im just saying what is more than likely to occur in the new expansion, the gap between poor and rich gets larger, and only the "lucky few" make gold from this. 95% of players will quit this game then.
I very much agree with everything Candy said. Speaking as a player who finally looted the ever elusive recipe just yesterday,after nearly 1100 runs and having to had buy mine instead of farming it, the current system is far to dependent on luck. However, without the element of luck, farming would be slightly boring. What I suggest is to give players a fixed amount of currency or runs to pay to an npc for the required crafting ingredient, as well as making it a lucky drop from either bosses or arena chest, with a reasonable rarity. When I say reasonable rarity, I mean someone between the odds of looting recipe and tomb chest, but considerably closer to the rarity of tomb chest. Maybe something like the odds of looting 2 legendaries from planar tomb 3 in a single run.
Additionally, the new mythics SHOULD NOT be a must have to compete. They should be better than imbued sets of course, but the difference should not be game changing. Something along the lines of 300 health, 100-150 mana, 2-3% crit, 100-150 armor and 10-15 damage (for a rogue) would be ideal. The complete set bonus (I approximate it will be around 25 primary or something) is not included in this. DON'T REPEAT THE NEKRO FIASCO STS.
It would be kinda cool to be sure that you'll loot the mytic gear... but...
When expansion will be released, we will all reach the cap level pretty quick. We will farm the new campain for some decent new legendary gear. Then STS will unlock the elite maps etc. The problem with a stable loot system is that people will farm it too easily. Let me explain myself: I can join the highest PvE guilds and we will all start farming those runs. 1000 runs right? no problem, we can easily gather a team of 4 people (since it's new expansion, a lot more people restart playing AL), and start farming it for a month, 2 months, 3 months. After 3 months, 75% of the people already own the mythic gear, and you just feel like farming it again and sell the gear... but , oh yeah, most people own it already so the value drops really low... and you're bored again (even more bored then now because you did the same map 30times a day for the past 3 months). You can start PvP but 75% of the people own the same armor, so it's all based on the weapon and the noobs with the ring and the skills and lag. Game death.
Take for example the dragonitge bar. when 2x dragkin cameout, the value of the bar drastically dropped from 2,3m to... well nobody buys it at 1,3m. I am pretty sure that the value of the bar was higher at Tindirin release.
If there is no luck in this, the game will end too quickly. I don't know if the ingredients or the full armor parts will be found in locked crates, but I believe that farming must have a higher success rate then locked. In other words, if the ingredients drop in locked and Elite goldens, then the Elite golden chests will have a higher drop rate then the locked (2-3x more). This way, STS gets their profits from Locked crates gambling (because there are other stuff then mythic gear), and the farmers get their gear from their hard work. Remember that there is not only mythic gear in the Elite chests, but also good legendaries so it's a very good deal.
Don't consider me against you. I just wanted to bring something good to the discussion. We're not trying to prove to STS that you're right, we're trying to find what's the right thing to do.
much love,
Dragoon
Last edited by Dragoonclaws; 04-28-2015 at 10:04 PM.
No thanks to this suggestion, nothing against you but;
The OP is discussing the non-luck factor currently in this game after a player has spent VAST amounts of time, energy & even money to still receive NO reward. Or even worse I've ran 1250 runs and "no luck" where as another endgame player ran 10 runs and boom. The "luck" is by far way too random. There's no need to keep this low-luck based system (a huge luck-based percentage improvement is needed) when the vast majority of the player base continue to voice very negative feedback regarding it.
SO many more players have become upset & very frustrated with so much of their time & money being wasted for little to in many cases NO reward. Compared to what your post suggest, there's not nearly as many voicing negative feedback concerning content becoming boring too fast.
This is imo a serious issue because these feeling have been voiced over & over & over again by many different players. A solution to resolving the content becoming so-called boring to fast is, try new levels, twink, pvp, merch, don't play as much, run guild events, arena, tombs etc;
There's no real fix for Many Many hours of what people feel is their time & money being wasted in regards to obtaining an item they've placed a lot of effort in to receive being based solely on luck.
Last edited by HotttSauce; 04-28-2015 at 10:51 PM.
Most definitely not true. The price was way below 2.3 before the weekend. Don't even get me started on the rest of your post. Imho in order to be able to comment on such matters you should at least have done what people are talking about, which you have not.
Regards
Let me sum up a few things about dragon bar:
[Dragon Bar History]
As far as i am concerned, bar was used as a craft component for the arcane ring. The original price at the release was at least 10million gold. Then more and more and more started to come, and then some people started to sell at low prices, so with people decreasing i mean:
1) PA sells for 9m
2) PB sells for 8.7
3) P[C] sells for 8.5
So, the supply started to increase highly then the prices went down to 5m. It stayed there for a while then it suddenly dropped all the way down to 2.7m, and then...it even reached to 200k LOL.
How the prices increased?
