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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: [Feedback] Mage Heal Upgrade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alhuntrazeck View Post
    Lol.

    Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP

    Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

    Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

    Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyx View Post
    But following that logic, we should nerf warriors too. I mean, nobody will dispute that tank stacking is op.

    The fact of the matter is that the use of mage heal is extremely situational. When it's needed, it should work as intended. I don't know how to put this another way; if mage is not shielded, there is no amount of healing that will save us from a single charged aim shot.

    Geez, nobody has even tested this heal long enough yet, so aren't you jumping the gun a bit with a nerf thread? From my testing, it is better not to use heal vs a rogue. We'll see about the rest
    Im gonna have to go with Shiny on this one. Earlier today I (a rogue with no ring no nekro) was able to kill a shielded mage using heal with 2-3 combos. So mages can definitely still be easily killed, just not so easy to the point of using one combo. Rogue was meant for more of a 1v1 or 1v2 where you can kill your opponents fast. They are sometimes needed in some clashes depending on the lineup. Id say let this new heal stay a while and see where it goes. Also, at the beginning of expansion a rogue with the new bow and l36 mythics pendant etc could easily 1 combo a mage with their shield up if aim and sp crit. So this new heal definitely gjves mages surviving opportunity.
    P.S. im not a mage,.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alhuntrazeck View Post
    Lol.

    Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP

    Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

    Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

    Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.
    Actually ive seen some max rogues do around 3k on sp(high end crit) so 10k or even more in some situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnowledgeFTW View Post
    You hate hearing "rouge legends" but now you proceed to say "mage legends" bias much? Lel (no offense)


    Other than that I agree with you about this buff, necessary for this skill.

    Thanks to a few rouges, mages will be nerfed. Lifegiver might as well be taken off the skill chart and replaced with something else.
    You should really read before you post. He clearly stated hes glad mages got a good buff. Rogue legends meant that rogues dominated every single aspect of the game. At least now mages have a better chance in pvp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oursizes View Post
    Im gonna have to go with Shiny on this one. Earlier today I (a rogue with no ring no nekro) was able to kill a shielded mage using heal with 2-3 combos. So mages can definitely still be easily killed, just not so easy to the point of using one combo. Rogue was meant for more of a 1v1 or 1v2 where you can kill your opponents fast. They are sometimes needed in some clashes depending on the lineup. Id say let this new heal stay a while and see where it goes. Also, at the beginning of expansion a rogue with the new bow and l36 mythics pendant etc could easily 1 combo a mage with their shield up if aim and sp crit. So this new heal definitely gjves mages surviving opportunity.
    P.S. im not a mage,.
    Again, I'm talking about clashes - which is what PvP is. 1v1 scenarios are not really PvP and until 1v1 comes, that balance is not yet a concern. Once 1v1 comes, then yes, expect that I'll be giving input on how to make it fair for all classes. However, it does go both ways. I do not think anyone can deny how overpowered sorcerers are in clashes now (which is a majority of endgame PvP).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alhuntrazeck View Post
    Lol.

    Rogues got their packs fixed within days of the bug. The sorcerer heal buff took near 3 years. Give us some time to feel OP

    Jokes aside, a sorcerer's place is in a clash. You don't see us crying because a rogue is better in pretty much everything else in PvP do you? (Not any more anyway, not since the buff).

    Sorcerers can't do as much damage as a rogue, that's a ridiculous myth. If sorcerers are running shield and the OP OP heal, that leaves 2 attack skills (provided they aren't curse mages). Fireball and lightning, usually. Let's say Fireball crits 2k damage and light 4k (I'm not max geared, so I'm unsure of actual numbers) - a rogue does say 5k on aim, 2k on Nox, 2k on sp. 9k versus 6k. Bearing in mind both are max geared and are attacking the same opponent.

    Moving back to the main topic, I've always held that mages were meant to have a supporting role. This helps that. I do agree that maybe it needs to be nerfed slightly, by maybe a 100 damage less, or better still have STR as a factor rather than damage but I doubt that would ever happen.
    9K vs 6K when rogues are 4.9k-5.5K HP. Dead is dead, damage does not matter if it exceeds HP.

    As of right now, the current heal makes sorcerers able to support as well as output enough damage to wipe a rogue in a clash based environment (majority of PvP).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oursizes View Post
    You should really read before you post. He clearly stated hes glad mages got a good buff. Rogue legends meant that rogues dominated every single aspect of the game. At least now mages have a better chance in pvp.
    I did read it, twice auctally. I don't mean any harm to Edward.
    All I said was that don't go saying ( xxx legends ) when you hate hearing it.
    As for buff, I'm glad it came through.

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    Maybe you forgot it takes 1 skill slot for this heal totally reducing max combo damage. And how come it will be an issue to stack multiple mages if heal doesnt stack invulnerability like warriors do? Mage can still be one shot by one rogue, make it two then for sure it will be dead already without even using a skill.

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    Do you realise how weak the mage heal was compared to other class heals? Yes, it can also heal mana but had no special addition and it only heals an average amount once. Since both Warrior and Rogue heals have heal over time with very decent amount, this buff is quite fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    9K vs 6K when rogues are 4.9k-5.5K HP. Dead is dead, damage does not matter if it exceeds HP.

    As of right now, the current heal makes sorcerers able to support as well as output enough damage to wipe a rogue in a clash based environment (majority of PvP).
    Of course the numbers I listed are for hypothetical situations, let's say an unshielded mage. Those numbers will NEVER hit a rogue in a clash because of the Nekro shield and the rogues' already high armor. The damage dealt will be more like 3-4k lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    9K vs 6K when rogues are 4.9k-5.5K HP. Dead is dead, damage does not matter if it exceeds HP.

