#savethetank

**boljackz** · 10-27-2015, 01:59 AM

if u agree to buff war fix jugg and buff new mythic weapon comment here

let see how many will agree to buff us poor warrior

**Tabeer Amin** · 10-27-2015, 02:01 AM

Buff those poor souls
Or buff thier weap

**Arkiouj** · 10-27-2015, 09:00 AM

Yes, buff! It's the Class that needs buffing not the wep.

**Kyle Paule** · 10-27-2015, 09:03 AM

YaAah buff them we want more thrill -rouges

**Dex Putra** · 10-27-2015, 09:08 AM

R.I.P tank .

Sent from my D5322 using Tapatalk

**Zylx** · 10-27-2015, 01:45 PM

You know, i see all these "buff tanks" "buff mages" threads being created so often, and I have yet to read any good, legitimate suggestions on how STS would "buff" whatever. Its like telling your hair stylist you want to look different.

**Ipoopsy** · 10-27-2015, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Zylx

You know, i see all these "buff tanks" "buff mages" threads being created so often, and I have yet to read any good, legitimate suggestions on how STS would "buff" whatever. Its like telling your hair stylist you want to look different.

Because most players never look at it as a whole. Your right, everyone wants to buff this buff that. But in Reality, Wars and Mage are fine in all Lvl for PVE and PVP. It's just that the Rogs are just too OP in ALL lvl of PVE and PVP.

Rog should have a slightly nerf, because:

1. That gives War a chance to be grp for PVE.
2. Mage similar to #1
3. PVP will slightly be Balance.

That's the lesser of Two Evils.

The more Players want's buffs for certain classes, the more it will be broken.

Most Rogs who will read this will probably disagree, because they want to be OP in ALL lvls, they just don't care about the stability of the game.

**Franocazzzo** · 10-27-2015, 02:50 PM

Rogues are fine your completely wrong. Nerf them and mages will rule them all the time in clash. Buff tanks ty

**pompous** · 10-27-2015, 02:57 PM

I was previously a proponent of buffing the new weapon. However, after testing it out in PVE, it is extremely OP. I will challenge any Pro and maxed out mage that I can clear a dense, elite mob with my warrior faster than your mage. The proc on this weapon is amazing but everyone is looking at this from a PVP standpoint. With regards to PVP, yes, fix juggernaut

**Ardbeg** · 10-27-2015, 03:11 PM

the weapon is indeed very fine for pve. i still think it needs some armor and hp especially when combined with the full glintstone set, but pve wise i have a lot of fun with it in mixed parties as it should be. i am not qualified to comment on pvp but i think it s obvious this needs another weapon. maybe xmas.

**Khicho** · 10-27-2015, 03:23 PM

This isn't news. Warriors need a buff! There have been so many reason why this needed and there have been MANY threads why supporting information to validate it.

The bottom line. STS why are you ignoring this? This is not a new topic or issue. It has gone on for months.

Your customers are asking/begging you to address this!

**Maarkus** · 10-27-2015, 03:52 PM

Yes please ... Thanks for keeping the issue out there. Too dissapointed to reiterate everything i suggested.
Thanks
Maarkus

**DarrenPR** · 10-27-2015, 04:25 PM

Let me throw a completely different angle at the situation...

Warriors generally get tossed to the side when it comes to end game elites. I think we can all agree to that. Now we must ask the question, "Why do tanks get tossed to the side?"

In my experience, talking to people of several guilds, and poking my head around the forums a bit, I believe the general consensus is something to the effect of "They die too fast and their low damage makes the runs slower." There are a lot of people who refer to the warrior class now as a "Paper Tank", which is actually a legitimate assertation in my opinion. I do agree that for the current state of end game, the warriors are just that - paper.

But with that said you have to ask the question of why these warriors are considered weak, easily torn apart, paper. I believe that it is actually not the fault of the class itself causing the opinions of warriors that players have, but the methodology with which SpaceTime develops the "difficulty" of the end game maps. Objectively looking at two end game maxed out players, one being a rogue and one being a warrior, you will find the rogue has somewhere around 5,000 health and 2,000 armor whereas the warrior will have 9,000-10,000 health (can be boosted with skills) and around 3,000 armor. This makes the warrior class the objective more survivable class of the two - it has nearly double the health and 50% more armor than the rogue does... So why do people call them paper? Why are they excluded from parties?

