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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Scaling of old elite maps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candylicks View Post
    They certainly can't expect us to just play three maps from now on. Right?

    I sure hope not. There is no way I'll make it to another expansion if that's the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    I sure hope not. There is no way I'll make it to another expansion if that's the case.
    Maybe today we will find out more with the 'new items dropping in arlor'. Pretty sure it's going to be rage of Ren related.

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    Dunno. I don't get the concern that there will no longer be elites for newbies. Elite by definition is not for newbies. Besides which, the unscaled maps hold no loot worth any money, so nobody is running them currently - not newbies, not anyone.
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    I wouldn't mind if I could get all the old elite weapons at level 45. Some have great procs that i would still use. Scale the levels and the same drops.

    They normally do this but only for the previous 2 seasons of the new cap. That's how level 40 Nordr jewels and level 35 firesquid rods exist. If they do it like they normally do we should have shuyal and tindrin gear scaled to 45 at least. Nordr and below would remain the same tho.

    I like the idea and hope it works.

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    I really hope this idea is considered by the devs as it makes sense and makes use to those elite maps that aren't used as much.

    I'd also be very disappointed if we only get 3 maps because it gives no variety and it's not consistent with prior expansions

  7.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #46
    Moderator - Inactive Arpluvial's Avatar
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    Hey, guys!

    This thread is full of solid feedback, for sure! While we encourage the feedback, let's make sure to stay on topic.
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    Senior Member Dalmony's Avatar
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    If this idea were to be implemented, ensuring that it was accessible for newbies and still allowed them a place in end game would be a huge part of that, so it isn't really off topic but its just taking the implementation/Development of this idea to a deeper level.

    At the moment, elites kinda suck for everyone to some extent: for well geared farmers looking to make serious gold, farming tends to be restricted to a very small selection of elite maps from the current expansion. This gets old and repetitive VERY quickly and while good money can often be made, it isn't the most stimulating game experience in the long term.

    For players who have just hit cap level and may be slightly undergeared looking to make average to low income from elites, there are "easy" elites: these are FAR too easy for even under-geared players, and they basically offer no income whatsoever.

    There are in total around 40 elite dungeons in the game if we include arena and planar tombs - plenty for scaling up all the maps and still having something for everyone.

    A good compromise might be:

    Brackenridge -> Dead city: Scaled to 5 levels below cap (41).

    Put a couple of new farmable eggs in these maps, and also add small gold drops to the chests which drop here which increases in such a way that normal chests contain the least gold, and banded chests contain slightly more, also depending on the rarity of the chest. Maybe even add twink gear to the drops here.

    Kraken -> Ren'gol: Scale to Cap level (46)

    To contain items such as new gear items, the more sought after jewels, and some crafting sub-components relevant to the crafting of new mythics dropping from the bosses here. Adding something of interest to their respective chests (like a gold drop, ankhs, respec scrolls, even orc tokens :-O) could also be of interest.

    To summarise:

    I am saying "no" to the original idea of scaling up every single elite map to 46, although I do totally agree with the concept.

    I am suggesting as an alternative to the originally posted idea, that "most" of the maps be scaled up leaving the first few maps at 5 levels below cap as an entry point to elites for newly capped players. In all cases the loot in elite maps across the game definitely needs to be revamped.
    Last edited by Dalmony; 06-19-2015 at 08:34 AM.

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    What the game needs is fresh new loot worthy of farming from Brack to Tind.

    Helps the non-plat players to make some gold. Twinks with new gear etc etc etc....Keep the economy thriving.

    BTW I hope the new expansion is NOT just 3 maps! One and a half year approx for 3 maps? Puh-lease!
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    Good idea !

    I'm so fresh

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    I actually briefly mentioned the suggestion for all elites to be scaled up to cap level, or 5 below minimum in this thread here:

    http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...ation-and-pets

    Which also contained more extended ideas on how this idea would work together with crafting components to make crafting tie all elite areas together.

