Nekro - Overpowered?

[EQT]

In vs nekro isn't that op, a decent geared maridos user with skill can beat a max nekro user (what I have gathered from l16 pvp). However in a clash fml it is pretty hard to fight against nekro without a nekro. I totes agree the speed buff and panic is not needed. It's basically full rush package: speed, panic and dmg reduction.

[PhoenixPrime]

Damn I hate it when you're right lol.

Also responding to this thread, not this post. Don't get Nekro involve with PVE lol PVE almost has nothing to do with Nekro being OP or not. Matter of fact a pet being over power in PVE is always a good thing. Everyone definitely want to kill everything faster in elite map and of course farm faster when the time come. Rather it's for TIMED RUN or FARM RUN, true skill and talent come from the players and each of his own, not the pet itself. Not to brag or anything but with or without nekro some of my team/guild can still have a fast elite run, just a bit more challenge and slower time but it will still hold record. The key is, why play hard when you can play smart by using a nekro as it is intended to make things easier and faster.

Don't get one and don't play against one, if you think NEKRO is OVER POWER or just get one and join the majority. xD

Thank you! I only play the game for the PVE aspects (PVP just has zero interest for me) and I always seem to finally be able to afford something right before/after it gets nerfed (like Breeze, not huge, but it did get dinged).

If any tweaks are made, please only do it to the PVP aspects, and leave the PVE aspects alone. It is nice to be able to work towards getting OP gear and pets, so we can blow off steam by thoroughly pounding monsters into the ground, 8^).

[Disproves]

I agree that someone at STS went nuts with the nekro buff, but its too late to nerf it. Instead we need a pet that is somewhat similar to it in terms of shield. With the expansion coming, we need a pet that give us stun immunity and damage reduction in a similar way that nekro does.

@Zeus
The price comparison between what Sam used to be and what nekro is currently is hardly fair. The prices then were far greater than they should have been due to the rampant plat farming going on, which brought a lot of extra gold into circulation.

PvP should also not be limited to maxed out players. At the moment, pve farming is almost a chore, and PvP is a major part of the game. Saying that only players who are maxed out should go there is unfair to 99% of the population simply because they cannot compete. Most players will never be able to afford maxed out gear, so are you saying that they should not PvP at all? Seems rather unfair to me. Sure, I am not denying that having better gear should give you an advantage in PvP, but it should also not be impossible to compete with legendary gear. When was the last time you, are any other player with ring, imbued set, mythic bow, olanar pendant and nekro lost 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1 to an expedition or magma blade player? Most maxed out players probably won't even be able to remember it, that's how rare it is. I just think that everyone should stand some chance at winning regardless of gear.

I agree.. Just give scorch's shield 40% damage reduction and remove speed and terrify and that would balance things out.. Or even giving scorch 30% damage reduction?

[Arrowz]

Damn I hate it when you're right lol.

Also responding to this thread, not this post. Don't get Nekro involve with PVE lol PVE almost has nothing to do with Nekro being OP or not. Matter of fact a pet being over power in PVE is always a good thing. Everyone definitely want to kill everything faster in elite map and of course farm faster when the time come. Rather it's for TIMED RUN or FARM RUN, true skill and talent come from the players and each of his own, not the pet itself. Not to brag or anything but with or without nekro some of my team/guild can still have a fast elite run, just a bit more challenge and slower time but it will still hold record. The key is, why play hard when you can play smart by using a nekro as it is intended to make things easier and faster.

Don't get one and don't play against one, if you think NEKRO is OVER POWER or just get one and join the majority. xD

Typical rich person comment. "Just get one and join the majority". O yah because a majority of the players have a nekro and everyone can afford to buy one. That has nothing to do with the fact that its ability is so absurdly broken and it needs adjusted. Its so aggravating when the rich people try to defend things(sns and now nekro) that are broken because they have one and want protect their elite status with no regard for the majority of the community.

[SacredKnight]

IMO STS should've buffed Scorch a long with Nekro. Scorch's stats and AA are sub par to legendary pets, honestly I'm disappointed with STS and how they never responded to the Scorch disaster which is still going on. They could make Nekro really OP, change his AA entirely but not do a thing to Scorch? Not even a refund or an explanation? :/

Nekro is the new prime example of how PvP is unbalanced due to gear. Best Gear Average skill > Average Gear Best skill. STS is removing locks, people think "Yay" no more people who P2W. But I think, "What's replacing it?. Locks are the big money maker, so what will replace?

[Maunyabastian]

*skips page 1 posts*


My question, can the gap be closer if they do something about it? They can't just give Nekro eggs away for non-Nekro users, right?

