Dex Mage Owns PVP

**Sigkill** · 04-14-2011, 06:52 PM

A Dex mage with raid roach set dominates PVP at lvl 55+. I'll post some tips on how to beat them later on in this thread

**Zeus** · 04-14-2011, 06:55 PM

I think I'm done PvP for a while. It is starting to get me mad how birds are completely neutered in PvP. There is nothing strategic about it. I spent 1.5 mil trying new outfits looking for possible ways. Even with SIXTY THREE DODGE, dex elf still crits through me. I don't want to have high blood pressure while I'm still a teenager.

Developers, Birds had dodge for defense, second highest armor rating, and then speed. Then you nerfed them so the dodge was given to bears and the armor was given to elfs. We still had speed though, so it was ok. THEN you took away our speed. How are we supposed to survive?

**Physiologic** · 04-14-2011, 07:15 PM

Cinco said something like how his "mage owns now and that his bird got nerfed" and I could only imagine he was talking about PvP. Expect some sort of rebalance in the near future. As for PvPing, I was going to start with my bird post-GCD but I am now deciding against it once more. Since youre one of the top PvPers I can only imagine your frustration Parth - pvp is still a long way until everything is balanced, even with GCD. That being said, this is why I dont pvp.

**Zeus** · 04-14-2011, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Physiologic

Cinco said something like how his "mage owns now and that his bird got nerfed" and I could only imagine he was talking about PvP. Expect some sort of rebalance in the near future. As for PvPing, I was going to start with my bird post-GCD but I am now deciding against it once more. Since youre one of the top PvPers I can only imagine your frustration Parth - pvp is still a long way until everything is balanced, even with GCD. That being said, this is why I dont pvp.

Yea, in PvP now, since GCD. I become catty, agitated, and annoyed. Not like the usual me. Not going to take this out on fellow players yet anyways, so until they manage to come up for a reasonable solution for my neutered bird (quite literally), I'm not going to PvP. Except for the contest.

**Arterra** · 04-14-2011, 07:32 PM

Int bird fun no matter what happens

But yea lol at least the current timer makes pve possible for birds.

**DawnInfinity** · 04-14-2011, 07:34 PM

Yep. Dex mages definitely rock even more than before.

**Junside** · 04-14-2011, 07:50 PM

I know you can adapt around it with skillful timing and surrounding and probably do better than others - sometimes. I agree it's getting really difficult to fight with a bird in PVP. I don't have any advice for you because you do better than me in the majority of our fights. You'll find out something.

**Slush** · 04-16-2011, 12:37 AM

mages in general rock at pvp now. devs definetly need to implemnt a post-gcd rebalance

**XRAX** · 04-16-2011, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by rangepwnsmeel

I think I'm done PvP for a while. It is starting to get me mad how birds are completely neutered in PvP. There is nothing strategic about it. I spent 1.5 mil trying new outfits looking for possible ways. Even with SIXTY THREE DODGE, dex elf still crits through me. I don't want to have high blood pressure while I'm still a teenager.

Developers, Birds had dodge for defense, second highest armor rating, and then speed. Then you nerfed them so the dodge was given to bears and the armor was given to elfs. We still had speed though, so it was ok. THEN you took away our speed. How are we supposed to survive?

+99999

I agree. Although I can beat a Dex mage, it relies completely on luck. If this GCD is actually going to stay for PVP (><!!!!!!!) serious, serious work needs to be done to improve it. I already posted some ideas and feedbacks scattered somewhere within the threads, and have a lot more ideas. All in all, keep GCD for PVE, but remove it for PVP. It was perfectly balanced before and required no tampering.

**Ellyidol** · 04-16-2011, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by XRAX

+99999

I agree. Although I can beat a Dex mage, it relies completely on luck. If this GCD is actually going to stay for PVP (><!!!!!!!) serious, serious work needs to be done to improve it. I already posted some ideas and feedbacks scattered somewhere within the threads, and have a lot more ideas. All in all, keep GCD for PVE, but remove it for PVP. It was perfectly balanced before and required no tampering.

