Thread: Venom Guild Post (LONG POST)
umm xianthia 5 mil what is wrong with you unless you got more then this dont talk with your usless guild price ideasWell, I disagree 5 million is really not that much, also think about what would happen if making a guild was easy, players would make them just to make them, and there would be no prestige of making a guild or no work to get one going and keep it going. IT IS A LOT OF WORK!!!!!!
That's awesome lone, but sorry, you can't afford a guild hall.
@crookedjay
Thank you for your 2p gov'nah. I believe you summed up a casual players outlook very well. I too wish that close melee classes were useful in swamps.I do believe crafting can be made to appeal to casual players though, especially if it is level based like EQ2 like xanthia suggested, but possibly having most materials purchased from vendors and only special crafted items requiring mob drops. Although, in all games, not everyone chooses to craft, but it will make other options available for those who choose to craft. (i heart crafting though so I might be biased, 2nd lv50 sage over all EQ2 severs!)
@furrawn
Very good post, and I'm glad you enjoyed my comment.
Proud Forum Guild member.
Mobdropper - 35 Mage
Berigut - 35 Dex Bear
Archang - 35 Dex Mage
Sorry that people can make money in game without shelling out a grand for it.Originally Posted by Thelonearcher
umm xianthia 5 mil what is wrong with you unless you got more then this dont talk with your usless guild price ideas
Seems to me that your butt hurt becuase 3m doesn't seem like so much when you've spent a grand, and guild halls cost 5m.
Advance, can we please get back to discussing/sharing/debating ideas of the OP before this turns into a flame war and the thread gets locked?
Proud Forum Guild member.
Mobdropper - 35 Mage
Berigut - 35 Dex Bear
Archang - 35 Dex Mage
Correction
Hopefully, there will be more discussion to come up with a fair and reasonable plan for how to get a guild charter...
Xanthia-
Do you have any suggestions for earning a guild charter besides the five million?
What did you think about Mob's campaign idea?
Lone, i think your 3 million looks good on you
Last edited by Furrawn; 06-04-2010 at 03:32 AM.
Generally speaking, a howling wilderness does not howl: it is the imagination of the traveler that does the howling. ~ Thoreau
FURRAWN 45 Paladin ButterflyPoet 45 pure dex ScarlettOHara 45 Intbear Jeannedarc 22 Mage Trickortreat lvl 22 100% pure organic chicken Christmastree 13 Mage
Your actually such a looser .. the legends guild has around 10mil but Venom has more gold than you could ever wish for so quiet little looser !umm xianthia 5 mil what is wrong with you unless you got more then this dont talk with your usless guild price ideas
Sorry to ask but what's a looser?
Generally speaking, a howling wilderness does not howl: it is the imagination of the traveler that does the howling. ~ Thoreau
FURRAWN 45 Paladin ButterflyPoet 45 pure dex ScarlettOHara 45 Intbear Jeannedarc 22 Mage Trickortreat lvl 22 100% pure organic chicken Christmastree 13 Mage
Wow, I left this thread for a day, and it turned into a serious flamewar. Also, Venom apparently has no respect for casual gamers, and they think that the rest of us (casual gamers) should be inferior to them. I have to say, such attitude might not be an effective recruiting tool for your guild....
As a casual gamer, I greatly appreciate the fact that I can have three endgame characters with a fair amount of pink equipment, and I didn't have to make PL into a second job in order to do it. I play about ninety minutes per day, and my characters are as strong as anyone else's. That's a GOOD thing to me, and it highlights the point that I was trying to make in my posts.
I don't want a game that requires a huge commitment in order to stay competitive. Such commitment is why I don't play other MMOs. PL appealed to me because it doesn't require that commitment.
I used to play a MUD, back about eight years ago. I gave up playing because I realized that I couldn't keep up with the other players. I had a full-time job and a new child. I was already playing the MUD as much as I could (and more than I should), and I was falling further and further behind the other players with whom I had been playing. I couldn't keep up, so I gave up the MUD.
I play PL about ninety minutes per day on average. That level of gameplay has given me three lvl 35 characters with all of the pink equipment that I really want. (Being a runner-up in the Review Writing contest helped, too!) That's good for me. I'm happy with that level of commitment. If PL required four hours of gameplay every day, I would like it less. I'm not threatening to leave (so dramatic!), but just saying that I would like the game less if it were less casual.