Btw I think the title is changed.

[Zeus]

So practically u are saying that with my 40 million in gear and pets (current market value) I should not try PvP at all?!? Rolf... So u say 99.9% of the game population should not ever play PvP.

The part where there is a Nekro on each team most of the times is definitely not true. Maybe it is if u are in a PvP guild and can "call" someone who has one.

Currently I can one combo a ring/ imbued rogue (no nekro), whereas I would lose with a certainly of 90% to a expedition bow rogue who has nekro. Not sure how anyone could think that is OK

Anyhow the Nekro buff definitely went overboard by a lot. Don't even get me started on God mode in PvE.

Giving such an advantage to a part of the game population is the reason why games like Diablo 3 lost 9 million (90%) of their active players.

You can try PvP and be competitive with players of your own level but you cannot expect to compete with people in 60M gear + Nekro.

Nekro, in my eyes, has helped balance many things like say, for example: tank stacking. Now, if a game is stacked with tanks, it does not necessarily mean that I cannot survive & break tanks. Yes, there's some give with that but there are also many benefits.

The ideal PvP system would be to not allow players to choose teams, or limit the number of classes per team but AL was not intended to be a PvP game nor is it promoted as one. Yes, there are tournaments and such but the main part of the game is and always will be PvE. Please note, I am just stating this in predictive rebuttal where one will claim that I cannot expect a pet to balance tank stacking. In the already imbalanced PvP system, Nekro, for me, has helped combat some of the apparent imbalances that exist. Sure, it may have created other imbalances for those that do not have one but I believe that will be a fleeting concern as the game continues to become more populated with Nekro owners.

[Alhuntrazeck]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

It isn't the price tag. It is a broken pet like breeze was, simple as that. Even if I could afford the pet I wouldn't get it because I don't play the "if you can't beat them join them" game. People did that with Bulwark. Surprise, it got nerfed. People did it again with breeze. Guess what? Nerf bat.

There's OP, then there's utter insanity. A pet which basically gives you a Blinky's AA for 10 seconds, along with Nekros already great stats, stun immunity for ten seconds, movement speed boost so that you basically ignore tanks and get to the dps quickly. Nekros passive attack also deals heavy damage, as much as an auto attack or perhaps a skill of a low geared warrior. See, this isn't OP this is GODMODE.

How do you successfully build your character in this game? Open crates that's how. There's simply no other way to make the 30M necessary short of actually looting a fossil in arena. Some people don't have the $10k bank statement!

About your comment that skill is not necessary, I beg to differ. You have to know your class skill ranges, how to use them effectively, how to make the most out of walls, Trulle and trees. The rogue tournament you held was a prime example.

Lastly, in a random game, I have only rarely ever fought with Nekros on either end. Almost all of the time (99%) it has ended up with me and a friend or two with random versus a fully geared, Nekro team. 21K PvP kills speaking, have never been max geared so that should say something about my time in PvP.

Also, why has a dev changed the thread title but declined to post here...?

[Aerodude]

I think the original title was Nekro-the pet that.....skill somethijng like that and I think sts changed it because maybe they can't accept the fact that they made a big mistake in taking the buff way off the grid and used a characters skill for it.

[Slowking]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

The price tag is not the concern here. Yes, people were not complaining when Samael was 25-27M because although it is an exceptionally good pet, it does have its drawbacks and not every single player in the game wanted it as a priority. They were more focussed on getting gear first. But with Nekro, it surpasses existing gear and this does not fall in line with the fact that pets have a supportive role in the game.

You say that almost always, both sides in a match have Nekro. I strongly disagree. Unless you're in a good PvP guild, the possibilities of that happening are minute. You say a team not having Nekro, will continue to lose clashes even if they get Nekro? I strongly disagree yet again. Nekro is not the required standard for someone to PvP. Not everyone can afford it. You have 60k+ kills yes, but you mostly play with max geared people who can call Nekro's and SnS' and hence you assume every team will always have one.But that is not true.Lots of clashes can be turned around if the team without Nekro gets one, or the team using it, uses another pet. As of now, a Nekro can vastly influence a clash and its outcome. Nerfing Nekro's speed and panic will not give an advantage to SnS users as the damage dealt by pools will still be massively reduced and the Nekro user will not get stunned on top of pools. Avoiding the pools needs focus and skill, not a speed boost which allows you to walk over it without batting an eye.