Bears at times even rely completely on luck.

Miss beckon, that's pretty much it. Even against good birds like yourself, if my beckon hits, repulse me away will you? Lol

**XRAX** · 04-16-2011, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ellyidol

Bears at times even rely completely on luck.

Miss beckon, that's pretty much it. Even against good birds like yourself, if my beckon hits, repulse me away will you? Lol

Lol very true. But thats why before GCD, you had the freedom to get back on your feet after an attack is missed or dodge. For example if I would miss my blast vs. a mage to bring down the shield, I would instantaneously Repulse shot + root until my skills recover and i catch my ground. For a bear, he could easily stomp + stun and then readjust himself. It wouldnt be the end of your life line if your attacks are dodged. The freedom to not be limited by a timer allows you to have more skill combination in general. It requires quicker mental processing, and definitely overall skill. Before i had maybe 5 different combos for different types of birds (some for dex bear), 4 for mage, 2 for warbird, 3 for pally, and 4 for bear. Just one of the many examples highlighting the richness and depth of PVP before. Now i have one combo for bird and dex bear, one for str bear and warbird, and one for mage, ZzZzZzZ. There is no more skill involved, lol.

**Falking** · 04-16-2011, 03:17 AM

does this mean that mages are OP and that birds dont really have a chance? and does dex mage matter whether wearing rr or mm?

**Ellyidol** · 04-16-2011, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by XRAX

Lol very true. But thats why before GCD, you had the freedom to get back on your feet after an attack is missed or dodge. For example if I would miss my blast vs. a mage to bring down the shield, I would instantaneously Repulse shot + root until my skills recover and i catch my ground. For a bear, he could easily stomp + stun and then readjust himself. It wouldnt be the end of your life line if your attacks are dodged. The freedom to not be limited by a timer allows you to have more skill combination in general. It requires quicker mental processing, and definitely overall skill. Before i had maybe 5 different combos for different types of birds (some for dex bear), 4 for mage, 2 for warbird, 3 for pally, and 4 for bear. Just one of the many examples highlighting the richness and depth of PVP before. Now i have one combo for bird and dex bear, one for str bear and warbird, and one for mage, ZzZzZzZ. There is no more skill involved, lol.

That's true.

And wow that's a lot of combos! I generally just have one for birds, one for mages, one for bears. Lol

**Kindread** · 04-16-2011, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ellyidol

Bears at times even rely completely on luck.

Miss beckon, that's pretty much it. Even against good birds like yourself, if my beckon hits, repulse me away will you? Lol

Hmm I don't get. Why wouldn't your defensive combos to buy time not work the same way anymore? Everyone is slowed down by the gcd, not just you. That small delay by gcd shouldnt change the effectiveness of your repulse root combo.

Originally Posted by XRAX

Lol very true. But thats why before GCD, you had the freedom to get back on your feet after an attack is missed or dodge. For example if I would miss my blast vs. a mage to bring down the shield, I would instantaneously Repulse shot + root until my skills recover and i catch my ground. For a bear, he could easily stomp + stun and then readjust himself. It wouldnt be the end of your life line if your attacks are dodged. The freedom to not be limited by a timer allows you to have more skill combination in general. It requires quicker mental processing, and definitely overall skill. Before i had maybe 5 different combos for different types of birds (some for dex bear), 4 for mage, 2 for warbird, 3 for pally, and 4 for bear. Just one of the many examples highlighting the richness and depth of PVP before. Now i have one combo for bird and dex bear, one for str bear and warbird, and one for mage, ZzZzZzZ. There is no more skill involved, lol.

**Zeus** · 04-16-2011, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by Morawk

Hmm I don't get. Why wouldn't your defensive combos to buy time not work the same way anymore? Everyone is slowed down by the gcd, not just you. That small delay by gcd shouldnt change the effectiveness of your repulse root combo.