-> Well, when the new planar amulet was introduced, someone bought in all the bars at auc. Then the prices pinged to less than 3m, and then another sky shot for 5hrs @ 5million gold. And then it kept dropping..dropping..and poof nobody buys it :C
Excelent thread +Candy I hope STS read and respond soon.
[Gamer 🎮] [Public Loudspeaker 📢] [Forum adept 🔧] [Economist 💰] [Positive user 💡] [Verified Profile ✔️]
I agree on the points you make, Candy. I would also like to see the ingredients tradeable. This way even before getting the items, farmers are already making profit. This has been done before during Valentine's and Egg Hunt events.
By all means make it possible to buy key ingredients with farmable essences/tokens. If it's the fossil/shard/recipe all over again it will quickly kill any interest in farming. This has been done with Imbued recipes, I don't see why it should be hard to do with the new mythic gear. There will be four items to find ingredients for and craft. This means a lot of farming for a long time. Don't turn all these efforts into nothing by making key ingredients locked drop only.
Make some items also drop on maps other than expansion maps so leveling players have a source of income too (egg and locked farming is wrecked) and they don't arrive at cap level impoverished and uncompetitive with only Klaas pets in their stable. Also, empty Shuyal and Tindirin maps make me sad. It would be nice to have people run them again. Make the drop on low lvl maps rare enough, maybe about as rare as Bael 2 spawning or as rare as Summit minibosses.
If there has to be something kept in lockeds/boss chests, make it something catalytic in nature, something to expedite the process. Maybe an essence that makes it possible to craft with fewer hard-to-find ingredients, or substantially increase the item's chance of getting grand gem on the item, or why not put para gem or eye gem in locked? We will need them to gem the gear. Just anything that might still be valuable to loot from locked chests but is not essential. Mythic crafting can still go on without these locked items, but it will be much faster and easier with them. Just my two cents.
Candy I totally agree with you on this. If you can afford to spend the money for platinum then by all means do so but, don't have it where non plat spenders can't have a legit shot at thus said items. Now with that being said I want to see your platinum payoff also cause it's your money. And for those of us who have to grind we'd like to be rewarded for hardwork also.
I agree with Candy, and STS please listen to her well-reasoned and eloquent plea
The new gear should be farmable by all or most, given enough time. By all means expedite the process for those willing to pay in cold hard cash, but still make it possible for f2p to eventually obtain without relying on luck, that capricious mistress.
Sell each component of the mythic set separately for plat and make it account bound, and make farmed versions tradeable; this would go a little way towards reducing the wealth gap by giving dedicated farmers something worth the ankhs/pots. Yes I understand that many farming the maps will already be well geared and wealthy, but there will be many players who aren't rich but have scraped, merched, saved and farmed until they can afford a mythic weapon (e.g. me) so we can run the new maps and finally make some gold back.
I'm looking forward to the coming events and of expansion, and think on the whole you're doing a great job, STS. You've got the opportunity to really shake things up and excite us with what's coming, please consider our wishes, as we too want this game to continue being a success!
Great thread Candy, what's missing here its that they have to listen, let's hope they actually read this and think about your suggestion!
I am ok with the first point of the thread regarding farming as it benefits both the f2p and p2p players but the 2point gives a big disadvantage to the f2p
Even when i am stating this the count of good veterans f2p and p2p player will be in the ratio of 10:1 almost every good experienced player ik spend plats very few players like me and other ppl have nevr spent plat on this game(not talking abt new players aka nub)so if stuff like weapons come only as plat it will be gg for the f2p guys
I was happy seeing that we could acquire l and l via gold also even thou both methods of acquiring it reqd plats so just sorta dont make it only plat buyable give us a chance ti atleast farm gold and acquire it stating my viewpoint ty.
siddhantsingh<turbo>(lvl41mage)
lukepvp(retired)(lvl25tank)
sidpvp<nvm>(lvl15mage)
everything would have been ok if all the items that are lootable from locks are also lootable from farming....and drop should be like just saying suppose for mythic pendant it will drop on time in 1k runs...but i may drop in the 2nd run or in the 999th run and like if i get two recipe drop in 500 runs i will not get another for the rest 1.5k runs...like that
I totally agree with candy. Those of us who have had bad luck are just totally disheartened. 700+ arena runs and nothing. 1000+ planar tomb 3 runs for 40 chests. I stopped running arena after I bought the recipe. Only reason I return to this wretched place is when a guildie can't find a party for more than 5 minutes and when I go in I have zero hope of getting anything.
Don't even want to comment on the returns for real money. The only real 100% return are elixirs. Opening 100+ locked and spending 100 Euro and getting one big NOTHING is a huge no-go.
I agree to the point that if you can obtain the best item or the ingredient for the best item in game in fixed amount of runs ,it takes out the fun factor out of the game.
my suggestion : you should able to get the 2nd best item in game by doing fixed amount of runs of a elite map or arena.
And by the term 2nd best item in game, i mean that the difference between best item and 2nd best item to be minimal but enough to make people to run for the best.
Last edited by noisy; 04-29-2015 at 06:28 AM.
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