#savethetank

[Excuses]

Jugg should've been way more tank-like: 90% dmg reduction, immunity to stuns, pushes and pulls, double the taunt AoE bursts, lasts 10s with 25s CD. Applies 15 crit debuff and 10 dmg debuff.

Direct damage buffs would be a wrong move. Longer-lasting feebles, extended taunt effect's potency, more one-hit red zones that can and need to be interrupted; that's more around the lines of what a tank should be providing.

This but scaled by lvl.

I kind of gave up tho. This game is going out of control tbh.

[Froxanthar]

Jugg should've been way more tank-like: 90% dmg reduction, immunity to stuns, pushes and pulls, double the taunt AoE bursts, lasts 10s with 25s CD. Applies 15 crit debuff and 10 dmg debuff.

Direct damage buffs would be a wrong move. Longer-lasting feebles, extended taunt effect's potency, more one-hit red zones that can and need to be interrupted; that's more around the lines of what a tank should be providing.

I like this one.. 0.0

[vawaid]

fix jug, thanks.

"Quote to reply, I use tapasucks."

[vawaid]

Jugg should've been way more tank-like: 90% dmg reduction, immunity to stuns, pushes and pulls, double the taunt AoE bursts, lasts 10s with 25s CD. Applies 15 crit debuff and 10 dmg debuff.

Direct damage buffs would be a wrong move. Longer-lasting feebles, extended taunt effect's potency, more one-hit red zones that can and need to be interrupted; that's more around the lines of what a tank should be providing.

yes, that sounds great. And I think we need a new pet with good str, good hp, good armor, and dodge without +damage and critical. I need that.

"Quote to reply, I use tapasucks."

[Midievalmodel]

Let me throw a completely different angle at the situation...

Warriors generally get tossed to the side when it comes to end game elites. I think we can all agree to that. Now we must ask the question, "Why do tanks get tossed to the side?"

In my experience, talking to people of several guilds, and poking my head around the forums a bit, I believe the general consensus is something to the effect of "They die too fast and their low damage makes the runs slower." There are a lot of people who refer to the warrior class now as a "Paper Tank", which is actually a legitimate assertation in my opinion. I do agree that for the current state of end game, the warriors are just that - paper.

But with that said you have to ask the question of why these warriors are considered weak, easily torn apart, paper. I believe that it is actually not the fault of the class itself causing the opinions of warriors that players have, but the methodology with which SpaceTime develops the "difficulty" of the end game maps. Objectively looking at two end game maxed out players, one being a rogue and one being a warrior, you will find the rogue has somewhere around 5,000 health and 2,000 armor whereas the warrior will have 9,000-10,000 health (can be boosted with skills) and around 3,000 armor. This makes the warrior class the objective more survivable class of the two - it has nearly double the health and 50% more armor than the rogue does... So why do people call them paper? Why are they excluded from parties?

As I mentioned above, I believe the reason for this is the way the game developers are creating the difficulty for us players. Currently, "difficulty" comes from a small number of mobs that can stun you and quickly take your health to 0 (and by quickly, I mean in a single hit). This happens to be true for warriors as well, even with their massive health and armor advantage, you can (or at least have been able to) see warriors going from full 9,500 health to a dead pixelated mess on the ground in a single smack. This takes away any advantage the warrior has with regards to health, as now they are on the same level as everybody else - able to die in 1 hit. So, what's left to look at when considering a warrior for the party? Everybody's favorite thing to ask for - damage.

The warrior class is meant to be a class that can take a beating, a tank. By classic MMO definition, a tank's job isn't to deal damage to mobs, but to keep the rest of your party alive by keeping the mobs attacking you while you keep them alive with your support health spells. As we can see from the skills of a warrior class, this was entirely the intention STS had for the warrior class. This is why I disagree with people asking for more damage on a warrior... It does NOT fix the real issue behind why warriors get shunned from parties.

I believe that in order to bring usefulness back to warriors, the maps need to be designed in such a way that it makes their advantage useful again. How do we do this? We make the maps have a high density of mobs which have less damage than current end game elite maps - something where a warrior could hold the aggro of 20-30 mobs and survive, where someone with half health and 2/3 the armor couldn't. This would bring warriors back into the game, because they would actually be needed. As it stands, there is not much motivation to bring a warrior along with a run, because they don't add the benefit of keeping the party alive... They just fall dead like everybody else.

