[Feedback] Mage Heal Upgrade

[KnowledgeFTW]

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

100% agree, finally a reasonable player who isn't crying over this buff that's more PvE oriented, not PvP!

[Zeus]

Well mate seems that you dnt happem to know that any changes whatsoever happens on endgame affect every single lv aka all PvP maps so pls take your cry rogué problems to another game

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

[Eldorado]

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

Nekro shield should never be an issue because not only mage can use them but all of the other class.

[Zeus]

Wow!

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion

Yes, but when they're players that do not understand game mechanics, then there should be some sort of filter. M

@Ener
Mage isn't support class here, there's a developer quote on it so there's no need for the heal to be the most powerful. I do feel like they overshot and a figure of 500 HP per second for 5 seconds seems more appropriate.

[Alejandros]

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

Agreed to this that being said mages should get over 1k hp per tick tho but nerf the heal isnt the solution either, maybe put a max of 1khp heal pero tick or sth like that(dnt know if its posible to do that)

[Zeus]

Nekro shield should never be an issue because not only mage can use them but all of the other class.

It is an issue as sorcerers can hold off on Nekro for longer as damage reduction does not stack.

[Energizeric]

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

Yes, this is the solution. As has been expressed, this is a change that was very needed for twink levels.

[Alejandros]

Parth:

I didn't have time to read this whole debate, but here are my thoughts:

1) At end game you are somewhat correct. The heal is a bit OP now. But before the regrowth upgrade was so useless that nobody used it. Now I agree it is a little bit OP. So perhaps the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Remember that to use this upgrade it means switching a skill point from something else.

IMO every skill upgrade should be equally useful. So when there is a skill upgrade that nobody ever uses, then STS needs to either change or buff that skill point so that some people start to use it. But if everyone is using it, then perhaps it is buffed too much.

2) At twink levels, sorcerers have always been somewhat useless except as a support class to cast the occasional curse in PvP. Just go into twink pvp fights and you rarely even see a sorcerer because nobody wants to play them. When I first started out at level 10, I was told not even to bother and that I should choose another class. Well I spent many millions and ended up putting together an 8 para PvP set with Nekro, and I have by far the highest damage of any player at level 10 (over 150 damage with Nightshade). Even still, there are level 10 warriors who can just stand there and heal in a 1-on-1 battle and not even fight back and I can't kill them. And there are rogues that can take me down in 1-on-1 battles very easy.

So this sort of change was necessary for twink levels. I still don't know that it fixes everything, but it certainly helps and in time I will make that determination.

So perhaps they need to scale this skill upgrade a bit differently. Maybe leave it as is for lower levels, but do not scale it to higher levels as steep as the current scaling is. I think maybe that is the best solution.


On a side note, I always have thought that sorcerers/mages should have the best heal skill. That is how it is in every other MMO I am aware of.

A true judge of how OP (or not) a certain class is in PvP is KDRs. Take a look at some of the best PvP sorcerers and tell me what their KDRs are, then look at the same for rogues and warriors, and then tell me who is OP. Or better yet, look at the leaderboards for PvP and tell me who dominates those leaderboards.

+1 to this mage buff on twinks was needed

[Zeus]

Agreed to this that being said mages should get over 1k hp per tick tho but nerf the heal isnt the solution either, maybe put a max of 1khp heal pero tick or sth like that(dnt know if its posible to do that)

Rogue packs get 30% HP per pack and are significantly harder to get oneself to be healed with. Why would a sorcerer get 66% of that in one tick on top of a nearly full health heal?

[KnowledgeFTW]

OKAY I admit this buff to Lifegiver is a BIT OP. But before nobody used it and now people are upset that STS trys to make heal more alive?
This buff is somewhat useful now to twink mages, before this twinking smurfs were seen as support class rather than AoE, and mages barely won 1v1 to rouges.
After this buff, rouges can still over power us mages very fast. Remember this buff, was meant to be more PvE oriented, not PvP. Rouges still dominate PvP, so I don't know why so many rouges are upset. We don't want a skill nobody's gonna use. Don't criticize STS for doing good work and instead thank them for putting up with our complaning points. But I do agree that this skill upgrade may have been buffed to much haha. Still, I don't want any more nerfs or buffs to heal, except reduced cool down time in exchange for less Mana/health regen.

