"buff warriors"

[G-M]

All of the fixes mentioned by Madnex are great ideas. As mentioned by madnex.....this simplest and easiest way to make warriors needed in AL is to make a requirement to have a warrior in a party with obstacles that can only be cleared by a warrior. Heck even do that for a mage as well. So now all parties must have at least one warrior and mage. Yeah yeah people will complain but they will get over it. Now all parties will be a mixed party and all classes will have a role. This takes very little effort or time. Also this will forever changed timed runs. Now a LB timed run party will need a very good warrior and a very good mage as opposed to doing the same old boring all rogue parties.

Do you think requiring players to always run with at least two other players would be too restrictive? Ideally you'll always have at least two players running with you but realistically we can't expect that to always be the case.

[Edward Coug]

Do you think requiring players to always run with at least two other players would be too restrictive? Ideally you'll always have at least two players running with you but realistically we can't expect that to always be the case.

I don't want to be prevented from soloing or forced to party with a warrior just to pass some stupid obstacle. I would much rather have warriors improved so they are desirable to have in parties.

[Dex Scene]

Rouges hav dodge,crit and long range,mage have shield,crit and long range,warriors have aahhh high hp and armor they die easy..some warriors hav high damage but they cant still deal massive damage like rouges and mage coz of low crit..having a high armor is actually not much helpful coz mobs can kill u with two hits..damage reduction on warriors shud be high and could withstand many mobs while doing aggro..not too keep on taping pots just to stay alive..warriors are made to resist to endure damage to survive and tolerate attacks from enemys while protecting the party..

Warriors do need buffs in pve but I kinda disagree at the long range part.
If you know what an Axe throw can do, you would know warriors have the longest range.
But also who uses axe throw in pve apart from the boss part.

Armor does help alot.
It always did great and warriors were good until those one hit ko came. It seems to be broken when those mele attacks deals like what 1000000 Damage and results in one hit KO. This is what minimize a warrior's potency by most.

Some environments are fine with having the ability to do one hit ko but mobs and bosses shouldn't do that.

And the most obvious taunt part. Warriors can't taunt and keep agro at lots of newer stuffs . They cant taunt environmental stuffs like mushrooms n all which also be looked at.

Back in old time, the class difference was not big when mages could freeze mobs warriors could kill them solo aswel.

I hope warriors get buff but it shouldn't affect pvp. A PVE buff with some exclusive PVE skills can be given to warriors which only work in Pve just like banish freeze they work in pve and not in PVP.




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[Dex Scene]

Do you think requiring players to always run with at least two other players would be too restrictive? Ideally you'll always have at least two players running with you but realistically we can't expect that to always be the case.

Exactly.
We want a game where we can run with any class. Mixed class can be bonus but should be doable with any class party.
Just like Not wanting warriors in a team is something unfair, forcing people to get a warrior in the team in unfair sameway.

Can't you guys increase the mob density without affecting the lag issue? I think if you increase the mob density with unparkable mobs can help a bit. Also if the events are made on something but just bosses can help other classes. Just my opinion.

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[Earlingstad]

Warriors have a problem in pve and not pvp and as such if any alteration is made to their skill system it should be done so that it is useful in pve and does not alter pvp. The Taunt over time and CS cancelling red zones are great ideas.

That being said, maxed rogues can do it all in pve without warriors mainly because of their gear and not just because of their skills. When the gear worn by rogues is giving a rogue everything, why would she need a tank? Since the release of the Arcane Ring itself, warriors have been left out more often.

If all endgame maxed rogue gear was focused on dps only and if the gear did not make the rogue so durable (with tons of hp and armor too) that a tank is not even needed in the party for tanking, we would have had no problems. So mobs should be designed in a way that they 1 shot rogues and mages often enough or debuff hp/armor excessively to the point that they have to have tanks in the party.

[Cody Black]

I don't want to be prevented from soloing or forced to party with a warrior just to pass some stupid obstacle. I would much rather have warriors improved so they are desirable to have in parties.