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    Love the idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmony View Post
    If this idea were to be implemented, ensuring that it was accessible for newbies and still allowed them a place in end game would be a huge part of that, so it isn't really off topic but its just taking the implementation/Development of this idea to a deeper level.

    At the moment, elites kinda suck for everyone to some extent: for well geared farmers looking to make serious gold, farming tends to be restricted to a very small selection of elite maps from the current expansion. This gets old and repetitive VERY quickly and while good money can often be made, it isn't the most stimulating game experience in the long term.

    For players who have just hit cap level and may be slightly undergeared looking to make average to low income from elites, there are "easy" elites: these are FAR too easy for even under-geared players, and they basically offer no income whatsoever.

    There are in total around 40 elite dungeons in the game if we include arena and planar tombs - plenty for scaling up all the maps and still having something for everyone.

    A good compromise might be:

    Brackenridge -> Dead city: Scaled to 5 levels below cap (41).

    Put a couple of new farmable eggs in these maps, and also add small gold drops to the chests which drop here which increases in such a way that normal chests contain the least gold, and banded chests contain slightly more, also depending on the rarity of the chest. Maybe even add twink gear to the drops here.

    Kraken -> Ren'gol: Scale to Cap level (46)

    To contain items such as new gear items, the more sought after jewels, and some crafting sub-components relevant to the crafting of new mythics dropping from the bosses here. Adding something of interest to their respective chests (like a gold drop, ankhs, respec scrolls, even orc tokens :-O) could also be of interest.

    To summarise:

    I am saying "no" to the original idea of scaling up every single elite map to 46, although I do totally agree with the concept.

    I am suggesting as an alternative to the originally posted idea, that "most" of the maps be scaled up leaving the first few maps at 5 levels below cap as an entry point to elites for newly capped players. In all cases the loot in elite maps across the game definitely needs to be revamped.
    I could live with that, and your post is well stated. However, I still don't see the point. New players have all the normal maps to run, plus all the tombs and kraken mines.

    When the game was new, elite was something people worked hard to get to, and worked harder to accomplish. The first time I went to elite Brackenridge Forest, it took me over 20 pots to kill the first group of mobs with a party. It was exhilarating. Like, wow there's a whole other game once you get to the end, this is awesome! We have a reason to keep going, working for gear and playing. The whole elite-for-noobs concept detracts from that.

    If they get to elite level and go to Brackenridge to find it super easy, when they hit the scaled maps they're cannon fodder because they expect it to be easy. Better to start as you mean to go on.

    However, if there's not enough loot to spread through all the elite maps, then this would be a logical option. Really though, your suggestion would just mean scaling one more group of maps. Nordr - Tindirin is already scaled, so scaling just Kraken fully just moves the pounding point lower. But, 5 levels below cap is better than 20 levels I guess.
    Last edited by Serancha; 06-19-2015 at 11:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    I could live with that, and your post is well stated. However, I still don't see the point. New players have all the normal maps to run, plus all the tombs and kraken mines.

    When the game was new, elite was something people worked hard to get to, and worked harder to accomplish. The first time I went to elite Brackenridge Forest, it took me over 20 pots to kill the first group of mobs with a party. It was exhilarating. Like, wow there's a whole other game once you get to the end, this is awesome! We have a reason to keep going, working for gear and playing. The whole elite-for-noobs concept detracts from that.

    If they get to elite level and go to Brackenridge to find it super easy, when they hit the scaled maps they're cannon fodder because they expect it to be easy. Better to start as you mean to go on.

    However, if there's not enough loot to spread through all the elite maps, then this would be a logical option. Really though, your suggestion would just mean scaling one more group of maps. Nordr - Tindirin is already scaled, so scaling just Kraken fully just moves the pounding point lower. But, 5 levels below cap is better than 20 levels I guess.
    I totally agree with this. Why the heck aren't they scaling all the elites anymore? I also remember capping and THEN starting elite maps after and they were so hard! Now they aren't scaling them all and they simply serve as a purpose for people to run them for the LB with insane times. All elites need to scale up to reflect the new cap. It really is the only thing that makes sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    I could live with that, and your post is well stated. However, I still don't see the point. New players have all the normal maps to run, plus all the tombs and kraken mines.