Thank you and have a good day.
NOTE: Its fine if you don't agree with me but don't criticize me for having an honest opinion, amen.

[shinyx]

Any other level of PvP is irrelevant, as proven by twink tournaments that barely managed to occur (lack of participation). That being said, there should be a scale that keeps the heal relatively useful for twinks but scaled appropriate for end game.

Why do you keep saying it's not appropriate? Based on what testing? It's only been 24 hours. This thread is a downward spiral. Maybe it would have been appropriate after a month or a few weeks but it's been 24 hours. As I said already. So much presumption and baseless argument. Since you say you like to work out, you'll know what I mean when i say it's "Bro Science"

[Eldorado]

It is an issue as sorcerers can hold off on Nekro for longer as damage reduction does not stack.

They can hold on much longer but as stated normally mages only have that shield but now even rogue and warriors can have the shield. Longer yes, because they have the shield to begin with.

[Alejandros]

Rogue packs get 30% HP per pack and are significantly harder to get oneself to be healed with. Why would a sorcerer get 66% of that in one tick on top of a nearly full health heal?

I think you are forgetting: First that rogue's can stock of packs while mages can only heal once(would matter a lot when a mage decides to heal), second that rogue's cd are extremely short and they can output insane dmg in less time than any other class given that 15% armor debuff from aim cancels any armor buff, so even nekro mages will get around 5seconds with no shield whatsoever making it a 1combo mage

[shinyx]

They can hold on much longer but as stated normally mages only have that shield but now even rogue and warriors can have the shield. Longer yes, because they have the shield to begin with.

AND we have to use a skill slot for that shield.

[Energizeric]

Well so it looks like rogues are the 1on1 beasts which no other class can beat equaly geared and mages/warriors own the team battlefield.

Consequences?

As a mage just join teamfights, stay away from any vs except other mages... LOL
As rogue just 1 shot/combo all players and stay away from teamfights... LOL
As warrior well you are somehow good to go for everything again? Reminds me of the AL-pvp beginning where the windmill killed everything and tanks were op... or the 1.5 years where arcane maul was glitched and stunlocked like hell.

gg!

You do make some really good points. When mages used to complain about not being able to win 1-on-1 battles, we were told that mages were not supposed to be good in 1-on-1 situations and that we were made to battle groups with our DoT skills, like in a clash. We were told that rogues are so good in 1-on-1 situations because they were meant for that with their high target/high crit single target attack skills.

But apparently rogues also think they should be just as good as the other classes in clashes too. And now if they are somewhat less useful than a mage, that is no good for them.

As Zeus said in the other thread, Rogues are indeed the most popular class in AL, and the reason is because they have always been the most OP. They are the only class that can solo elite dungeons. They are masters of taking down bosses and in 1-on-1 battles in PvP. They own the leaderboards for every event we have ever had. They own the leaderboards for PvP. And they own the leaderboards for timed runs as well.

Perhaps Zeus is saying that because Rogues are the most popular, that they must be kept as the most OP class in order to keep the majority of players happy. Silly me I thought the goal was for balance.

Balance can mean many things. It can mean that all classes are equally good in every situation -- clearly NOT the case in AL. Or it could mean each class is equally good in certain situations, while equally bad in others. So what exactly are rogues bad at?

[shinyx]

You do make some really good points. When mages used to complain about not being able to win 1-on-1 battles, we were told that mages were not supposed to be good in 1-on-1 situations and that we were made to battle groups with our DoT skills, like in a clash. We were told that rogues are so good in 1-on-1 situations because they were meant for that with their high target/high crit single target attack skills.

But apparently rogues also think they should be just as good as the other classes in clashes too. And now if they are somewhat less useful than a mage, that is no good for them.