A lot of the player base loves the PvP aspect of the game. They can't just be forced to play PvE 24/7 to even have a chance in PvP. Yes, having the best gear should give you a considerable advantage. But no, the odds against a lesser geared person should not be 10-0 every 10 matches. I disagree yet again. You say skill is not involved in MMOS. Knowing your character thoroughly to ensure survival and using said character to ensure the victory of a team requires absolute skill. Till Nekro came along, of course. Ping plays a more crucial part, yes. But no one can deny the fact that skill is needed.
In a vs or walls, ping plays the more crucial role. While in clashes, skill and teamwork are what matters. Mistakes should cost clashes. But now, Nekro users are free to run through to the other side and release some comboes and then rush back without much consequence.

PvP is for all, and the difference between second best gear and best gear should not be unsurpassable.

[Slowking]

Damn I hate it when you're right lol.

Also responding to this thread, not this post. Don't get Nekro involve with PVE lol PVE almost has nothing to do with Nekro being OP or not. Matter of fact a pet being over power in PVE is always a good thing. Everyone definitely want to kill everything faster in elite map and of course farm faster when the time come. Rather it's for TIMED RUN or FARM RUN, true skill and talent come from the players and each of his own, not the pet itself. Not to brag or anything but with or without nekro some of my team/guild can still have a fast elite run, just a bit more challenge and slower time but it will still hold record. The key is, why play hard when you can play smart by using a nekro as it is intended to make things easier and faster.

Don't get one and don't play against one, if you think NEKRO is OVER POWER or just get one and join the majority. xD

That is were our opinions are different. Nekro does affect PvE in my opinion. I agree, over-powered things are great in PvE. Then again, they are great in PvP too. But having an option to directly be the best is not a viable future for any game. Strategies are needed. Moreover, faster farming does help, yes. But do it enough times and people start getting bored out of their minds.

Games are rated on how challenging and fun they are. A lot of players first joined the game because it was rated the best MMO of 2012 and '13 (if memory serves right). And yes, in those days PvE was challenging. You couldn't just combo everything and keep on spamming skills to finish elite maps. But now, its turned into exactly that. Spam skills and finish maps.

Nekro does affect timed runs. Imagine a scenario where the team pulls a huge crowd but accidentally pulls one too many. In a case without a Nekro, the mobs would slow and debuff the team and hit them hard making them spam pots or they might even die which will have an outcome on the end result. But with Nekro, mistakes such as that can be overlooked. Its AA speed boost works completely opposite to the other speed boosts. Any speed debuff is overridden by Nekro's speed boost. This allows the team to pay no consequence for pulling too many mobs and can easily finish the run. This helps one get on lb,yes. But it depletes the need to gain skill and how to deal with situations.

In a game, the challenging part and the fun it provides takes a higher priority than all else. Nekro changes that. Of course, it helps in farming faster and more easier. But no other combination of pets can do it like that (other than perhaps, SNS).

PvE is a huge aspect of the game and it should be challenging. Otherwise it'll turn into endless mind-numbing hours of skill spamming. Tindrin elites in the beginning of the season is one of the examples of a challenging yet fun way of PvE.

[Aerodude]

I agree with slowking and ever since nekro was buffed way too much it is now PET>gear and skill when it should be SKILL>Gear and pet

[Anakraotaba]

"Yes, there was also the intention of it being the first pet to counter Shady N Surge. And Nekro does it perfectly. But its not what a game should be about. Now every player is after Nekro. And yes, its good that there's an ultimate pet everyone wants. But it should not be game-altering."

Arcane items SHOULD be game altering.

[epicrrr]

When HJ was released he was OP, a couple of arcane pet later now the best

SNS (The arcane pet i call Release-me-and-we-rich-that-wants-it-for-ourselves-people-will-threaten-to-quit-and-cut-profit-by-million-%)

and Nekro are dominating, its only natural the game progresses and a more advance pet be released, IMO nekro is fine then and fine now afterall people buy for their perceived usage in any situation.

PVP wise I've fought nekro user and a lot of clashes 13-14 they are tough but they can be dropped just a little challenging and of course intimidating. Once a lot of people used Singe now many will use Nekro, I dont see any problem with it now. Just join the bandwagon and buy yourself a Nekro.

PS. STS please increase drop rate of fossil.

[Wazakesy]

let scorch give a 10%dmg reduction.....

[Jazzi]

You can try PvP and be competitive with players of your own level but you cannot expect to compete with people in 60M gear + Nekro.

Nekro, in my eyes, has helped balance many things like say, for example: tank stacking. Now, if a game is stacked with tanks, it does not necessarily mean that I cannot survive & break tanks. Yes, there's some give with that but there are also many benefits.