As I mentioned above, I believe the reason for this is the way the game developers are creating the difficulty for us players. Currently, "difficulty" comes from a small number of mobs that can stun you and quickly take your health to 0 (and by quickly, I mean in a single hit). This happens to be true for warriors as well, even with their massive health and armor advantage, you can (or at least have been able to) see warriors going from full 9,500 health to a dead pixelated mess on the ground in a single smack. This takes away any advantage the warrior has with regards to health, as now they are on the same level as everybody else - able to die in 1 hit. So, what's left to look at when considering a warrior for the party? Everybody's favorite thing to ask for - damage.

The warrior class is meant to be a class that can take a beating, a tank. By classic MMO definition, a tank's job isn't to deal damage to mobs, but to keep the rest of your party alive by keeping the mobs attacking you while you keep them alive with your support health spells. As we can see from the skills of a warrior class, this was entirely the intention STS had for the warrior class. This is why I disagree with people asking for more damage on a warrior... It does NOT fix the real issue behind why warriors get shunned from parties.

I believe that in order to bring usefulness back to warriors, the maps need to be designed in such a way that it makes their advantage useful again. How do we do this? We make the maps have a high density of mobs which have less damage than current end game elite maps - something where a warrior could hold the aggro of 20-30 mobs and survive, where someone with half health and 2/3 the armor couldn't. This would bring warriors back into the game, because they would actually be needed. As it stands, there is not much motivation to bring a warrior along with a run, because they don't add the benefit of keeping the party alive... They just fall dead like everybody else.

Now, with all that said, don't get me wrong. I do think that the taunting system and some of the warrior skills do need a fix, because they certainly not acting as they should, but I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that constantly buffing the class and making it stronger is the correct way to solve the issue we currently have with warriors. Just my two cents on the matter, though.

**Madnex** · 10-27-2015, 04:47 PM

Jugg should've been way more tank-like: 90% dmg reduction, immunity to stuns, pushes and pulls, double the taunt AoE bursts, lasts 10s with 25s CD. Applies 15 crit debuff and 10 dmg debuff.

Direct damage buffs would be a wrong move. Longer-lasting feebles, extended taunt effect's potency, more one-hit red zones that can and need to be interrupted; that's more around the lines of what a tank should be providing.

**Ardbeg** · 10-27-2015, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by DarrenPR

Let me throw a completely different angle at the situation...

Warriors generally get tossed to the side when it comes to end game elites. I think we can all agree to that. Now we must ask the question, "Why do tanks get tossed to the side?"

In my experience, talking to people of several guilds, and poking my head around the forums a bit, I believe the general consensus is something to the effect of "They die too fast and their low damage makes the runs slower." There are a lot of people who refer to the warrior class now as a "Paper Tank", which is actually a legitimate assertation in my opinion. I do agree that for the current state of end game, the warriors are just that - paper.

But with that said you have to ask the question of why these warriors are considered weak, easily torn apart, paper. I believe that it is actually not the fault of the class itself causing the opinions of warriors that players have, but the methodology with which SpaceTime develops the "difficulty" of the end game maps. Objectively looking at two end game maxed out players, one being a rogue and one being a warrior, you will find the rogue has somewhere around 5,000 health and 2,000 armor whereas the warrior will have 9,000-10,000 health (can be boosted with skills) and around 3,000 armor. This makes the warrior class the objective more survivable class of the two - it has nearly double the health and 50% more armor than the rogue does... So why do people call them paper? Why are they excluded from parties?

As I mentioned above, I believe the reason for this is the way the game developers are creating the difficulty for us players. Currently, "difficulty" comes from a small number of mobs that can stun you and quickly take your health to 0 (and by quickly, I mean in a single hit). This happens to be true for warriors as well, even with their massive health and armor advantage, you can (or at least have been able to) see warriors going from full 9,500 health to a dead pixelated mess on the ground in a single smack. This takes away any advantage the warrior has with regards to health, as now they are on the same level as everybody else - able to die in 1 hit. So, what's left to look at when considering a warrior for the party? Everybody's favorite thing to ask for - damage.