As Zeus said in the other thread, Rogues are indeed the most popular class in AL, and the reason is because they have always been the most OP. They are the only class that can solo elite dungeons. They are masters of taking down bosses and in 1-on-1 battles in PvP. They own the leaderboards for every event we have ever had. They own the leaderboards for PvP. And they own the leaderboards for timed runs as well.

Perhaps Zeus is saying that because Rogues are the most popular, that they must be kept as the most OP class in order to keep the majority of players happy. Silly me I thought the goal was for balance.

Balance can mean many things. It can mean that all classes are equally good in every situation -- clearly NOT the case in AL. Or it could mean each class is equally good in certain situations, while equally bad in others. So what exactly are rogues bad at?

A lot of what comes out of your mouth is gold. This is one of those times too

[shinyx]

Rogue packs get 30% HP per pack and are significantly harder to get oneself to be healed with. Why would a sorcerer get 66% of that in one tick on top of a nearly full health heal?

Since it fills up our hp 100%, have you considered that most of the ticks are wasted? And most of the hp from each tick is wasted? That's why we need a stong regen so that it heals when needed.

[Energizeric]

Perhaps you would rather enjoy playing a dead game. Keep in mind that rogue is the most popular class - imagine what's going to happen when they're not longer viable in PvP clashes (something rogues are already facing an issue with).

When mages used to complain about not being able to win 1-on-1 battles, we were told that mages were not supposed to be good in 1-on-1 situations and that we were made to battle groups with our DoT skills, like in a clash. We were told that rogues are so good in 1-on-1 situations because they were meant for that with their high target/high crit single target attack skills.

But apparently rogues also think they should be just as good as the other classes in clashes too. And now if they are somewhat less useful than a mage, that is no good for them.

Yes, Rogues are indeed the most popular class in AL, and the reason is because they are the most OP. They are the only class that can solo elite dungeons (with the small exception of a few OP and very skilled players). They are masters of taking down bosses and in 1-on-1 battles in PvP. They own the leaderboards for every event we have ever had. They own the leaderboards for PvP. And they own the leaderboards for timed runs as well.

Are you saying that because Rogues are the most popular, that they must be kept as the most OP class in order to keep the majority of players happy? Silly me I thought the goal was for balance.

Balance can mean many things. It can mean that all classes are equally good in every situation -- clearly NOT the case in AL. Or it could mean each class is equally good in certain situations, while equally bad in others. So what exactly are rogues bad at? Maybe now there will actually be an answer to this question.

[Excuses]

Tbh I'm enjoying this heal very much. (my twink is a mage)
Now twink mages can stand up for vs with other class.
Rogue is doable, tank is still hard. Perfectly balanced as 'rock paper scissors' role.
5 sec idea was brilliant because that's the pro and con of this HOT.

I do not know about end game but I know mages are annoying in clash. But I see this more as stacking class problem. Stacking more than 3 of same class always cause imbalance. I would rather like to suggest to have a class restriction that we can not have more than 2 of same class on same side. No more tank and mage stack then problem will be solved. I know this will cause another problem but just wanted to address the real problem of pvp system.


And I also second that warrior need buff on both pvp and pve. Pvp must be scaled by level tho.

[Zeus]

Tbh I'm enjoying this heal very much. (my twink is a mage)
Now twink mages can stand up for vs with other class.
Rogue is doable, tank is still hard. Perfectly balanced as 'rock paper scissors' role.
5 sec idea was brilliant because that's the pro and con of this HOT.

I do not know about end game but I know mages are annoying in clash. But I see this more as stacking class problem. Stacking more than 3 of same class is always cause imbalance. I would rather like to suggest to have a class restriction that we can not have more than 2 of same class on same side. No more tank and mage stack than problem will be solved. I know this will cause another problem but just wanted to address the real problem of pvp system.


And I also second that warrior need buff on both pvp and pve. Pvp must be scaled by level tho.

This would also be a great solution.