[Post Buff Review]: Dagger vs. Bow

[Zeus]

Hello,

I just thought I would deliver some information after buff of the daggers! While proc'ing, I noticed a little bit more often, but still not enough. However, I only got a short amount of time to test the daggers. So, I will make a more educated decision on this further down the line as I've had the chance to play with the daggers more.

After buff, the daggers are now 20-30 skill damage less than bow and 2 stat damage less than bow. To me, this is okay. Why? You gain 550 HP, additional mana, more crit, and a 35% armor reduction proc as a trade-off. Thus, it is a nice balance between bow and dagger. If you're more into pure damage, pick bow. If you feel you need more survivability, pick daggers. Personally, I prefer the daggers.

In PvE, I would recommend at least 1 dagger rogue and 1 bow rogue. The weapons, it seems, are designed to play along side each other and benefit each other.

Well done, STG! Not bad! It may just need an additional tweak in the proc rate, but STG did pretty darn well on buffing these daggers without entirely making the bow useless.

[blazerdd]

I have also come to this conclusion. Glad to hear someone else agrees with me!

[oekeone]

Hello,

I just thought I would deliver some information after buff of the daggers! While proc'ing, I noticed a little bit more often, but still not enough. However, I only got a short amount of time to test the daggers. So, I will make a more educated decision on this further down the line as I've had the chance to play with the daggers more.

After buff, the daggers are now 20-30 skill damage less than bow and 2 stat damage less than bow. To me, this is okay. Why? You gain 550 HP, additional mana, more crit, and a 35% armor reduction proc as a trade-off. Thus, it is a nice balance between bow and dagger. If you're more into pure damage, pick bow. If you feel you need more survivability, pick daggers. Personally, I prefer the daggers.

In PvE, I would recommend at least 1 dagger rogue and 1 bow rogue. The weapons, it seems, are designed to play along side each other and benefit each other.

Well done, STG! Not bad! It may just need an additional tweak in the proc rate, but STG did pretty darn well on buffing these daggers without entirely making the bow useless.

Well done zeus ima buy the daggers this thread convinced me +1

[Zeus]

Mage staff loss 200 skill damage and crit. Only gain less 200hp.

Why you think opinion? Should also buff staff or no? I still learning

Mage staff loses about 90-100 skill damage when compared to gun of equal gems. I would ask for a slight buff to staff as well to bring it to the level of daggers where it's 20-30 skill damage less than the gun counterpart.

[Kingofninjas]

Mage staff loses about 90-100 skill damage when compared to gun of equal gems. I would ask for a slight buff to staff as well to bring it to the level of daggers where it's 20-30 skill damage less than the gun counterpart.

Was str added to the arcane daggers as part of buff? Because I noticed sword and daggers both have 1 additional stat bonus over staff. Staff gives int, str, crit and hp. Sword gives the same as staff, along which some mana, which helps set tanks. Daggers now seems to give Int, str, dex, crit, and hp.

That combined with the staff's low stat damage and unnaturally long charge time makes it quit a handful to use in PvP. It really needs some sort of buff to bring it to the same level as daggers and sword.

[Amokaachi]

Daggers add 350 hp over Bow. Tried them today at pvp. They still proc very very rare. They only procced twice in 2 hours

[Zeus]

Daggers add 350 hp over Bow. Tried them today at pvp. They still proc very very rare. They only procced twice in 2 hours

Yes, I noticed the same thing as well. The proc is still quite row and not worth it.

[mesalin]

I feel like that Proc come more often in pve when I'm in group of mobs and charge attack. (4-5 or more mobs) than simple mob or vs

<Forgiveness>

[Befs]

Mage staff loses about 90-100 skill damage when compared to gun of equal gems. I would ask for a slight buff to staff as well to bring it to the level of daggers where it's 20-30 skill damage less than the gun counterpart.

I feel like the staff is strong in it's procs, at least in PvE. For example the charged attack is buffing me / I would assume team about 30 damage, and 4-5 crit. Also the non-charged proc can melt bosses since it does damage by %.

Only thing I wonder is if the DoT (% damage tics) stacks if multiple arcane staffs

[Zeus]

I feel like that Proc come more often in pve when I'm in group of mobs and charge attack. (4-5 or more mobs) than simple mob or vs

<Forgiveness>

Yes, I notice this as well. The proc rate is decent in PvE but in PvP it seems as low and infrequent as it normally is. I hope developers can take a look into this and adjust accordingly. Thank you!

[Tatman]

I'd rather they kept the damage, but actually worked on the proc. Go test this thing in Rengol, it practically doesn't proc. I did two whole Elite Grotto runs (killed pretty much everything except the giants and the mobs around them), I saw the "dragon bite" text exactly 4 times total.

To me it looks like daggers proc quite often in certain maps, while in others they just don't. It was like this before the buff and I see no change now. I'm not sure if anything was actually done.

[Titanium]

At least they kept the arcane rarity for the proc rate. RIP drop rate !