Now, with all that said, don't get me wrong. I do think that the taunting system and some of the warrior skills do need a fix, because they certainly not acting as they should, but I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that constantly buffing the class and making it stronger is the correct way to solve the issue we currently have with warriors. Just my two cents on the matter, though.

I agree. But unfortunately this cannot be implemented as STG has admitted that high mob maps has crashed and significantly slowed down the game in the past and the servers can't handle it. So STG wont do it.

[Arkiouj]

Let me throw a completely different angle at the situation...

Warriors generally get tossed to the side when it comes to end game elites. I think we can all agree to that. Now we must ask the question, "Why do tanks get tossed to the side?"

In my experience, talking to people of several guilds, and poking my head around the forums a bit, I believe the general consensus is something to the effect of "They die too fast and their low damage makes the runs slower." There are a lot of people who refer to the warrior class now as a "Paper Tank", which is actually a legitimate assertation in my opinion. I do agree that for the current state of end game, the warriors are just that - paper.

But with that said you have to ask the question of why these warriors are considered weak, easily torn apart, paper. I believe that it is actually not the fault of the class itself causing the opinions of warriors that players have, but the methodology with which SpaceTime develops the "difficulty" of the end game maps. Objectively looking at two end game maxed out players, one being a rogue and one being a warrior, you will find the rogue has somewhere around 5,000 health and 2,000 armor whereas the warrior will have 9,000-10,000 health (can be boosted with skills) and around 3,000 armor. This makes the warrior class the objective more survivable class of the two - it has nearly double the health and 50% more armor than the rogue does... So why do people call them paper? Why are they excluded from parties?

As I mentioned above, I believe the reason for this is the way the game developers are creating the difficulty for us players. Currently, "difficulty" comes from a small number of mobs that can stun you and quickly take your health to 0 (and by quickly, I mean in a single hit). This happens to be true for warriors as well, even with their massive health and armor advantage, you can (or at least have been able to) see warriors going from full 9,500 health to a dead pixelated mess on the ground in a single smack. This takes away any advantage the warrior has with regards to health, as now they are on the same level as everybody else - able to die in 1 hit. So, what's left to look at when considering a warrior for the party? Everybody's favorite thing to ask for - damage.

The warrior class is meant to be a class that can take a beating, a tank. By classic MMO definition, a tank's job isn't to deal damage to mobs, but to keep the rest of your party alive by keeping the mobs attacking you while you keep them alive with your support health spells. As we can see from the skills of a warrior class, this was entirely the intention STS had for the warrior class. This is why I disagree with people asking for more damage on a warrior... It does NOT fix the real issue behind why warriors get shunned from parties.

I believe that in order to bring usefulness back to warriors, the maps need to be designed in such a way that it makes their advantage useful again. How do we do this? We make the maps have a high density of mobs which have less damage than current end game elite maps - something where a warrior could hold the aggro of 20-30 mobs and survive, where someone with half health and 2/3 the armor couldn't. This would bring warriors back into the game, because they would actually be needed. As it stands, there is not much motivation to bring a warrior along with a run, because they don't add the benefit of keeping the party alive... They just fall dead like everybody else.

Now, with all that said, don't get me wrong. I do think that the taunting system and some of the warrior skills do need a fix, because they certainly not acting as they should, but I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that constantly buffing the class and making it stronger is the correct way to solve the issue we currently have with warriors. Just my two cents on the matter, though.

This. But as Medievalmodel says, STS won't be making any high mob maps or maps with big pulls as it puts strain on the server. I feel the skills need to be fixed/buffed first, rather than a weapon being buffed. As many have said, and after trying out the new mythic aegis again, warriors are pretty useful again when it comes to packs of mobs, were just useless when it comes to the boss. I'd suggest maybe making Venge buff not only the warrior, but the whole party aswell. This would make atleast 1 warrior in the team a little more useful on the bosses. I think another problem is ankhs, since STS make money from players purchasing these with plat it makes 1 hit kill mobs worthwhile for them, so more are needed and bought.

#savethetankh

[hallowring]

+1 i hope sts does add more new mythic wepons for the endgame warrior class (so much needed in improvements)(^u^)

[xiziviqi]

Need dps weapon like magma

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[epicrrr]

Someone should provide vid of a tank running elite maps with/solo party to see current tank gameplay.