I agree, don't force us to play with other people.

Raise our damage reduction and make it where we can complete a map faster solo - if you can solo faster you will be faster in a group also. The problem is we kill too slow and we are not strong enough to survive elite monsters. If you fix that, then getting a party will be easy.

[Madnex]

I'll talk to our design team about Chest Splitter Madnex.

One of the biggest issues I see mentioned with Warriors is that players want to run dungeons fast, and running with a Warrior is slower than running with a Rogue. Do you think that making Chest Splitter cancel wind-ups will speed up runs? Will a taunt-over-time effect speed up runs?

I could see those two things definitely resulting in fewer potions and ankhs needing to be used which would be helpful. Do you think that's enough to make it worth taking a Warrior on a run even if it will slow the run down somewhat?

Well, part of the problem is that the elites are actually possible/faster without a tank, which kind of voids the Warrior's class strong suit. Of course, throwing in insane damage or other extreme buffs will most definitely have unwanted effects and that is why this small change is proposed as a first step.

In an ideal party environment, a tank is able to soak up most if not all of the damage. For example, he'd have a Juggernaut-like skill which would allow for immense survivability (it's a mix of two skills from -ironically- a rogue tank build, borrowing from a major pc MMORPG): 90% damage reduction for 10s, applies shield that regains 50% of the HP if the caster's HP hits zero -- only happens once per cast. CD 18s.

Of course, this skill suggestion will be relevant only after there are changes in place that will allow the tanks to properly keep aggro.

[Serancha]

Do you think requiring players to always run with at least two other players would be too restrictive? Ideally you'll always have at least two players running with you but realistically we can't expect that to always be the case.

A lot of people like to solo, either as a challenge or sometimes they're playing to take a break from dealing with people. Sometimes there isn't anyone around to run with either. I don't think this would be a good thing at all.

[Madnex]

Do you think requiring players to always run with at least two other players would be too restrictive? Ideally you'll always have at least two players running with you but realistically we can't expect that to always be the case.

This is probably not a feasible change at this point due to AL's relatively small population online at a time. But just to entertain the idea, the obstacles could be cleared by the other classes as well but it would require much more time.

Eg. A warrior would cut down said oak in two seconds. No warrior in party? 30 seconds and the obstacle is cleared from the other classes. Imagine 4-5 said objects in a map. And 8-10 more for the other two classes.

On a sidenote, this idea could be applied for bonus areas instead that would branch off the main path. With adequately decent rewards to be worthwhile.

[Midievalmodel]

Warriors should be improved so that players want them in parties. They shouldn't be shoehorned in with unnatural obstacles thrown into a map. This would be a lazy fix and would really turn me off from the game.

You make a very valid point. I guess the reason I am thinking of such a radical change is because its tough to imagine STG being able to fix this issue without doing some major overhauling of the skills system which at the same time will create other unthought of imbalances that arrises with these big fixes. Also concerned that they can't make these fixes in a timely manner which would require too much of their resources. Lets pretend they fix chest splitter skill so that it is able to cancel all boss windups in maps and they increase taunt durations and effectiveness on all skills. Now what...."all rogue" parties will still happen because its still faster to run maps without warriors. In addition, the bosses in the new elites rarely one hit rogues anymore and are much weaker compared to old school bosses. So why would anyone still need a warrior? In addition low mob counts and very small leash ranges make our taunt skills even less needed. Due to serve lag and performance issues STG can't fix this aspect of the game. So now what?

Oh how about increasing warriors damage output and decreasing their skill CD so that they can cycle through high damage skills alot quicker. Oh wait then warriors will become super rogues with crazy high armor. Perhaps this wont work either. Oh hey why not just increase warriors damage a little but still be subpar to rogues....oh wait then all rogue parties are still preferred.