Does expressing my opinion make me selfish? Perhaps ... but if so, then many other people on this thread are also selfish, including many of the people who disagree with me. Maybe "selfish" isn't a useful argument, and we should concentrate on refuting other players' arguments instead of impugning their motives.
Last edited by SlipperyJim; 06-04-2010 at 04:10 AM. Reason: clarification
Characters: Epimetheus - Lvl 56 Warrior (main character), Atropos - Lvl 50 Enchantress, Aereus - Lvl 50 Archer
I was a warrior before warriors became cool....
Yeah, looks like your all getting a 'nice' reputation for your guild. I will sit back, relax and wait for my opportunity.
Rofl, we are the only guild who have not started an argument yet, although Richie was close to starting one xD
NO MATTER WHAT, I AM PROUD TO HAVE OWNED THE FIRST EVER GUILD
Ummm. . .actually u guys might wanna rethink your guild logo. . creative as it is. . . I mean I like it and such. . .wish I had thought of it and what not . . . but. .. it is culturally insensitive. . . to say the least.
Nothing to do with anything here. . .just browsing. . and since you mentioned it . . .thought I may as well point it out.
Ok, Venom definitely has respect for casual players! I honestly don't care what any of you say about the game being catered not to casual players, but when you can play 90 minutes a day and in a couple weeks have full pink, that is a casual game. Right now there is absolutely no hardcore content at all what so ever. I know that it is beta, however all of my suggestions have been called "Demanding" , "Bossing", no respect, and other things. However, since this is a suggestion forum I don't think that we are over stepping our boundaries.
Casual players should never have as much as the hardcore players, if you all understood my post, I am not trying to remove the casual content, not one thing I said was to make the game remove or delete casual players, I just would like something to do that requires me to play a lot. That is what I have been saying all along and every one has been trying to fight me and azrael about it. Furrawn you said that you are a casual player and yet you were 35 in a week and were geared, that is exactly my point, even casual players are making this game look easy. So what do you think it feels like to the hard core players.
@Thelonearcher - dude just no, you bought your money, we have 30x the amount you have in Venom. --Conversation Over--
Ok, why guild halls should cost 5 million is because they are supposted to be luxury, since you all are absolutely SET on saying that guilds should not cost that much, I am not going to argue anymore, I am just going to make a post whenever the game has more guilds in the game then average players online everyday. Back to guild halls, if the glass ceiling is not set very high there is nothing to achieve, and why should every guild have everything. It seems so much like everyone here is so liberal when it comes to content and getting things for free or not having to earn them in the game. I have no problem keeping a casual side to the game, however you casual players need to release the grip on letting the DEV's make a hard core side.
Again, I do not care what any of you say about this game not being catered to casual gamers. This game is exclusively to casual gamers. If it is possible to get a character to the max level in 1 day then it is definitely a casual game.
I am getting disgusted that many players are saying that Venom has no respect for casual gamers, and please leave the recruiting up to us, we are doing a fine job at that so far. Again, I want to clarify we do not have anything against casual players, we just would like something to do.
Wow, I actually read through the 9 pages in this thread. I'd reply according to Xanthia's paragraph headings, but my thoughts are too spread across the OP so I'll just list them down.
1. I understand where everyone else is coming from when commenters felt a "dictatorial" tone from the OP. It would have helped if you chose words besides "should", "must". When you got to "PVE AND PVP MUST HAVE THE SAME COMBAT SYSTEM" (all caps nonetheless), you started raising my red flags (and because I don't agree that PVE and PVP should be the same). We are in no position to tell the game designers what "must" and "should" be done. As you have said, this is a "Suggestions and Feedback forum," let's not turn it into a "Request and Demand forum."
2. I agree with your idea to improve STR benefits, though not to that extent. Tougher tanks would be great, but very high max HP is not necessary, especially now that PvP was tweaked to lower max damages (note that I disagree with PvP and PvE having same damage formulas.) I also think it's fine the way it is where bears benefit more from STR, avians from DEX, and elves from INT. This way, pure builds get some sort of bonus. If you level stat boosts among classes, then you just gave players less reason to lean towards pure builds.