The ideal PvP system would be to not allow players to choose teams, or limit the number of classes per team but AL was not intended to be a PvP game nor is it promoted as one. Yes, there are tournaments and such but the main part of the game is and always will be PvE. Please note, I am just stating this in predictive rebuttal where one will claim that I cannot expect a pet to balance tank stacking. In the already imbalanced PvP system, Nekro, for me, has helped combat some of the apparent imbalances that exist. Sure, it may have created other imbalances for those that do not have one but I believe that will be a fleeting concern as the game continues to become more populated with Nekro owners.

I will try to keep it shorter this time and base it on an example from the last two weeks.

A member of your guild (Bulleth) and I actually won a 4vs2 (TDM) where the other team had a ring rogue and a ring mage. I am using this example because this was the most fun I had in PvP. The whole point of this thread is that this could have never happened if the opposite team had a nekro. Not in a million rematches.

P.S. I do not pretend to be an expert on PvP. Not even to be very good at it. I just know the basics. This being said the pet is very broken in PvE as well. There are many reasons for that, but the main one is God mode during boss fights. Ofc this does no matter if you are going to spam revenge buff all the time, but believe it or not, most people dont wanna do that

[Alhuntrazeck]

When HJ was released he was OP, a couple of arcane pet later now the best

SNS (The arcane pet i call Release-me-and-we-rich-that-wants-it-for-ourselves-people-will-threaten-to-quit-and-cut-profit-by-million-%)

and Nekro are dominating, its only natural the game progresses and a more advance pet be released, IMO nekro is fine then and fine now afterall people buy for their perceived usage in any situation.

PVP wise I've fought nekro user and a lot of clashes 13-14 they are tough but they can be dropped just a little challenging and of course intimidating. Once a lot of people used Singe now many will use Nekro, I dont see any problem with it now. Just join the bandwagon and buy yourself a Nekro.

PS. STS please increase drop rate of fossil.

Hj wasnt OP, if memory serves. Malison gave more HP. It wasn't the best in every aspect like Nekro is now. If a pet has an OP AA, it should not have an OP passive/stats. You can't have the best of all worlds.

Think about this. For another arcane pet to be released that is better than Nekro, the stats, AA and passive will have to be hugely better. 50 primary Stat, 25 into str dex. 20% damage. Do you want to see that kind of pet in your twink levels, where it will be more OP than at endgame?

I understand Nekro isn't that strong at twink levels. At endgame however it absorbs 1.4k damage. With each shot being reduced by 40%, not taking into count armor... Simply put, it does not break. It ALSO has the same cool down of the mage shield.

Some changes I'd suggest -

1. Remove the panic and speed boosts.
2. Buff snappy and scorch shields to give 20% damage reduction.
3. Increase AA cool down to 40s.

[Serillia]

"Yes, there was also the intention of it being the first pet to counter Shady N Surge. And Nekro does it perfectly. But its not what a game should be about. Now every player is after Nekro. And yes, its good that there's an ultimate pet everyone wants. But it should not be game-altering."

Arcane items SHOULD be game altering.

Arcane items should be the best, but they should not be untouchable.

[Ghoul]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

I agree with this thread 100%.

I'd like to respectfully disagree about your comment stating that skill is nonexistent. It is simply because you have gear that you think skill is not needed. There are many undergeared players who are absolutely amazing in PvP and win against severe disadvantages.

[epicrrr]

Think about this. For another arcane pet to be released that is better than Nekro, the stats, AA and passive will have to be hugely better. 50 primary Stat, 25 into str dex. 20% damage. Do you want to see that kind of pet in your twink levels, where it will be more OP than at endgame?

I understand Nekro isn't that strong at twink levels. At endgame however it absorbs 1.4k damage. With each shot being reduced by 40%, not taking into count armor... Simply put, it does not break. It ALSO has the same cool down of the mage shield.

Some changes I'd suggest -

1. Remove the panic and speed boosts.
2. Buff snappy and scorch shields to give 20% damage reduction.
3. Increase AA cool down to 40s.

Nekros already at low level PVP so I am now open to any pet coming our way down here.

I'vee seen Magnum and Horror clashes and most clashes has 5+ Nekro, the perception of "they do not break" i find very misleading and exaggerated maybe it is when it is undergeared vs geared + nekro fights. Horn + Nekro shields but clashes are still fast. If what I experienced with Nekro shields are the same with 41s then they're not that OP but they provide an extended survival for team mates thats for sure.

Shield and Speed boost is what makes Nekro.
Snappy and Scorch does not need to be buffed.

Nekros AA must be increased slightly thats for sure. IMO