[DarrenPR]

This. But as Medievalmodel says, STS won't be making any high mob maps or maps with big pulls as it puts strain on the server. I feel the skills need to be fixed/buffed first, rather than a weapon being buffed. As many have said, and after trying out the new mythic aegis again, warriors are pretty useful again when it comes to packs of mobs, were just useless when it comes to the boss. I'd suggest maybe making Venge buff not only the warrior, but the whole party aswell. This would make atleast 1 warrior in the team a little more useful on the bosses. I think another problem is ankhs, since STS make money from players purchasing these with plat it makes 1 hit kill mobs worthwhile for them, so more are needed and bought.

#savethetankh

So, rather than optimizing game code, managing memory more properly and upgrading both the hardware and bandwidth of the system to allow for more maps to made with higher mob density, we instead essentially remove the usefulness of one of only three playable characters in the game, leading to some people outright quitting altogether? Seems kind of silly to me. But then again, what do I know, right?

[Arkiouj]

So, rather than optimizing game code, managing memory more properly and upgrading both the hardware and bandwidth of the system to allow for more maps to made with higher mob density, we instead essentially remove the usefulness of one of only three playable characters in the game, leading to some people outright quitting altogether? Seems kind of silly to me. But then again, what do I know, right?

Remove the usefulness of which character? I have no idea where you have got this assumption from? I was agreeing with you're post, I would love to see maps with big pulls and alot of mobs. If you mean by the Venge buffing everyone in the party, ofcourse this wouldn't be able to stack if there was another warrior using it aswell, it would just mean atleast tanks would be more useful on the boss. Obviously upgrading the server would be the best solution but I doubt STS will do that to fix one class.

[DarrenPR]

Remove the usefulness of which character? I have no idea where you have got this assumption from? I was agreeing with you're post, I would love to see maps with big pulls and alot of mobs. If you mean by the Venge buffing everyone in the party, ofcourse this wouldn't be able to stack if there was another warrior using it aswell, it would just mean atleast tanks would be more useful on the boss. Obviously upgrading the server would be the best solution but I doubt STS will do that to fix one class.

No no, I was implying that the code is poorly optimized and because of that, higher mob density causes strain on the server. On top of that, I've noticed the bandwidth server side starts chugging when event time comes around, which means either the server physically can use an upgrade or the internet being provided to STS could be improved. The code would just take some time to make more efficient... But a relatively easy process if you know what you're doing. I was implying it's stupid to say making new maps with high mob density is impossible, because it is entirely possible to do, with some changes to how the game operates. As we have seen though, it can sometimes take YEARS to fix a single bug (rogue noxious bolt, anybody?), so I don't foresee any optimization to game code any time soon.

[Arkiouj]

No no, I was implying that the code is poorly optimized and because of that, higher mob density causes strain on the server. On top of that, I've noticed the bandwidth server side starts chugging when event time comes around, which means either the server physically can use an upgrade or the internet being provided to STS could be improved. The code would just take some time to make more efficient... But a relatively easy process if you know what you're doing. I was implying it's stupid to say making new maps with high mob density is impossible, because it is entirely possible to do, with some changes to how the game operates. As we have seen though, it can sometimes take YEARS to fix a single bug (rogue noxious bolt, anybody?), so I don't foresee any optimization to game code any time soon.

Never said it was impossible to make new maps with high mob density and big pulls, just that it's unlikely if Ren'gol maps are any indication of the future for AL maps. Seems STS don't want to invest in more server space which would not only ofcourse allow for these types of maps, it would also most likely fix all the damn lag and ping problems we keep experiencing.

[boljackz]

Jugg should've been way more tank-like: 90% dmg reduction, immunity to stuns, pushes and pulls, double the taunt AoE bursts, lasts 10s with 25s CD. Applies 15 crit debuff and 10 dmg debuff.

Direct damage buffs would be a wrong move. Longer-lasting feebles, extended taunt effect's potency, more one-hit red zones that can and need to be interrupted; that's more around the lines of what a tank should be providing.

+1 to this one

#savethetank

[Midievalmodel]

Never said it was impossible to make new maps with high mob density and big pulls, just that it's unlikely if Ren'gol maps are any indication of the future for AL maps. Seems STS don't want to invest in more server space which would not only ofcourse allow for these types of maps, it would also most likely fix all the damn lag and ping problems we keep experiencing.