    When the game was new, elite was something people worked hard to get to, and worked harder to accomplish. The first time I went to elite Brackenridge Forest, it took me over 20 pots to kill the first group of mobs with a party. It was exhilarating. Like, wow there's a whole other game once you get to the end, this is awesome! We have a reason to keep going, working for gear and playing. The whole elite-for-noobs concept detracts from that.

    If they get to elite level and go to Brackenridge to find it super easy, when they hit the scaled maps they're cannon fodder because they expect it to be easy. Better to start as you mean to go on.

    However, if there's not enough loot to spread through all the elite maps, then this would be a logical option. Really though, your suggestion would just mean scaling one more group of maps. Nordr - Tindirin is already scaled, so scaling just Kraken fully just moves the pounding point lower. But, 5 levels below cap is better than 20 levels I guess.
    Now, I agree with you, Don't get me wrong...
    But has ANYONE ever Earned any gold to get decent gear to run elites from normal maps?
    Aside from lock-farming, Which they will remove right?,The Only normal Map Who gives decent payoff is to run normal wilds for teeth all day, and that would leave the elite core of the playerbase with ALOT of new stuff, and the people Who does not have so much gold with farming in one Map.

    Just want you to explain, even though I completely agree with pushing everything up to cap level, because, as you say, elites are not supposed to be able to be soloed by random Low level players.
    Last edited by ClumsyCactus; 06-19-2015 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinathedemo View Post
    Now, I agree with you, Don't get me wrong...
    But has ANYONE ever Earned any gold to get decent gear to run elites from normal maps?
    Aside from lock-farming, Which they will remove right?,The Only normal Map Who gives decent payoff is to run normal wilds for teeth all day, and that would leave the elite core of the playerbase with ALOT of new stuff, and the people Who does not have so much gold with farming in one Map.

    Just want you to explain, even though I completely agree with pushing everything up to cap level, because, as you say, elites are not supposed to be able to be soloed by random Low level players.
    If they are made easy and supplied with loot, then that loot will just be exploited by everyone - including the geared players.

    Better to have everything the same level and give the newly capped a reason to get geared. If they can get elite loot without getting geared, there is no reason to play and earn their way up.

    Most of us earned our mythic money in KM3 farming crates. Now that there are new crates, that should be possible again. Plus there is Tindirin, plus there is whatever the normal map thing is this coming season. There is no need for extra "easy" maps - we have enough of those already.

    Scaling the old elites would not change anything for new players. There is nothing they can make money on in those maps at this time anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinathedemo View Post
    Now, I agree with you, Don't get me wrong...
    But has ANYONE ever Earned any gold to get decent gear to run elites from normal maps?
    Aside from lock-farming, Which they will remove right?,The Only normal Map Who gives decent payoff is to run normal wilds for teeth all day, and that would leave the elite core of the playerbase with ALOT of new stuff, and the people Who does not have so much gold with farming in one Map.

    Just want you to explain, even though I completely agree with pushing everything up to cap level, because, as you say, elites are not supposed to be able to be soloed by random Low level players.
    Maybe they could put some eggs in some of the normal maps (normal Rage maps?) like they did in normal Nordr. Vixen eggs and especially Kelvin ones used to maintain a good price for a long time.

    p.s. Sorry, Serancha, for the offtopic lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatman View Post
    Maybe they could put some eggs in some of the normal maps (normal Rage maps?) like they did in normal Nordr. Vixen eggs and especially Kelvin ones used to maintain a good price for a long time.

    p.s. Sorry, Serancha, for the offtopic lol.
    Yes put things like Dova eggs, Fritters, Sky, silver, lil bear eggs, frist eggs, Gyrm eggs etc etc.. Either in lower elites or normal maps. Come on STS freshen things up. Allow new ppl and under geared ppl to make some gold in the game.

