Juggernaut Change Discussion

[Mejarogue]

I agree jugg will make thinks more vulnerable

[Deej]

The jug is really bad.

[procs]

so jugg is being nerfed or buffed? i play at lvl 15

[Oezheasate]

Jugg breaks to easily thats a fact, jugg shoulnt be unbreakable but i do expect that at 9k health and 2.94k armor, still working on those stats dont judge me, i shouldnt be fearing for every second rogue that comes along to be able to break my jugg in less than 5 secs.

[rustygun]

Jug instantly break when you get hit but a high DPS or 2 to say the least.. You jug and one fire..ball from a max mage stun and die before you recover..

[Moxin]

AL gives warriors impossible tasks and obselete/broken tools with which to attempt to do them. Tanks are a paper wall that mobs and rogues crash through with ease when they take a passing interest in them. I don't think any other class needs to use as many pots/ankh as a warrior does when they are actually doing their job. The only class with a defined role is the one tht rules AL and I don't think this is coincidental. When a Mages shield is a more effective tanking tool than juggernaut in endgame elite content it's game over for tanks. STS can nerf jugg (cause this proposed change is a nerf not a buff) all they like I don't think it will solve anything until it is not possible for mages/rogues to solo elite PVe content. In any case jugg is the last skill anyone uses in PVe unless they have pitiful armor and because of its infinite CD. This is more like a twink pvp nerf than a strategy to make tanks a part of elite PVe content. Make running with a tank either mandatory or give the Dps incentive to take a tank with them. This is only possible if running with a tank is faster than running with a full Dps party Or when it is no longer possible to kill mobs/bosses without a tank present. No one is going to take a tank along to momentarily remove armor debuff every 45 secs on a skill most tanks don't even have equipped. It's nice that this thread was created but the lack of moderator interest in it makes me feel like it's more of a pacifier than a real change.

[Carapace]

Hey everyone,

I was busy toiling away on some other things but I'm digging through the input here and have some additional thoughts based on feedback I've read thus far.

The weakness of the skill was not as apparent as it was once the points were being made, as well as shortcomings in some of the upgrades for the skill. So with that in mind here is a new range of implementation changes to the skill for further discussion:

First, a higher scale rate for the armor. 17.5% for uncharged, and 25% for charged. This is for legendary level gear, the final entry at the bottom being Arcane/Mythics. This is again without pets and without gems.


This has a notable improvement compared to the previous iteration, but not too much. The reason why is because of the potential modifications to these upgrades.

Ignore Pain
Currently this provides 20% Damage Reduction as a tap, and 30% as a charged. This would be changed to 40% Damage Reduction on a tap, and 65% Damage Reduction on a charge. This would last the entire duration.

- Combining this with the health boost from scaling armor above results in substantially more effective health for the duration of the effect

Second Wind
Currently this has a 50% chance when below 25% health to heal for an amount based on damage and strength coefficients. The proposed change here is to remove the minimum health requirement so that it has a chance to proc regardless of current health value. The amount healed would also become a fixed percentage. Likely in the 2.5% max health range and at a reduced 33% chance to proc.

- We acknowledge that in its current form 25% minimum health is too low given the power of DPS classes. This upgrade, combined with the revised 'Ignore Pain' and changed scaling for health benefit could prove to make the Warrior a formidable foe during the up time for this ability against skills like Aimed Shot and Lightning, as well as dangerous Elite bosses and content.

Unstoppable
In addition to removing rooting and snaring effects, Unstoppable would also increase your armor by 20% of your STR. This would apply before the Health bonus is calculated to increase your health bonus.

- By utilizing another primary stat of the Warrior, it should provide additional discussions related to things like Jewels and gear combinations to best benefit a warrior utilizing this skill in PvP and PvE circumstances.

Great discussion here, thanks all.

[Oezheasate]

Hey everyone,

I was busy toiling away on some other things but I'm digging through the input here and have some additional thoughts based on feedback I've read thus far.

The weakness of the skill was not as apparent as it was once the points were being made, as well as shortcomings in some of the upgrades for the skill. So with that in mind here is a new range of implementation changes to the skill for further discussion:

First, a higher scale rate for the armor. 17.5% for uncharged, and 25% for charged. This is for legendary level gear, the final entry at the bottom being Arcane/Mythics. This is again without pets and without gems.


This has a notable improvement compared to the previous iteration, but not too much. The reason why is because of the potential modifications to these upgrades.

