Vanity helms still appear when hide helm is checked

[kallima]

@ Mooger It may not affect your game but if you twink at at low levels it gives them a DRASTIC advantage. Are they invincible, no. But is it unfair, yes. The rings I have no issue with as ALL players can purchase it. The shield was nerfed so they should nerd the helm as well. It's fair play.

[Riccits]

And for those who think +5 doesn't make a big difference, I'll remind you of Phys's equations after the GCD -- The devs thought +5 damage was a big enough change to make the GCD runs faster.

yep in pvp every hit has a + of 5dmg on every shot and skill. that means at least a + of 40dmg(?) after some attacks and -40dmg from the opponent. and in pvp u often stay alive by a hair...
in lvl 15 pvp the diffences in % are way bigger. my bear has tought amor 20 and after 25, so 25% more then before.

[Lesrider]

Yeah, I always gets confused with these conflicting messages we get from the devs. They make the shields all vanity items to make things fair, and with the same update, they give a select few another vanity item that gives them an edge. I just don't get it.

[Moogerfooger]

@ Mooger It may not affect your game but if you twink at at low levels it gives them a DRASTIC advantage. Are they invincible, no. But is it unfair, yes. The rings I have no issue with as ALL players can purchase it. The shield was nerfed so they should nerd the helm as well. It's fair play.

I don't PvP very much, but I already said/suggested, if it is a big deal, disable the bonus for PvP. I guess you missed that part/suggestion.

I didn't know it had bonus stats before Les said it, but still doesn't change my stance that I could care less if someone wants to have the option to hide it, like the hide hat option. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and no one is "right" or "wrong", but I just don't get the logic of if you have a vanity item, it MUST be shown. Makes zero sense from a logic standpoint, unless you theoretically get some insight into someone's build when going against them in PvP.

[Moogerfooger]

Yeah, I always gets confused with these conflicting messages we get from the devs. They make the shields all vanity items to make things fair, and with the same update, they give a select few another vanity item that gives them an edge. I just don't get it.

Agreed. Won't comment further, because I don't feel like getting caught in the nuclear flame blast you will bring on yourself if you suggest what I think you are suggesting

[Lesrider]

Agreed. Won't comment further, because I don't feel like getting caught in the nuclear flame blast you will bring on yourself if you suggest what I think you are suggesting

True, this is going down a path that will likely get me blown to bits.
But the way I see it, the devs opened up a freaking giant can of worms here. What is going to happen, is they're either going to have to nerf one or start making more vanity items with bonuses, to appease the masses. Either way, something's going to have to be done since they didn't just leave vanity items as vanity items.

[kallima]

I don't PvP very much, but I already said/suggested, if it is a big deal, disable the bonus for PvP. I guess you missed that part/suggestion.

I didn't know it had bonus stats before Les said it, but still doesn't change my stance that I could care less if someone wants to have the option to hide it, like the hide hat option. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and no one is "right" or "wrong", but I just don't get the logic of if you have a vanity item, it MUST be shown. Makes zero sense from a logic standpoint, unless you theoretically get some insight into someone's build when going against them in PvP.

I did miss your suggestion, so my bad but I do think it would be more difficult than it sounds for the devs to disable the bonus exclusively for PVP, otherwise GCD would not have been introduced to both PVE and PVP, as it was intended to prevent multi touching in PVP.

As for the insight, if I'm able to see an opponent with the helm, knowing its stats, I can counter by adjusting my equipment and play style accordingly. The added stat bonus is huge. I am biased though as I twink at both 15 & 20.

[Lesrider]

I did miss your suggestion, so my bad but I do think it would be more difficult than it sounds for the devs to disable the bonus exclusively for PVP, otherwise GCD would not have been introduced to both PVE and PVP, as it was intended to prevent multi touching in PVP.

As for the insight, if I'm able to see an opponent with the helm, knowing its stats, I can counter by adjusting my equipment and play style accordingly. The added stat bonus is huge. I am biased though as I twink at both 15 & 20.

Yeah, I already heard from those who have the helm that people have been telling them to take it off for pvp. So I don't doubt that's part of the reason people want to hide it. But that seems hardly fair.

Still don't understand the choice to add the extra stats to a vanity helm that is only available to a select few.

[Riccits]

devs loves theyr founders

[Moogerfooger]

Still don't understand the choice to add the extra stats to a vanity helm that is only available to a select few.

Because they are a "select few" :P again, as pointed out, might not be "fair" for PvP, but let's drop that issue for a sec and look at the big picture.

Lemme give you an analogy...you start a business, "Les's Pimp House of Burgers' in Appletown. You start off small, and you get a core group of regulars who come in every day for the becoming-famous "LesBurger Deluxe". Business grows. Word gets out. Your business does so well, you open another Les's in the next town, Androidville. Business continues to improve. You finally realize, "Hey, if it wasn't for those initial core regulars, my whole damn business mighta gone under. I am gonna give them 10% off their orders for life, because I appreciate what they did for my business."

Now I am not you, but I know that if it was me in that position, and some later customers came along and complained (myself included) that the intial core group of regulars were getting a 10% discount because they helped keep you in business early on and it wasn't "fair" to them because they hadn't heard of Les's in Appletown, or lived too far away in Androidville.....I would tell them "I appreciate your business, but too bad...they made it possible for me to advertise and expand my LesBurger Deluxe (with special mystery sauce) Empire in the first place".

