Fury (warrior) tank = overrated?

[Moogerfooger]

Hey all, just popping on, still in midst of moving/setting up after a cross-nation move

Question just popped into my mind indirectly from another post, about Fury tanks. Assuming that one is a warrior, what are some reasons you guys who are Fury warrior tanks chose it?

Fury has atrocious hit percentage rendering your Beckon (and Taunt to some extent) inferior to other gear combinations more cheaply available, has lousy base damage, and the 30+ m/s is totally useless on a bear, as you only need somewhere about 8-12 m/s GCD-spamming skills with a strong tailwind. Yes, the skill damage is best, but warrior tanks are not too concerned with damage-dealing via skill damage theoretically much anyway, and no one will confuse even a damage dealing bear with a nuke mage or dex archer to begin with, much less a tank.

Just curious to see if I am missing something here, or some good reasons I overlooked. I ran a Sewer/Rooters/Bodyguard (or Cleaner's) shield combo with decent success all the way to 56, as did some other (and better) bears.

[Arterra]

guess why we have so many dexbears, or at the very least dual.

[Otukura]

Everyone wants kills now.. I love playing my bear but getting kills in sewers is a pain. I'll get 2-4 with a great group, and 14-16 with a random PUG.

Using plung/root/plung/body setup at level 53.

[Silentarrow]

Yes it has a terrible hit % but the damage to most is worth it. In my opinion thats why bears should always duel spec for it adds so much hit %.

[CrimsonTider]

It is very frustrating, Moog. I was much better at tanking with full hate than with fury. Fortified is a little better. Since I have switched to dex, it will take a special new set in level cap raise to get me out of my customized set. This is my opinion though.

People tend to forget how much hit% and critical play into the ability to land skills consistently.

[Xymorg]

I fully agree Moog, the fact the dex based hit % affects str skill success breaks pure str bears end game play in curruent end game gear sets. When crowd control is only 80% effective with maxed beckon and you're leaving a straggler or three out of every group it essentially becomes pointless.

Str skill success should be based on str stat & skill lvl, at least the ones that aren't "hits" like taunt or beckon.

Actually, I just realized I have no idea how actually works and I'm just assuming the reason crowd control is ineffective with pure(ish) fury/fort str bear is because my hit % is low. It could be something else I guess, but it's gotten pretty near unplayable if you can remember how fun it used to be.

[Moogerfooger]

Yes it has a terrible hit % but the damage to most is worth it. In my opinion thats why bears should always duel spec for it adds so much hit %.

What damage are you talking about? The base damage sucks. The skill damage is the best, but it is not that much better than the rig I ran, or some others people are mentioning here. TOTALLY not worth the cost. Not to mention, since the hit of pure Fury sucks so bad, your increased (slightly) skill damage misses more often anyway, rendering it a tie or worse than higher hit gear.

The dodge is nice for tanking, but everything else about it (for tanking) blows. And there are other good dodge/high armor/better base damage combos out there. Minor increase in skill damage is not worth the cost.

p.s. totally agreed on the dual spec, I am dual spec str/dex myself for that reason you mentioned and I think most others are too

@Crimson, yes exactly, re: hit. Elly and I ran a lot of runs watching how hit affected how often skills landed...it seemed to noticeably (taunt and beckon) start missing more at about 88% and under. Fury was crummy, in comparison (mid 70s hit, if I recall). I'm talking about max tanking here, not Bowbears (which are fun too and a whole 'nother story)

[Moogerfooger]

I fully agree Moog, the fact the dex based hit % affects str skill success breaks pure str bears end game play in curruent end game gear sets. When crowd control is only 80% effective with maxed beckon and you're leaving a straggler or three out of every group it essentially becomes pointless.

Str skill success should be based on str stat & skill lvl, at least the ones that aren't "hits" like taunt or beckon.

Actually, I just realized I have no idea how actually works and I'm just assuming the reason crowd control is ineffective with pure(ish) fury/fort str bear is because my hit % is low. It could be something else I guess, but it's gotten pretty near unplayable if you can remember how fun it used to be.

Yep, hit below about 88-90 will start affecting taunt and beckon, a tank's main crowd control tools

[CrimsonTider]

Sadly, a growing number of bears have no clue how to use beckon effectively and put little, if any, points into taunt. This would explain why fury sets are so sought after. Tanks like the dodge, health regeneration, and armor, but do not realize what they are missing out on because of lack of skill mastery.

Very good topic, btw.

[Moogerfooger]

Sadly, a growing number of bears have no clue how to use beckon effectively and put little, if any, points into taunt. This would explain why fury sets are so sought after. Tanks like the dodge, health regeneration, and armor, but do not realize what they are missing out on because of lack of skill mastery.

Very good topic, btw.

Thx, was just idly/randomly wondering why someone who was wanting to warrior tank would choose Fury and thought I might be missing something important. In PvP I could see the dodge being maybe even more impt than in PvE tanking, but still your damage and hit is low which kind of defeats PvP purposes in other ways. A skilled bear (bow or str weap, no matter) who can effectively land taunt and beckon makes things easier for the rest of the party if done right

[CrimsonTider]

Precisely!! You would be surprised (then again, maybe not) how many people get mad when I try to explain certain mechanics used in tanking. At least I try!!