    Have stuff drop like archon rings like maybe a good stat amulet or two like wild talisman or even 26/31 mythics. I'm just throwing out ideas here.

    For example you can create Kelvin's cousin Melvin where he panics instead of stunning and put him in Kraken blood hammer map.
    Last edited by Xorrior; 06-19-2015 at 01:32 PM.
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    Loot distribution has been broken for a long time. Too many untended exploits left anything found in normal maps worthless, and then the pet egg crates finished off the destruction. Yes, I agree that normal maps need viable loot in them, but again that's another issue which has it's own logistical problems due to rampant exploitation.

    There is a lot of talk amongst older players concerned that this very limited expansion is going to be the end of the road. This thread provides a solution that would generate fresh interest in all players, give the newly capped plat-leveled newbies a purpose to continue playing and earn decent gear, and halt the steep decline in player activity.

    It would give players options on how and where they wish to play, preventing the 3 new maps from being overfarmed and retaining value for the new items. There is no downside except for those who want to run easy maps and say they are doing elite. There's nothing elite about that.

    The definition of elite is: a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities.

    It is supposed to be a challenge, and was never supposed to be for people in epic or low-level gear.


    A dev response on this matter would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Serancha; 06-19-2015 at 02:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    There are different qualities of the new armour, aren't there? It wouldn't have to be the best - just something viable. Even a chance at tokens, as was already suggested by Shiny, would be fine. Anything to make the currently wasted maps a decent level of difficulty and worthy of running and farming.

    Trust me, when rooks nest elite was scaled full level, it was plenty hard.
    Love this idea, and I can attest to elite rook nests difficulty in its prime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    I could live with that, and your post is well stated. However, I still don't see the point.
    The point is simply to keep a sort of linear progression for players as they develop their characters; to keep the game fun with relevant map areas all the way through character development, rather than presenting players with a huge insurmountable jump in difficulty once they cap and unlock elites. The gap today between a newly capped player and a capped player with the very best of gear, is significantly larger in terms of wealth, stats, and game experience/knowledge than it was the first time you played Brackenridge elite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    New players have all the normal maps to run, plus all the tombs and kraken mines.
    Please tell me more about how tombs and kraken mines create a stimulating and enjoyable play experience that will keep capped players in game, give them farming options, and motivate them to keep coming back for more of the same >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    The whole elite-for-noobs concept detracts from that.
    Not every player with average gear is “noob” some players just actually prefer a slightly more casual game experience, and would be/are happy to farm mild level difficulty elites and slowly amble their way towards better gear, or simply be content with legendaries. Lost mages mine and Rooks nest are still popular maps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    If they get to elite level and go to Brackenridge to find it super easy, when they hit the scaled maps they're cannon fodder because they expect it to be easy. Better to start as you mean to go on.
    If this really did turn out to be a massive problem (though it hasn't up to now) it would easily be resolved by simply labelling the elite maps like they did on the regular map. If they really wanted to go wild they could even colour code the harder areas to have red names to make it even MORE obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serancha View Post
    Really though, your suggestion would just mean scaling one more group of maps. Nordr - Tindirin is already scaled, so scaling just Kraken fully just moves the pounding point lower. But, 5 levels below cap is better than 20 levels I guess.
    If we followed the current trend, when expansion hit we would have just Shuyal, Tindirin, and Rengol as max scaled elites with everything else being slightly lower- Nordr would be left at elite level 40/41 (the difficulty level that I'm suggesting be applied instead to brack, ydra, and dead city).

    Including everything from Kraken onwards would actually give us an extra 2 areas to play in for a total of 5 areas, plus planar tombs would be 6 if they scale to 46 as well.

    We do for sure agree on the fact that 20 levels below cap is just plain ridiculous and unnecessary.
    Last edited by Dalmony; 06-19-2015 at 06:15 PM.

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