How about providing warriors with huge party buffs and they would really be needed in elites. That sounds like probably the most viable idea but its implications on game mechanics in terms of ease of runnning maps is unknown. What if these buffs to the party make running maps way to easy by providing overpowering buffs to the party? Because at the rate at which pets provide buffs....STG has to make the warrior buffs ridiculously high in order to feel a difference over the pets being used.

Currently the direction STG is taking with event based maps and easier elite maps that require high volume of runs to gather high volume of ingredients for farmable items is gonna make all of the changes to warriors ineffective. In addition the combination of low mob counts and small leash range due to limitations of server lag, the introduction of ankhs, and rogues having too high of armor, dodge, crit and damage makes all these small fixes to warrior not enough.

[Ebezaanec]

I am toying around with this idea of mobs debuffing other classes.

The mobs can apply a 'drain' status effect on players which would deplete their health over time. Warriors would be immune to said effect, and their HoR would remove it from other party members.

I dislike the system of one-hits the game has embraced, so I figured this would be more viable. By running without warriors (and their heal), rogues and mages would have to focus on spamming potions to stay alive.

Now this effect won't be applied with every mob attack, but it should be frequent enough to be effective in encouraging parties with warriors.

[Otahaanak]

Two things have been mentioned that I think have a lot to do with where we are now with Warriors. Overpowered pets with abilities once reserved for other classes, and the rise of Rogue (and now Mage) armor.

I don't see pets reverting now, but maybe it's time to get creative with pet abilities so a pet isn't preferred as a replacement for party members.

The armor disparity is huge. I switched to rogue this season and can solo just about any map I want to run (not all maps,obviously).

I think it's time to look at those two things as another place to bring warriors back into the game.
I agree with you Midi, not sure that fixing a skill and improving aggro are going to make any real difference with the current state of the game. I switched to rogue this season from mage. I bought a ring, crafted the pendant, bought Nekro, and I can solo, or tank elite Ran maps. Giving Warriors more taunt and fixing a skill s won't not change that fact. I'm not saying they shouldn't be done, I believe they should, to prepare for the next cap when the problems can be further addressed.

One other suggestion, please keep the community in the loop on what you are thinking about implementing or proposed changes.


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[Midievalmodel]

I am gonna quote an idea that was brought up by Energizeric: He posts: "This idea has been mentioned before, but another solution is to add multi-class combinations. In Pocket Legends there were combos which required all 3 classes to use certain skills in a certain order within seconds of each other. Even while running pugs you would still end up landing some combos as it just seems to happen randomly. And with a good party that has some chemistry, it can be deadly."

This maybe a viable solution and seems to have been implemented before on previous a legend title. This is actually in a way "forcing a mixed group party". Sounds more appealing than making an obstacle that a warrior has to clear for the party to move on. But if you look at the bottom line the concept is to force a "mixed" party.

Below is link to Energizeric's original post.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-PVE-and/page2

[Jirikjurasek]

Maybe:
1. CS can cancell windups-to ensure party is not affected with aoe dmg and stuns and then:
2. Taunt over time to ensure party is free to act
3. Mobs debuffs - to ensure quicker kills
4. Party buff - not sure which but who wouldnt want the extra buff ... specially since if its crit and only if its stackable stackable

This may sound like over kill but if you look at the current social climate on warriors in parties, a drastic increase is necessary to change the consensus on warrior efficientcy in pve

I hope this helps.

Thanks

Maarkus

In Nordr expansion warriors were needed in elite parties even without this.

The only difference since that time are:
1) Mobs damage - mobs get far less damage than before
2) Players armor - rogues gear has too much armor value and in opposite warriors gear has too small armor value.
3) Boss normal attack - is far lower than ever before. I remember when rogue/mage canīt survive Grimnr normal attack (scaled for full party)
4) Juggernut - this skill add 500 HP since it was released. Warriors survivability with Juggernaut fall down as level go up. There has to be some scale with character level (2000 HP or more at lvl 46)
5) Nekro - has far FAR better AA than Juggernaut. Damage reduction is 40% (Jugg has 30%) and it is for whole party. With 2 Nekros all rogues party have survivability as tank (better because of dodge)

@Taunt over time: in previous expansions warriors were able to hold aggro on big amount of mobs. In combination with mages they can manage almost infinity pulls. If holding aggro is impossible on 5 mobs now, there has to be different problem:
1) new mobs ignore taunts
2) warriors are focused on damage and have incorrect skills for taunting

Warrior didnīt have any party damage buff for speed up runs. Warriors was simply needed to complete runs because warr was the only class who can survive in the group of mobs.