The answer to this? Elf's spells had a delay cast time already. With GCD, this is negated, because the cast time on their spells when it is activated coincides with the GCD, thus giving them the exact same speed as us birds, but with A LOT more deadly power. This is why elf's are now overpowered.

For example, Drain life after it is cast, takes about 1 second to activate. This is negated during the cooldown period due to the GCD

**XRAX** · 04-16-2011, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Morawk

Hmm I don't get. Why wouldn't your defensive combos to buy time not work the same way anymore? Everyone is slowed down by the gcd, not just you. That small delay by gcd shouldnt change the effectiveness of your repulse root combo.

Of course it does. The only way it would work is if you are at a close enough distance. Other wise, if the opponent is a certain number of meters away, he or she would be repulsed and potentially out of range for root to connect once the global skill cool down is done ticking. Clearly, this applies to the stomp + stun slash effect as well. The "small" delay proves to be significant in many instances.
In addition, my argument is not limited solely to defensive combos, but it was a good example to use.
In terms of the point you made that GCD is being slowed down for everyone, this is true, but some classes benefit more than others. Just ONE example with the issue of balance is the following scenario. Ive never seen you in the arena, but you seem like a bird guy and ill assume you have a bird. So consider a 1v1 head on situation between a dex bird and a dex mage. What makes dex mages optimal is their high hit% and of course their ability to put up a shield (i.e. effectively a stall factor). A mage sporting a shield needs 3 skills minimum (unless you have a freakish crit) to kill (factoring in auto attack and external factors like dodge). A dex mage with a mana shield up will require a blast shot from the bird to bring down the shield and then at least 2 extra skills. A bird on the other hand requires ONLY two skills from a dex mage to die. By the time a bird brings down the shield and sends one arrow to connect, you are most likely dead unless you invest in dodge and pray probability is on your side, which is the only effective way there is so far given the limitations set by the current cool down timer.

Just to add:

Originally Posted by rangepwnsmeel

The answer to this? Elf's spells had a delay cast time already. With GCD, this is negated, because the cast time on their spells when it is activated coincides with the GCD, thus giving them the exact same speed as us birds, but with A LOT more deadly power. This is why elf's are now overpowered.

For example, Drain life after it is cast, takes about 1 second to activate. This is negated during the cooldown period due to the GCD

Good point put forth by Parth. It adds to the latter point of my explanation of why it is easy for mages to kill their opponents.

**Ellyidol** · 04-16-2011, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by Morawk

Hmm I don't get. Why wouldn't your defensive combos to buy time not work the same way anymore? Everyone is slowed down by the gcd, not just you. That small delay by gcd shouldnt change the effectiveness of your repulse root combo.

To me or Rax?

GCD definitely helped bears survive longer, yay there.

My one concern is that most of the time (especially since they've introduce the Beckon Stomp combo) our killing move is that combo. It is also our only tool vs ranged opponents, other than dodge and avoiding their spells. So when that misses, as a bear, your given a choice to either kite back until it coolsdown, or charge in with the hopes of your Hell Scream (next ranged skill, with semi stun) being in range AND hitting him (Hit % issue).

Bears are almost only deadly or useful within melee range (not bow/int bears), and with Beckon being our only skill that actually brings them within range, if that misses, there's nothing much we can do afterwards other than the two choices above.

And range is right, the small delay of Drain practically disappeared with GCD, nothing's new there since it already had that delay anyway. To actually account for that delay with GCD, it should be GCD + delay of Drain.

I'm not complaining or anything here, just stating some of the imbalances I've noticed

**Seminole** · 04-16-2011, 10:45 AM

I no get because before bird kill mage very easy. Now bird no kill mage easy and everyone mad? Now it even I kill mage and I die by mage so you do something wrong if no can kill mage. Only because a mage kill you now you mad? No you kill them too and you dodge them by Drainer or new gear bonus and now big chance dodge and kill very easy!! You try drainer first then when get good you custom watch how die but you die sometime too so now very fair!