    As of right now, the current heal makes sorcerers able to support as well as output enough damage to wipe a rogue in a clash based environment (majority of PvP).
    Rogues have the fastest cd'ing skills in the game, which allows them to hit faster than a mage. So even though dead is dead, the rogue would get the kill before the mage. If you can see path of thinking, you can see how this could be effective in clashes.

    Yes, mages have a shield, even without the Nekro shield, to protect them. But keep in mind, it is a skill and shield is the only way a mage can get decent survivability. Yes, decent, because geared rogues can easily break shields in 2-3 combos. Without this skill(or Nekro shield), mages are 'paper'. The heal gives them a chance to support the team, which imo, will make clashes more challenging. I'm confident the heal isn't as huge a buff as everyone makes it to be. Because 1k hp back per tick, met with a rogue's aim or even another mage's light crit......we go back to Dead is dead. It will however help warriors survive longer which will allow them to protect their team further. Rogues are not all useless. Mages with 5+ paras can perhaps do the dmg of a rogue with 1 para. Equal geared mages and rogues do NOT do the same dmg. So, rogues are still the best class in taking out the opposite team's dps, which will make the clash easier. And you say rogues are the majority of PvP. This is only because rogues are/were over-powered and many veterans and new players opted to go for the rogue class so that they wouldn't be squished. Hopefully, because of the new buffs, you'll see more and more sorcerers in PvP.

    And I'm also confident that if people try hard enough, they can adapt to this buff. All the same, you could be right too. Let's hear the opinions of others(especially mages) after they clash a few times too(Clashes are precious few these days,unless organized). Then we can decide if the heal needs to be nerfed.
    Last edited by Serillia; 08-14-2015 at 09:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColaxRic View Post
    Do you realise how weak the mage heal was compared to other class heals? Yes, it can also heal mana but had no special addition and it only heals an average amount once. Since both Warrior and Rogue heals have heal over time with very decent amount, this buff is quite fair.
    Yes, very fair indeed. Considering that mage skill cooldown is far more longer than other class. Sacrificing one slot for heal will totally affect combo damage.

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    Pvp is now arrypotta's dog...
    Next they make rog be able
    To shoot thru wall? Or mage shield to disrupt pet AA....
    Or maybe all warriors to lose 50 dps out of the blue
    Last edited by hioo; 08-14-2015 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado View Post
    Maybe you forgot it takes 1 skill slot for this heal totally reducing max combo damage. And how come it will be an issue to stack multiple mages if heal doesnt stack invulnerability like warriors do? Mage can still be one shot by one rogue, make it two then for sure it will be dead already without even using a skill.
    Precisely. "People" are forgetting it uses a skill slot. That leaves us with Heal, Shield, Fireball and Light. Only 2 attack skills. With the testing that I have done, it is the rogues who are made stronger by our heal. They use our hp regen to crossand kill the opposing, unshielded mage. Haha it's basically backfiring on us.

    I also tested in TDM extensively. All I hear is "Mage heal." At the end of the TDM games, the rogues are all getting 7 or 8 kills and now I'm only getting 2 or 3 because I'm limited to 2 attack skills. Anyone who plays TDM know I am usually the leading scorer in most games or at least 2nd most kills. Now I'm getting 2. Lol gg. That's why I said this nerf campaign was premature.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColaxRic View Post
    Do you realise how weak the mage heal was compared to other class heals? Yes, it can also heal mana but had no special addition and it only heals an average amount once. Since both Warrior and Rogue heals have heal over time with very decent amount, this buff is quite fair.
    Seriously, the rogue heal was previously better than the mage heal. And to some degree it still is because rogues can stack up packs. How many times have you all seen packs left behind and unused? That tells us it heals more than even needed. That's why I lol'd when i saw the nerf thread. Mage is the weakest class in pvp and needed this buff badly

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    I think none of you is watching these from a twink perspectiva view finally twink mages have a decent heal that is not only 50%hp while rogues heal over 105%hp..... Game is not only about endgame most PvP maps are played on twink brackets )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandros View Post
    I think none of you is watching these from a twink perspectiva view finally twink mages have a decent heal that is not only 50%hp while rogues heal over 105%hp..... Game is not only about endgame most PvP maps are played on twink brackets )
    What I wanted to say but I just couldn't word it. In twinks, mages never beat rogues when both has close to equal gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Clash should be where a Mage belongs, correct. However, when the class can replace a rogue's role in a clash, then it's severely imbalanced. I understand if you only need one rogue, but not needing any rogue is akin to not needing a warrior in PvE.
    But speaking of balance, I always hate seeing one class, rogue, dominating nearly every aspect of the game. That's imbalance.

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    Pls STG dont nerf this skill, i mean even if its better than rogues heal...cmon rogues ruled PvP for way too long time dnt complain if it doesnt keep that way I understand many of you have invested lot of gold gearing ur rogué full of para but pls dnt try to manipulare this on rogues favour..... Still tanks heal is the best since 3seconds invulnerabilidad means A LOT in all brackets even more at endgame

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    This was a needed buff for twink brackets and none active twink player cant say it wasnt dnt only watch it as a endgame player perspective pls
    Ty

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    I agree that this was an unneeded buff also making pvp clashes unfair and i think that tank is a class that should be buffed instead of sorcerer.

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