[ketoh]

mmmm ... maybe now is his time we are the warrior to take this weapon to hit the enemy and the enemy stun proc :hancur:

[Maarkus]

I'll talk to our design team about Chest Splitter Madnex.

One of the biggest issues I see mentioned with Warriors is that players want to run dungeons fast, and running with a Warrior is slower than running with a Rogue. Do you think that making Chest Splitter cancel wind-ups will speed up runs? Will a taunt-over-time effect speed up runs?

I could see those two things definitely resulting in fewer potions and ankhs needing to be used which would be helpful. Do you think that's enough to make it worth taking a Warrior on a run even if it will slow the run down somewhat?

Any news?
Thanks

[Cody Black]

Any news?
Thanks

Put a debuff, damage reduction, cancel wind ups on chest splitter for pve only and it would change for warriors.

[MyIGNisVibing]

Or make tanks have 6000 armor and increase their heal to 5000 for 90 seconds and then if that isn't enough make an arcane blade that gives warriors 1000 damage and 1500 DPS.

Seriously, are we ever going to stop complaining that one class is underpowered? It really never ends with you guys. I see SEVERAL warriors in endgame that are very good and can hang with the best of rogues and mages. If you don't have top tier gear and think to yourself "well maybe if warriors were a bit stronger" simply x that out of your brain and work on obtaining some better gear.

DO NOT blame STS for this thought that runs through your mind as you run around with a blinky comparing yourself to a 3 para 10 eye rogue.

The buffs and nerfs have to stop at some point and in my opinion each class has it's own role and all of them are just about as good as they can be.

I do agree that warriors might not be the best class for pve.. But really what do you expect its a tank/support class you're not going to be doing 1000 damage and just destroying mobs..

Rogue / mage parties will always be faster due to higher damage output and better aoe damage. Maybe there is a way to give warriors a bit more aoe, but that would probably end up being overpowered in PvP.



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[Upperbound]

Take war with new rengol legendary items and rogue/mage with new rengol legendary items. Thats what most of players have. Compare stats and what could they do in pve / pvp. More questions why wars need buff?
I can only hear "need dps" in GC, never heard " need war". Lucky I Am rogue

[Cody Black]

Or make tanks have 6000 armor and increase their heal to 5000 for 90 seconds and then if that isn't enough make an arcane blade that gives warriors 1000 damage and 1500 DPS.

Seriously, are we ever going to stop complaining that one class is underpowered? It really never ends with you guys. I see SEVERAL warriors in endgame that are very good and can hang with the best of rogues and mages. If you don't have top tier gear and think to yourself "well maybe if warriors were a bit stronger" simply x that out of your brain and work on obtaining some better gear.

DO NOT blame STS for this thought that runs through your mind as you run around with a blinky comparing yourself to a 3 para 10 eye rogue.

The buffs and nerfs have to stop at some point and in my opinion each class has it's own role and all of them are just about as good as they can be.

I do agree that warriors might not be the best class for pve.. But really what do you expect its a tank/support class you're not going to be doing 1000 damage and just destroying mobs..

Rogue / mage parties will always be faster due to higher damage output and better aoe damage. Maybe there is a way to give warriors a bit more aoe, but that would probably end up being overpowered in PvP.



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You must play a rogue. So you're saying this game is mostly about pvp? So it's ok for the rogue class to own the leaderboards, farming, and pvp? Why are you anti-pve buff for warriors?