Ignore Pain
Currently this provides 20% Damage Reduction as a tap, and 30% as a charged. This would be changed to 40% Damage Reduction on a tap, and 65% Damage Reduction on a charge. This would last the entire duration.

- Combining this with the health boost from scaling armor above results in substantially more effective health for the duration of the effect

Second Wind
Currently this has a 50% chance when below 25% health to heal for an amount based on damage and strength coefficients. The proposed change here is to remove the minimum health requirement so that it has a chance to proc regardless of current health value. The amount healed would also become a fixed percentage. Likely in the 2.5% max health range and at a reduced 33% chance to proc.

- We acknowledge that in its current form 25% minimum health is too low given the power of DPS classes. This upgrade, combined with the revised 'Ignore Pain' and changed scaling for health benefit could prove to make the Warrior a formidable foe during the up time for this ability against skills like Aimed Shot and Lightning, as well as dangerous Elite bosses and content.

Unstoppable
In addition to removing rooting and snaring effects, Unstoppable would also increase your armor by 20% of your STR. This would apply before the Health bonus is calculated to increase your health bonus.

- By utilizing another primary stat of the Warrior, it should provide additional discussions related to things like Jewels and gear combinations to best benefit a warrior utilizing this skill in PvP and PvE circumstances.

Great discussion here, thanks all.

Sounds great and will make my rogues vsing bouts less painful and frustratiing. When they break jugg after 4 seconds its scary.

[noisy]

Nice, please implement it as soon as possible.

[Zeus]

Hey everyone,

I was busy toiling away on some other things but I'm digging through the input here and have some additional thoughts based on feedback I've read thus far.

The weakness of the skill was not as apparent as it was once the points were being made, as well as shortcomings in some of the upgrades for the skill. So with that in mind here is a new range of implementation changes to the skill for further discussion:

First, a higher scale rate for the armor. 17.5% for uncharged, and 25% for charged. This is for legendary level gear, the final entry at the bottom being Arcane/Mythics. This is again without pets and without gems.


This has a notable improvement compared to the previous iteration, but not too much. The reason why is because of the potential modifications to these upgrades.

Ignore Pain
Currently this provides 20% Damage Reduction as a tap, and 30% as a charged. This would be changed to 40% Damage Reduction on a tap, and 65% Damage Reduction on a charge. This would last the entire duration.

- Combining this with the health boost from scaling armor above results in substantially more effective health for the duration of the effect

Second Wind
Currently this has a 50% chance when below 25% health to heal for an amount based on damage and strength coefficients. The proposed change here is to remove the minimum health requirement so that it has a chance to proc regardless of current health value. The amount healed would also become a fixed percentage. Likely in the 2.5% max health range and at a reduced 33% chance to proc.

- We acknowledge that in its current form 25% minimum health is too low given the power of DPS classes. This upgrade, combined with the revised 'Ignore Pain' and changed scaling for health benefit could prove to make the Warrior a formidable foe during the up time for this ability against skills like Aimed Shot and Lightning, as well as dangerous Elite bosses and content.

Unstoppable
In addition to removing rooting and snaring effects, Unstoppable would also increase your armor by 20% of your STR. This would apply before the Health bonus is calculated to increase your health bonus.

- By utilizing another primary stat of the Warrior, it should provide additional discussions related to things like Jewels and gear combinations to best benefit a warrior utilizing this skill in PvP and PvE circumstances.

Great discussion here, thanks all.

This is exactly what is needed. Please make this happen!

[Midievalmodel]

Hey everyone,

I was busy toiling away on some other things but I'm digging through the input here and have some additional thoughts based on feedback I've read thus far.

The weakness of the skill was not as apparent as it was once the points were being made, as well as shortcomings in some of the upgrades for the skill. So with that in mind here is a new range of implementation changes to the skill for further discussion:

First, a higher scale rate for the armor. 17.5% for uncharged, and 25% for charged. This is for legendary level gear, the final entry at the bottom being Arcane/Mythics. This is again without pets and without gems.


This has a notable improvement compared to the previous iteration, but not too much. The reason why is because of the potential modifications to these upgrades.

Ignore Pain
Currently this provides 20% Damage Reduction as a tap, and 30% as a charged. This would be changed to 40% Damage Reduction on a tap, and 65% Damage Reduction on a charge. This would last the entire duration.

- Combining this with the health boost from scaling armor above results in substantially more effective health for the duration of the effect

Second Wind
Currently this has a 50% chance when below 25% health to heal for an amount based on damage and strength coefficients. The proposed change here is to remove the minimum health requirement so that it has a chance to proc regardless of current health value. The amount healed would also become a fixed percentage. Likely in the 2.5% max health range and at a reduced 33% chance to proc.