[Jazzi]

I'd rather they kept the damage, but actually worked on the proc. Go test this thing in Rengol, it practically doesn't proc. I did two whole Elite Grotto runs (killed pretty much everything except the giants and the mobs around them), I saw the "dragon bite" text exactly 4 times total.

To me it looks like daggers proc quite often in certain maps, while in others they just don't. It was like this before the buff and I see no change now. I'm not sure if anything was actually done.

The "dragon's bite" is a secondary proc which does additional damage and has a 25% chance to proc on a mob, which is already affected by the primary proc (electrocute + stun + 35% armour reduction). The primary proc sadly has no distinctive visual, other than stun stars above the mobs' heads. Last but not least about half of the mobs in Rengol are immune to stun. Whether this means that the daggers practically can't proc on them is something sts needs to clarify

P.S. and yes the proc is still very rare. Can't really say if a change did take place or not

[Kakashis]

Some mobs are immune! Still rare. What gives

[Tatman]

The "dragon's bite" is a secondary proc which does additional damage and has a 25% chance to proc on a mob, which is already affected by the primary proc (electrocute + stun + 35% armour reduction). The primary proc sadly has no distinctive visual, other than stun stars above the mobs' heads. Last but not least about half of the mobs in Rengol are immune to stun. Whether this means that the daggers practically can't proc on them is something sts needs to clarify

P.S. and yes the proc is still very rare. Can't really say if a change did take place or not

This may be so, but go test in, say, Shuyal and then in Rengol, and count how many times you see "dragon bite".

[Carapace]

This may be so, but go test in, say, Shuyal and then in Rengol, and count how many times you see "dragon bite".

Just to chime in here, this would fit within the group sizes you can pull in these respective areas. In Shuyal you can grab a very large group of 10+ mobs, each attack hitting 4+, thus creating a high chance to proc. Ren'gol pulls are significantly smaller by comparison, and as pointed out some mobs are immune to stun. The comparison here is a little apples to oranges in that if the original test for the daggers was done in Shuyal, then the post buff test should also be compared in Shuyal for consistent results with a control case. Otherwise it's sort of like saying I find apple seeds when I eat apples, but I don't get nearly as many when I eat oranges and apples. To make a weak analogy.

[Titanium]

Just to chime in here, this would fit within the group sizes you can pull in these respective areas. In Shuyal you can grab a very large group of 10+ mobs, each attack hitting 4+, thus creating a high chance to proc. Ren'gol pulls are significantly smaller by comparison, and as pointed out some mobs are immune to stun. The comparison here is a little apples to oranges in that if the original test for the daggers was done in Shuyal, then the post buff test should also be compared in Shuyal for consistent results with a control case. Otherwise it's sort of like saying I find apple seeds when I eat apples, but I don't get nearly as many when I eat oranges and apples. To make a weak analogy.

Arcane sword's procs are too frequent and it's ruining the pvp clashing. The proc rate of sword is 80%. It's not possible to endure such bullying from a weapon. Look into this... i really hope it wasn't intended.

[Jazzi]

Just to chime in here, this would fit within the group sizes you can pull in these respective areas. In Shuyal you can grab a very large group of 10+ mobs, each attack hitting 4+, thus creating a high chance to proc. Ren'gol pulls are significantly smaller by comparison, and as pointed out some mobs are immune to stun. The comparison here is a little apples to oranges in that if the original test for the daggers was done in Shuyal, then the post buff test should also be compared in Shuyal for consistent results with a control case. Otherwise it's sort of like saying I find apple seeds when I eat apples, but I don't get nearly as many when I eat oranges and apples. To make a weak analogy.

So the proc can't be triggered on stun immune mobs?

Either way if future content is aiming at low mob density (as you kindly stated at the beginning of the season) the an adequate procrate should be based on this and not on what the mob density is in 2-3 years old content. Where did you test the proc yourselves if I may ask?

[Tatman]

Just to chime in here, this would fit within the group sizes you can pull in these respective areas. In Shuyal you can grab a very large group of 10+ mobs, each attack hitting 4+, thus creating a high chance to proc. Ren'gol pulls are significantly smaller by comparison, and as pointed out some mobs are immune to stun. The comparison here is a little apples to oranges in that if the original test for the daggers was done in Shuyal, then the post buff test should also be compared in Shuyal for consistent results with a control case. Otherwise it's sort of like saying I find apple seeds when I eat apples, but I don't get nearly as many when I eat oranges and apples. To make a weak analogy.

You can pull 10 mobs in Rengol, it still won't proc as often as in Shuyal (which was just an example, you can compare with Tindirin if you wish). Go map 3 - you can pull all three groups at the start of the map, that's more than 10 mobs. That's first.

Second, you are basically telling us daggers won't proc on stun immune mobs? Why? Are these mobs also immune to armor reduction, which is, in my opinion, the best part of the proc, at least pve-wise?

[debitmandiri]

4 daggers rog @ elite is op just saying again