What Kouj is saying is that STG have absolutely no intention to improve their "coding" or to invest any more resources to make their servers lag less. There solution was to reduce the amount of mobs in the new contents so they don't have to deal with all the instability that happened almost a year ago that caused major issues with gameplay. So DarrenPR, though your idea is great and we all agree with it. You are wasting your finger muscles and spit typing out that idea that many many many people in the past have already thought of and discussed about. People stop bringing it up because they know this wont ever happen.

[supersyan]

Rogues dodges auto attacks and pet attacks alot. They crit a alot. The reason mages able to bring down rogue because of elondria gun proc . which is stacking armor. -100% dodge and -25% armor reduction and root. The 100 dodge reduction is crucial.
On the other hand warriors are easy target. They can't run. They can't hide. All their auto attacks and pet attacks get dodged by rogues. They can't take constant crits from rogues. All skill CD are long. More armor is not helping. Most skills needs charge to work properly. Eg. jugg, vb , axe, heal, wm, rally cry. All needs to be charged. So the charging time comes to play. Also there is this global CD on skills and animation delay on skills.

These are the major drawbacks of warrior. But the real reason is warriors can't never ever spam skills like rogues and mages do.

Just my thoughts

[rustygun]

I was previously a proponent of buffing the new weapon. However, after testing it out in PVE, it is extremely OP. I will challenge any Pro and maxed out mage that I can clear a dense, elite mob with my warrior faster than your mage. The proc on this weapon is amazing but everyone is looking at this from a PVP standpoint. With regards to PVP, yes, fix juggernaut

Yes weapon suck in pvp espect death with them... And yes PVP determine if any new item value.....

[rustygun]

Rogues dodges auto attacks and pet attacks alot. They crit a alot. The reason mages able to bring down rogue because of elondria gun proc . which is stacking armor. -100% dodge and -25% armor reduction and root. The 100 dodge reduction is crucial.
On the other hand warriors are easy target. They can't run. They can't hide. All their auto attacks and pet attacks get dodged by rogues. They can't take constant crits from rogues. All skill CD are long. More armor is not helping. Most skills needs charge to work properly. Eg. jugg, vb , axe, heal, wm, rally cry. All needs to be charged. So the charging time comes to play. Also there is this global CD on skills and animation delay on skills.

These are the major drawbacks of warrior. But the real reason is warriors can't never ever spam skills like rogues and mages do.

Just my thoughts

Agree %100 warrior weak defense and weak attack.. I die so fast I'm ashamed to even fight.. I can't even bother logging on at times game suck Pve suck too all those long everlasting run hoping a single item drop especially when you need a lot of it to craft somthing useless then recraft something useless only to do it over and over to recraft it into something good are u kidding me this is crazy I'll end up in the nut house trying to keep up... Yes!!!! Yes!!!! I hate pve so what it just make me bored and sleepy I don't find anything fun about it especially using a tank...

[Zynzyn]

Rogues dodges auto attacks and pet attacks alot. They crit a alot. The reason mages able to bring down rogue because of elondria gun proc . which is stacking armor. -100% dodge and -25% armor reduction and root. The 100 dodge reduction is crucial.
On the other hand warriors are easy target. They can't run. They can't hide. All their auto attacks and pet attacks get dodged by rogues. They can't take constant crits from rogues. All skill CD are long. More armor is not helping. Most skills needs charge to work properly. Eg. jugg, vb , axe, heal, wm, rally cry. All needs to be charged. So the charging time comes to play. Also there is this global CD on skills and animation delay on skills.

These are the major drawbacks of warrior. But the real reason is warriors can't never ever spam skills like rogues and mages do.

Just my thoughts

Talking about pvp (I am not commenting on warrior role in pve) AL PVP is not meant to be class vs class. Why do people judge tank ability to kill rogues or mage ability to kill tanks? CTF and TDM = team vs team. You all are just pestering sts to solve a non-existent problem.

Most "buff tank" posts do not even elaborate on how to and if it will work. The fact that there are so many of buff tank threads is just herd mentality, sheep following sheep who expect that sts will just buff a class because a few and their alts are building pressure with repetitive threads on the same topic.

[Redjellydonut]

Yess!!! Tank are always dependent on mage and rogues can we like roam on out own!?? Please!! love u sts :*