3. Hybrid Builds:
I don't really see a problem with them right now. Let's take your example, the STR Avian. They do make huge damage, but you also said yourself that PvP is a "cooldown" wars. After the bird's big Blast Shot, he's basically just a tank waiting for his cooldown. He can't do this forever (low mana, no m/s, meditate cooldown too long.) I can also imagine him having a hard time in PvE.
These hybrids are powerful, yes, but there are drawbacks. And the fact that each class has their own "powerful hybrid" version and the fact that there is nobody stopping anyone from making their own, makes me wonder why people should be complaining about them in the first place.
Class specific gear? No, please, no. The best I can counter-suggest is to give additional bonuses to gear when they are wielded by it's target class.
4. Allowing friends to join passworded games without a password:
I agree this is not a desirable behavior. We have "friends" we do PvE with, those that we trade with, and those that we PvP with. But they're not necessarily the same people.
5. Currency, Trading:
Yes, this can certainly improve.
6. Crafting, Achievement Points, Skill Trees, Hero Classes:
Woah, woah, woah! As much as I enjoy new content as everyone else, there is no rushing needed. If anything, the current pace of patches and updates are pretty good, IMO. Let's not shove radical changes into our heads too much. We loved Pocket Legends from the start, even without these complicated content. If you liked crafting from Everquest 2, then that's that, let Everquest 2 keep it's pride. It's a different game, different target audience, different platform, different target device. I don't want PL to be "like that other game, with a bit of that other game." Yes, PL will grow, but there is no need for the devs to rush new content, much less for players to worry about them. Besides, these just add complexities to the game, as many others have already pointed out.
7. Hardcore vs. Casual players:
"Casual gamer" is pretty easy to define, so what's a "Hardcore gamer"? I don't know why we have to be divided into these two, I mean, I can easily be classified into either. To newbies, I can be considered "hardcore" because well, I have 3 max-leveled characters, each with their own best pink gear. And yet I'm also "casual" because I only play 1-3 hours a day and I'm against a game I have to be committed to. I might quit if I find myself rushing home from work just to participate a 10-Man Raid, or if I lose sleep from running crafting chores. I already left a few other MMO's from the burden of game responsibilities.
That said, the game needs to keep both the "hardcore" and "casual" player base if it's going to be more successful. The fact that casual players voiced that heavy commitment will hurt them is already something to take note of. Hardcore players do deserve to get something better than casual gamers, but not at the cost of casual gamers feeling left out/feeling inferiorities.
8. Guilds:
Speaking of inferiorities, is that what Venom wants us, who haven't held 6 digits of gold, to feel? "I think that guilds should be an intrical part of the pocket legends community" I second that. From there I find most that was said as elitist and defeats the purpose of a "community." 5 million? I'm a regular player and the most gold I've held is 40~50k. You want 100 of the same player type as I am to hand out all our gold, just to start a guild? Lower your head from the clouds a little. I agree guilds should not be readily accessible by anyone, but what's so bad with say, a minimum level of 30 and 10k gold to create your own guild? If you don't like the idea of a lot of guilds running around town, then you're not promoting guilds, you're promoting just your guild. I'd rather have my guild be known among many others, than be better than just 4. Besides, a lot of people would be joining guilds just for the heck of it (e.g. real-life friends, farming buddies, merchant guilds.) Why not let them?
9. Farming, boredom
"As it is now, honestly, I get so bored running behind 4 of my guild members and just throwing down some heals and occasionally using Lightning storm. It bores me to death that I can watch tv, carry on a conversation with someone on the phone and farm bosses like this" I'm sorry to be rude, but man I hope you're exaggerating. I would want a more active mage in my party. If you can watch TV and talk to the phone while farming in-game, then you might as well be complaining that the TV show's too boring that you can play a game while watching. The bosses are not easy. I can solo them, but at best I will probably die every 2 attempts. I can be in a team but I may still die. Please don't forget, lvl 35 is not our last level. Swamps won't be our hardest map. We'll be moving soon to a new map, why bother fixing what's not broken?
If you guys are really bored, might I suggest some spading?