The warrior class is meant to be a class that can take a beating, a tank. By classic MMO definition, a tank's job isn't to deal damage to mobs, but to keep the rest of your party alive by keeping the mobs attacking you while you keep them alive with your support health spells. As we can see from the skills of a warrior class, this was entirely the intention STS had for the warrior class. This is why I disagree with people asking for more damage on a warrior... It does NOT fix the real issue behind why warriors get shunned from parties.

I believe that in order to bring usefulness back to warriors, the maps need to be designed in such a way that it makes their advantage useful again. How do we do this? We make the maps have a high density of mobs which have less damage than current end game elite maps - something where a warrior could hold the aggro of 20-30 mobs and survive, where someone with half health and 2/3 the armor couldn't. This would bring warriors back into the game, because they would actually be needed. As it stands, there is not much motivation to bring a warrior along with a run, because they don't add the benefit of keeping the party alive... They just fall dead like everybody else.

Now, with all that said, don't get me wrong. I do think that the taunting system and some of the warrior skills do need a fix, because they certainly not acting as they should, but I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that constantly buffing the class and making it stronger is the correct way to solve the issue we currently have with warriors. Just my two cents on the matter, though.

you have some very good points here. please factor in rogues have a lot of dodge in addition to their armor and hp now (which i guess is way better suited to avoid the current one hits no tank can survive). in earlier stages of the game mob density was indeed much higher and pet skills did not surpass warrior capabilities. now the density was reduced intentionally to avoid lag issues while pets could easily replace a warrior (nekro, breeze,...), so i don t see the density go up again.
i don t expect tanks to be a dps class. but running with a (capable) tank should not take significant longer than without. in my opinion tanks need better debuff capabilities, especially compared to current pets.

**zerofort** · 10-27-2015, 06:42 PM

Long cool down for potions

**pompous** · 10-27-2015, 06:48 PM

it would be helpful if a dev or mod acknowledged one one these tank threads and let us know something like, "we hear ya, we're working on it, we will have a solution by such a date." But it's frustrating when nobody knows what's going on and if a fix is coming soon or not.

**Zeus** · 10-27-2015, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ipoopsy

Because most players never look at it as a whole. Your right, everyone wants to buff this buff that. But in Reality, Wars and Mage are fine in all Lvl for PVE and PVP. It's just that the Rogs are just too OP in ALL lvl of PVE and PVP.

Rog should have a slightly nerf, because:

1. That gives War a chance to be grp for PVE.
2. Mage similar to #1
3. PVP will slightly be Balance.

That's the lesser of Two Evils.

The more Players want's buffs for certain classes, the more it will be broken.

Most Rogs who will read this will probably disagree, because they want to be OP in ALL lvls, they just don't care about the stability of the game.

1. If rogues go slower, there's no way that they will want to go even slower by adding a warrior in the group.
2. Mages already have a chance to be in the group.
3. PvP is balanced among rogues vs. mages. However, warriors cannot kill either of these classes. Therefore, instead of nerfing two classes..it is more logical to buff one class.

**KnowledgeFTW** · 10-27-2015, 07:10 PM

Buff the new mythic weapons. It's good but lvl 41 bulwarks are so much better...

**Alhuntrazeck** · 10-27-2015, 07:56 PM

I think the largest issue here is the rogue dodge. They actually have MORE survivability than warriors since they can theoretically avoid half the attacks. I'd suggest making some undodgeable mobs.

My second suggestion is to REMOVE OHKOs. Tanks should be able to survive those, the other classes shouldn't.

A large buff in tank armor would help; maybe the new weapon could be reduced by around 100 damage from its current damage and have an added 500+ armor? Swords and shields are meant to be tanky. Warriors who want to deal damage will probably have access to a sword/glaive/hammer mythic weapon sometime in the future.