[WhoIsThis]

Sadly, a growing number of bears have no clue how to use beckon effectively and put little, if any, points into taunt. This would explain why fury sets are so sought after. Tanks like the dodge, health regeneration, and armor, but do not realize what they are missing out on because of lack of skill mastery.

Very good topic, btw.

+1

There have been rather extreme cases that I have seen. In one case, there was a level 51 bear I met while in the Stronghold who told me that he did not have any points invested in beckon at all. This player argued with me that he didn't need to beckon because he was dex and that he used a bow, which had range. I pointed out that his slashes still required close range among other things. Anyways, the point is he wouldn't listen and he threw a tantrum.

A friend on my says he saw a bear who once had no points in evade, despite being level 52. I suspect that these are not isolated cases.

The rise of dex bears seems to have come at the expense of "tanking". Basically, what you now have are bears which have maxed out their slashes, rage, and the rest of the skills appear to have been put into skills that sound "cool" to the player. For such players, I suppose fury appears to be a reasonable choice.

In practice, dex bears are basically warbirds with bear abilities. Even factoring in rage maxed out and the slashes, net damage is still less than warbirds with the same weaponry in a given run. (Remember a bird will have focus and their abilities maxed as well.) There are some bears who refuse to taunt for fear of gaining aggro. Plus, with so many dex bears aren't eager to hold aggro, their value against mobs and bosses is limited. Warbirds at least have break armor.

Actually, I suspect that the decline in the proportion of players that are effective tanks may be why bears have gotten some of their negative image. They don't do nearly as much damage as dex birds or int mages and since many seem unwilling (or unable in some cases) to tank ...

[Ellyidol]

I'm not sure either what full Fury does for a bear that a cheaper alternative can't.. Maybe flexibility with another warbird/pally?

I still find it funny, how a STR set best meant for bears suits the other classes better.

Personally, I've switched to a Fort Set to try and become a more traditional bear.

I also still find it funny how str bears (dex bears at times too) are a one-trick pony in PvP.

Beckon misses, pretty much done. And we know how much a problem our Hit % are. Take a bird/mage into consideration, no problem on Hit %, and if one skill misses against a str bear, so what? Kite.

Not saying bears completely suck, just goes to show that the PvP system is very flawed.

[WhoIsThis]

The problem though with having strength affect hit % is that it would make pallies and warbirds OP. I think that if strength is to increase hit%, it must only be for bears wearing melee weaponry. (Allowing melee weaponry to increase hit% would again make pallies OP unless some other attribute was sacrificed).

But that said, there's no true tanking end-game tanking set. For PvE, the enchanted gemstone staff set can be considered endgame for int mages (although not a very good set to use vs other mages in PvP) and the custom recurve can be considered an endgame set for birds.

[Ellyidol]

The problem though with having strength affect hit % is that it would make pallies and warbirds OP. I think that if strength is to increase hit%, it must only be for bears wearing melee weaponry. (Allowing melee weaponry to increase hit% would again make pallies OP unless some other attribute was sacrificed).

But that said, there's no true tanking end-game tanking set. For PvE, the enchanted gemstone staff set can be considered endgame for int mages (although not a very good set to use vs other mages in PvP) and the custom recurve can be considered an endgame set for birds.

Agreed, could imagine how OP pallies would be if a dual spec would have very good hit yet the fury set.

There's not just no tanking set end-game, but there's no actual end-game tanking. Lol.

[Otukura]

Agreed, could imagine how OP pallies would be if a dual spec would have very good hit yet the fury set.

There's not just no tanking set end-game, but there's no actual end-game tanking. Lol.

Pallies do become OP in PvE when they get the dex crown. They seem to never die except when people like parth are in your group, and you have 92 hit, 20 crit unbuffed. The damage is the same as a dual dex/int wand mage, and 15 less than a pure wand mage.

In PvP they do fine in one v ones and small team fights, but in bigger ones they get KS'd non-stop. It's pretty hard to get a kill when competing with cust. birds and staff mages.

[Ellyidol]

Pallies do become OP in PvE when they get the dex crown. They seem to never die except when people like parth are in your group, and you have 92 hit, 20 crit unbuffed. The damage is the same as a dual dex/int wand mage, and 15 less than a pure wand mage.

In PvP they do fine in one v ones and small team fights, but in bigger ones they get KS'd non-stop. It's pretty hard to get a kill when competing with cust. birds and staff mages.

Same here, in terms of getting KS-ed

If in a team fight, I notice that as long as I get a Beckon + HS in (maybe and hopefully 3 of them get caught in it), I've done my part. The Stomp combo is just a bonus if I'm still alive from the spells/skills of those 3 that I beckoned, the deal with killing them moves on to the bird/mage in my team. Lol =/

[KingFu]

Reminds me of in ao2 when literally everyone was a pally because hit wasn't a problem. Thats the upside to be dex, the hit, crit is just a perk. Dex is the most universal spec between the three classes. I'd like to see bears have a higher hit base than the other 2 classes and keep gear somewhat to the way it is. Dex offering lots of hit and crit, low armor and dodge. Int offering awesome regen, and decent armor with okay crit, and str offering little or no hit and crit, but lots of armor and dodge.

[NECROREAPER]

This thread sums up why I hate most 55 str. gear and why I still run my hate+gurg hammer combo to tank.

I also really wish they would cater more to the attack-bear for end game gear -.-