--------------- Alterra --------------------
Neurion (archer)
Erurainon (warrior)
Neuraina (enchantress)
Xanthia or i never stated we have no respect for casual players. And not for nothing, it was your posts by you (Slipperjim), mobdropper that turned this post into a flame war, and its posts like the one you just made that attempt to keep it a flamewar. 2-3 of the changes we thought of, out of a huge OP i might add, some people don't agree with. Neither I nor Xanthia have any issues with that fact that you don't agree with with us, nor do we think that our suggestion post should be written in stone. Why some members of the community are so threatened by a suggestion post is beyond me. Most of what was written in the OP doesn't change the fact that the game is a completely casual game right now, and it seems like the only change that we suggested can be singled out catalyst for the majority of the flaming that has ensued was the price tag on guild features.
The reality is that this debate isn't about the OP anymore at all. Its about several players lashing out because they feel threatened by a concept, and to make it easier they have decided that "Venom" should represent that concept. This isn't the first post to present end game ideas, its just the longest. Ces't la vie.
If anything, its the "casual" players posting on this thread that have shown no respect for players they consider to be "hardcore". Wanting to have content that takes longer to unlock and complete has nothing to do with making any other player feel inferior; those are your words. You want the game to work for you Slippery, and it already does work for you. Quite frankly though for a guy with 250 posts, participated in the contest, and has 3 35s that are fully pinked, you sound look like a hardcore player to me. Many players are completely finished with the content including you slippery. How can you consider this a positive aspect of the game, or a positive thing for STS's business model? We want to have enough content to last from patch to patch or even longer.
The devs thankfully responded though we knew that they would read it because STS has been great on these forums and read pretty much everything.
@Neuron: The caps in the pve and pvp having the same system were simply because i didn't get around to writing the section. Its there because it wasn't edited when we wrote it. Your post is generally constructive and i enjoyed reading your input. As for the bit in your #9 point, xanthia is the dedicated healer and yes when we are farming we don't need heals. Many players agree that the bosses are too easy. While an Enchantress can't solo them without ever dying, warriors certainly can. Its generally understood that boss farming is way too easy in the ancient swamps. If it wasn't STS wouldn't have tried to fix the issue three times, and unfortunately without much success.
Last edited by Azrael; 06-04-2010 at 12:13 PM.
Ogrim-lvl 50-Ursan Alta-lvl 45-Enchantress Broke-lvl 45-Avian
Venom Website: http://venom.forumn.net
Just because I disagree with one or two points, and ask reasonable questions to statements you two have made, does not make my post's flames.
Proud Forum Guild member.
Mobdropper - 35 Mage
Berigut - 35 Dex Bear
Archang - 35 Dex Mage
So, Azrael, a Venom member (Advance is one of yours, is he not?) calling casual gamers "non-factors" isn't being disrespectful?
Beyond that, I think many posters are responding to Venom's idea that "the guilds should run the game" and that being in a successful guild should lend the player a "huge advantage." Personally, I want the devs to run the game. And I don't want anything other than player skill to lend the hardcore players "a huge advantage" over casual players.
Perhaps if you explained more fully how the guilds would run the game or what this advantage would consist of, other players might not be so resistant to your ideas.
Atleast their name and high requirements are known. To me that says something.
RosieODonell, Lvl 50 WarMage / Ogediah, Lvl 35 Warrior / DrPhill, Lvl 45 Archer
(+ three others I play around with when bored)
Xanthia-
I did NOT call myself a casual gamer. I said YOU would call me a casual gamer. The assumptions you are making about anyone not of your ilk are just downright erroneous.
When the swamp campaign came out, I was on ALL the time. I ate lunch in front of my iPad
I think that Venom Guild maybe has invented this sweeping generalization category and called it "casual players." I can promise you that the friends I've made in the game trust me. Count on me. I will play through campaigns to help friends level up. I share.
I resent the assumption that I don't want long quests or difficult exhaustive tasks. I would LOVE that. Why would you ever assume I wouldn't? My brain works just fine. I average a book a day (yes intelligent books- I just finished a book on Louis Leakey and Lucy). I'd adore more complexity in the game. As I said before, the game is in the process of being created. I don't think it's geared toward any group right now. I think the devs are building and complexity will come brick by brick.