[Olli Walli]

You can't look at it that way. Burger joint customers are not playing competitivly. If you looked at it from a sports theme of giving the original teams homefield advantage all the time for being the first teams in a league etc. You have to look at it as a competitive stand point. If they want to give all of the "original" people a 10% discount or an extra 5000 platinum that is fine by me. But don't give them an advantage that others cannot obtain.

[Riccits]

Because they are a "select few" :P again, as pointed out, might not be "fair" for PvP, but let's drop that issue for a sec and look at the big picture.

Lemme give you an analogy...you start a business, "Les's Pimp House of Burgers' in Appletown. You start off small, and you get a core group of regulars who come in every day for the becoming-famous "LesBurger Deluxe". Business grows. Word gets out. Your business does so well, you open another Les's in the next town, Androidville. Business continues to improve. You finally realize, "Hey, if it wasn't for those initial core regulars, my whole damn business mighta gone under. I am gonna give them 10% off their orders for life, because I appreciate what they did for my business."

Now I am not you, but I know that if it was me in that position, and some later customers came along and complained (myself included) that the intial core group of regulars were getting a 10% discount because they helped keep you in business early on and it wasn't "fair" to them because they hadn't heard of Les's in Appletown, or lived too far away in Androidville.....I would tell them "I appreciate your business, but too bad...they made it possible for me to advertise and expand my LesBurger Deluxe (with special mystery sauce) Empire in the first place".

les, as ur friend, i want the 10% discount too :/

[kallima]

Um, can we not debate any more about the founder's helm? It's left a bad taste in my mouth, either that or it's the "special mystery sauce." The topic seems to be more divisive than any I've ever seen. I'm not saying censor yourself or don't express opinions but it's like we're beating a dead horse.

However, in support of Les' standpoint, if we are going to boost stats on a vanity helm why strip it from the shields? Personally, those that earned the community shield actually worked for it by researching and playing countless hours, they ARE entitled to it. Those that got the helm got it by virtue of luck for owning an apple device when PL came out.

Contradictory post over.

[Moogerfooger]

You can't look at it that way. Burger joint customers are not playing competitivly. If you looked at it from a sports theme of giving the original teams homefield advantage all the time for being the first teams in a league etc. You have to look at it as a competitive stand point. If they want to give all of the "original" people a 10% discount or an extra 5000 platinum that is fine by me. But don't give them an advantage that others cannot obtain.

I can look at it anyway I choose, as it as an opinion. I was making a fairly big picture general example and stated as much. You don't think it's "fair", I got that from your earlier post. My number #1 reason to boot people from my life is people telling me my opinion is "wrong", as you are. This is a game forum, so I ultimately don't care too much, but you are entitled to your way of thinking about it and me of mine, and neither of us is "right" or "wrong". I was providing another way to look at it, not necessarily arguing for it....people telling me how to think/my opinion is "wrong"/"you can't look at it that way" are not noteworthy to me, so nice chatting with you.

Regardless...they are the Founders. You and I possibly would never have found the game and enjoyed if not for them. To sit their and complain about bonus stats for those early vets and apparently refuse to look at another viewpoint is narrow-minded, just because you are at a disadvantage in PvP now. I have already repeatedly pointed out solutions for that.

[Moogerfooger]

Um, can we not debate any more about the founder's helm? It's left a bad taste in my mouth, either that or it's the "special mystery sauce." The topic seems to be more divisive than any I've ever seen. I'm not saying censor yourself or don't express opinions but it's like we're beating a dead horse.

However, in support of Les' standpoint, if we are going to boost stats on a vanity helm why strip it from the shields? Personally, those that earned the community shield actually worked for it by researching and playing countless hours, they ARE entitled to it. Those that got the helm got it by virtue of luck for owning an apple device when PL came out.

Contradictory post over.

Well said....sorry about the 'mystery special sauce' reference, lol.

I'm done with the topic. Everyone has valid points and opinions.

[Lesrider]

les, as ur friend, i want the 10% discount too :/

Hmm I'll have to think about that

[Olli Walli]

Wow a bit touchy are we Mooger. All if fine by me. My apologies if my comment seemed personal and touched a nerve.

Either way, I'll leave it at that and will be sure to not comment on a thread you are involved in as I do not want to accidentally make the same mistake twice. I do not feel I belittled you or wronged you in anyway, but I guess it is what it is.

[Lesrider]

Moog, I'm not gonna comment much on the burger thing because I think you're comparing apples and oranges.

And I still wish the devs would stop sending mixed messages.

[Sun]

Lol if it's gonna cause this much controversy ill just deal with looking like purple sonic, nbd

[Moogerfooger]

@Olli, sorry I came off a little harsh. I am just very black and white when it comes to people implying that opinions/viewpoints are wrong, so to speak...everyone on this thread seems pretty bright/semi-informed/justified in their opinions so I accept all of them....I was just trying to provide another way of looking at it. I'm older than most of you, and ex-military to boot so I don't brook any BS and come off a little harsh sometimes. My bad.

Les, it's not apples to oranges, because I could say that 10% discount is a competitive advantage...to your customer's wallets. Just another way to possibly look at it. But if it is apples to oranges, can I get some RiderFries with those?

And last thing....if I did twink (and I do have one in low-key mode for now) and I ran up against someone with a +5 helm...I would personally take it as a challenge to find a way to beat them, just to say "ha!"