- We acknowledge that in its current form 25% minimum health is too low given the power of DPS classes. This upgrade, combined with the revised 'Ignore Pain' and changed scaling for health benefit could prove to make the Warrior a formidable foe during the up time for this ability against skills like Aimed Shot and Lightning, as well as dangerous Elite bosses and content.

Unstoppable
In addition to removing rooting and snaring effects, Unstoppable would also increase your armor by 20% of your STR. This would apply before the Health bonus is calculated to increase your health bonus.

- By utilizing another primary stat of the Warrior, it should provide additional discussions related to things like Jewels and gear combinations to best benefit a warrior utilizing this skill in PvP and PvE circumstances.

Great discussion here, thanks all.

Wow this is a very well thought out jugg fix. I am thoroughly impressed by you Carapace. Thank you for your hard work on trying to balance things.

[Shobhit Chaturvedi]

This is awesome! Thank you. What about skill duration and its cooldown??

[Skvll]

Great idea! Please do something about rallying cry in the process.

[Luciano Lobo]

What about the cooldown? make it shorter please. This the main reason I don't use it in PvE. In PvP the improvements suggested lately are great, specially the armor increase bonus wich is wonderful. Are we gonna still have the ARMOR REDUCTION INVULNERABILITY during the skill or just because we have 20% armor bonus armor debuffs won't work. I remind that warrior itself has a armor debuff ability of 25% with AXE, so...? How this issues are gonna be solve?

[Gibson Lee]

more nerf on warrior!!! 3k armor useless with rogues ty so much sts good job!!! use your brains not pockets!

[Ravager]

2.5% hp regain seems quite low. For a warrior with 9500hp for example, that would only be 237hp. But with the other extras it may be decent. Rotating Nekro with juggernaut seems more logical now. Everyone is probably going to spec DOT off once again.

In pvp when I tested long ago, I think charged jugg only granted 450 hp due to the global pvp nerf rather than the 500 hp. Would the nerf be applied to this as well?

[rustygun]

This is awesome! Thank you. What about skill duration and its cooldown??

Yes what about the Cool down time?

[mesalin]

Hey everyone,

I was busy toiling away on some other things but I'm digging through the input here and have some additional thoughts based on feedback I've read thus far.

The weakness of the skill was not as apparent as it was once the points were being made, as well as shortcomings in some of the upgrades for the skill. So with that in mind here is a new range of implementation changes to the skill for further discussion:

First, a higher scale rate for the armor. 17.5% for uncharged, and 25% for charged. This is for legendary level gear, the final entry at the bottom being Arcane/Mythics. This is again without pets and without gems.


This has a notable improvement compared to the previous iteration, but not too much. The reason why is because of the potential modifications to these upgrades.

Ignore Pain
Currently this provides 20% Damage Reduction as a tap, and 30% as a charged. This would be changed to 40% Damage Reduction on a tap, and 65% Damage Reduction on a charge. This would last the entire duration.

- Combining this with the health boost from scaling armor above results in substantially more effective health for the duration of the effect

Second Wind
Currently this has a 50% chance when below 25% health to heal for an amount based on damage and strength coefficients. The proposed change here is to remove the minimum health requirement so that it has a chance to proc regardless of current health value. The amount healed would also become a fixed percentage. Likely in the 2.5% max health range and at a reduced 33% chance to proc.

- We acknowledge that in its current form 25% minimum health is too low given the power of DPS classes. This upgrade, combined with the revised 'Ignore Pain' and changed scaling for health benefit could prove to make the Warrior a formidable foe during the up time for this ability against skills like Aimed Shot and Lightning, as well as dangerous Elite bosses and content.

Unstoppable
In addition to removing rooting and snaring effects, Unstoppable would also increase your armor by 20% of your STR. This would apply before the Health bonus is calculated to increase your health bonus.

- By utilizing another primary stat of the Warrior, it should provide additional discussions related to things like Jewels and gear combinations to best benefit a warrior utilizing this skill in PvP and PvE circumstances.

Great discussion here, thanks all.

Finally something nice here!
Cara what about Duration and CD?

<Forgiveness>

[ueveotadeo]

So, after all this is all about pvp....

[Skvll]

Make jugg taunt ability regain mana every time we are hit by a monster or player. So we can at least choose between tanking with jugg or dealing dmg with veng....tired of relying on pots.