I think it's an outrageous oversimplification to say there is Venom Guild and then everybody else is basically a casual player. Maybe. But there's a myriad of varying degrees. Perhaps you aren't taking that into account?
As for guilds, you said Venom has 30x lone's 3 million. That's 90 million. How many members do you have? You judge other players as not caring about content, but it seems to me like Venom just plays for gold.
See. It doesn't feel good when someone unfairly assumes the worst.
We need to be a community that values and respects ALL players. Yes, I agree that you respect the group you call casual gamers, but your posts reflect that you do not VALUE them.
I do value you. I admire the commitment and effort you put forth in pursuit of your goals. I think you have a lot to offer.
But so do I.
So do a lot of folks.
The game would benefit from us all working together, in my opinion
Generally speaking, a howling wilderness does not howl: it is the imagination of the traveler that does the howling. ~ Thoreau
FURRAWN 45 Paladin ButterflyPoet 45 pure dex ScarlettOHara 45 Intbear Jeannedarc 22 Mage Trickortreat lvl 22 100% pure organic chicken Christmastree 13 Mage
I owe Venom an apology. I saw Advance's post:
This post shows disrespect toward casual gamers. However, Advance may or may not be part of Venom (I suspect that he is not), so I was wrong to connect his statement with you. That's probably why I should not post at 5am.... So I'm sorry for that.
However, I believe you called me selfish:
... which takes me back to the point that we're all expressing our opinions here. If expressing my opinion makes me selfish, then these forums have a lot of selfish people. Personally, I'd rather focus on the arguments that people have made ... and not on the supposed motivations of those people.
(And I should have taken my own advice before accusing you of disrespect. Again, I apologize.)
I disagree with you. As I tried to write in my early-morning post, one of the most-attractive qualities of PL for me is that I can be a casual player and still compete in the Big Leagues. I don't want anything that requires me to play a lot. And I don't want to be in a different league from you simply because you play a lot and I don't.
That's our fundamental disagreement. And I agree with you that PL caters to the casual gamers right now. That's why I like it! That's why I'm arguing in favor of the status quo. I don't think I'll persuade you, and I doubt that you'll persuade me. But at least we understand each other!
I know I'm not Furrawn, but I'm going to respond anyway. I was able to level up each of my characters from 30 to 35 in about a week. Getting all three to lvl 35 took (therefore) about three weeks. Getting my gear took longer. I don't have full pinks yet -- probably won't ever get there -- but I have all of the pinks that I really need.
(PS: Sniper's Bayou Bows are so not worth it. My Bayou Bow of the Eagle has almost the same stats, only 2 Dex less, and it was easy to get. Why are people willing to pay so much for a pink bow?)
Again, I agree that PL caters to the casual gamers. I like it that way. However, I feel some skepticism at the notion that someone could reach lvl 35 in one day. Are you talking about going from lvl 30 to lvl 35 in one day, or all the way up from lvl 1? If they started at lvl 30, it could be possible....
Again, I apologize for the false accusation. However, I wonder that you have nothing to do. Isn't the base game still fun? I still enjoy killing crocs, even though I don't get any more XP for it, and I don't really need much more gear. Kill crocs. Help newbies. Enjoy the game!
Does a game have to offer a reward in order to be worth playing? Isn't it just fun to play for its own sake?
Characters: Epimetheus - Lvl 56 Warrior (main character), Atropos - Lvl 50 Enchantress, Aereus - Lvl 50 Archer
I was a warrior before warriors became cool....
Slipperyjim - thank you for finally understanding what I am trying to say instead of being contradicting just to do it.
You're right we will never agree on the making the game good for both hardcore and casual. But, thats ok
Furrawn - again saying things that you have no idea about, trying to say that Venom is only about gold, that is actually one of the last things we worry about, all we care about is beating the game as fast as possible and being the best guild in PvP and once raiding comes out, beating the content before everyone else and having more things than any other guild. Yep I said it, we want the best stuff before everyone else and faster and better then everyone else does it. That's what we do. We now have 9 members.
Probably gonna not get too much more members if you keep this attitude up... too selfish of a guild for me... mob u and me start one lol... u down?
Smokestar - Lvl 77 Pure Dex Bird
FAMILY NOOBSFORLIFE
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