109% Critical!

[KingFu]

yea. lovenus, on his main

Lovenus is his main...55 he used for it was broadcast which I don't think he uses much

False, no debuffs affect Crit. Over 100 crit is useless trust me...

This^

[Pharcyde]

Enemy armor should only affect crit damage; not crit percentage.

Crit dmg = 2 x (non-crit damage - enemy armor)

That's right, what about dodge though?

[friedkimchi]

Very technical stuff going on here.

I don't think enemies have dodge? Need confirmation.
Your attacks are entirely dependent on your hit %.
Since we have a hit% cap.

[JaytB]

Very technical stuff going on here.

I don't think enemies have dodge? Need confirmation.
Your attacks are entirely dependent on your hit %.
Since we have a hit% cap.

Enemies definitely have dodge.
Hit% cap is only for your auto attack, and not your skill dmg. Skill hit% isn't capped at all.

Edit:

That's right, what about dodge though?

I've been wondering about that a lot too. If I'd have 130% hit, and an enemy would have 30% dodge, would that mean my effective (skill) hit% is 130-30= 100%?

[KingFu]

Enemies definitely have dodge.
Hit% cap is only for your auto attack, and not your skill dmg. Skill hit% isn't capped at all.

Edit:


I've been wondering about that a lot too. If I'd have 130% hit, and an enemy would have 30% dodge, would that mean my effective (skill) hit% is 130-30= 100%?

Enemy dodge doesn't effect your hit%, only how often you hit. If that makes sense. Basically, the dmg is "rolled" to see if it will hit or miss, if it hits, it then rolls to see if the enemy will dodge the attack (rolls off of the percentages) then rolls for crit if the enemy does not dodge.

[JaytB]

Enemy dodge doesn't effect your hit%, only how often you hit. If that makes sense. Basically, the dmg is "rolled" to see if it will hit or miss, if it hits, it then rolls to see if the enemy will dodge the attack (rolls off of the percentages) then rolls for crit if the enemy does not dodge.

Thanks! And now that you mention this, I remember Physio made some kind of 'flowchart' for this.

So, if I understood correct, it doesn't have any use to have a hit% higher than 100%, right?

Edit: mm, I might have jumped to that conclusion a bit too fast... It makes sense if your hit% gets debuffed, that you'll still want 100%. so maybe higher than 100% does have its use.

[KingFu]

Thanks! And now that you mention this, I remember Physio made some kind of 'flowchart' for this.

So, if I understood correct, it doesn't have any use to have a hit% higher than 100%, right?

Edit: mm, I might have jumped to that conclusion a bit too fast... It makes sense if your hit% gets debuffed, that you'll still want 100%. so maybe higher than 100% does have its use.

It might if your hit effects how often the enemies dodge (which as far as I know no one has confirmed whether it does it doesn't) I don't think enemies dodge effects your hit% (only how many times you hit since you'll obviously land less hits on an enemy with 50% dodge versus 20% dodge) however hit may effect how many times the enemy dodges. Kinda confusing, for me at least, but that's the way I understand it from testing and reading others reports. May be wrong though lol

[WhoIsThis]

That's right, what about dodge though?

Dodge and crit are independent.

1. Do I hit? (dictated by your hit%; weapon hit is capped at about 86%; spells 100%) If not; miss.
2. Does the enemy dodge? (determined by enemy dodge)

So effective hit is my hit % - enemy dodge %.

3. Now that I hit, do I crit? Crit percentage is always going to be the same proportion of hits.

Lets say I've got 200 hits at 100% hit for a spell (for a weapon, due to the hit cap, only 172 will get through and 86 will be dodged). I've got an enemy that has really high dodge, say 50%. My crit is 60%.

So 100 hits get through. 100 are dodged. Of those, 60 will crit (for a weapon, that works out to just 51.6 shots critting).

Crit effective chance = my crit % x (my hit % - enemy dodge %)

Dmg from normal attack = my dmg - enemy armor
Dmg from crit attack = 2 x (my dmg - enemy armor)

The important thing is that your hit %, the enemy dodge %, and crit % are entirely independent, although you can debuff, buff, or be debuffed.

[JaytB]

Dodge and crit are independent.

1. Do I hit? (dictated by your hit%; weapon hit is capped at about 86%; spells 100%) If not; miss.
2. Does the enemy dodge? (determined by enemy dodge)

So effective hit is my hit % - enemy dodge %.

So you're saying that if I would have 150% hit, and an enemy would have 50% dodge... 150(hit) - 50(dodge)= 100% hit... I would have 100% hit?

Doesn't the dodge roll come before the hit roll?

[Physiologic]

Your hit% and an enemy's dodge% is completely independent of each other and are separate rolls altogether. The proof for this is that you can either MISS the enemy (your hit% fails and MISS appears on top of your head), OR the enemy's DODGE succeeds (your hit% succeeded but then the enemy's dodge roll comes into play and succeeds, and DODGE appears on top of the enemy's head).

Very simply put:


If hit% and enemy dodge% were in the same equation and you happened to fail your attack, you wouldn't know whether you MISSED or the enemy DODGED due to a hit% fail or a dodge% success.

Btw - which roll comes first doesn't matter - The enemy dodge roll may come before your hit% roll, but the outcome is the same: 2 rolls, independent from each other, are calculated in succession.

[WhoIsThis]

So you're saying that if I would have 150% hit, and an enemy would have 50% dodge... 150(hit) - 50(dodge)= 100% hit... I would have 100% hit?

Doesn't the dodge roll come before the hit roll?

Hit is capped at 86% for weapons and 100% for skills. Anything over 100% is not that useful, except when you are being debuffed.

In that case, you'd have 100% hit - 50% dodge = 50% hit; even if you had infinite hit %.

As Physiologic has said, hit or miss, then dodge, and finally crit.

[Sigkill]

On my Dexchantress I remember critting everytime with like 102 percent crit, I doubt it would be different with 100%

[JaytB]

Hit is capped at 86% for weapons and 100% for skills. Anything over 100% is not that useful, except when you are being debuffed.

In that case, you'd have 100% hit - 50% dodge = 50% hit; even if you had infinite hit %.

As Physiologic has said, hit or miss, then dodge, and finally crit.

Thank you, I got it now

[friedkimchi]

Your hit% and an enemy's dodge% is completely independent of each other and are separate rolls altogether. The proof for this is that you can either MISS the enemy (your hit% fails and MISS appears on top of your head), OR the enemy's DODGE succeeds (your hit% succeeded but then the enemy's dodge roll comes into play and succeeds, and DODGE appears on top of the enemy's head).

Very simply put:


If hit% and enemy dodge% were in the same equation and you happened to fail your attack, you wouldn't know whether you MISSED or the enemy DODGED due to a hit% fail or a dodge% success.

Btw - which roll comes first doesn't matter - The enemy dodge roll may come before your hit% roll, but the outcome is the same: 2 rolls, independent from each other, are calculated in succession.

Thanks Physiologic for the flowchart. It sums everything up very nicely.

[JaytB]

Your hit% and an enemy's dodge% is completely independent of each other and are separate rolls altogether. The proof for this is that you can either MISS the enemy (your hit% fails and MISS appears on top of your head), OR the enemy's DODGE succeeds (your hit% succeeded but then the enemy's dodge roll comes into play and succeeds, and DODGE appears on top of the enemy's head).

Very simply put:


If hit% and enemy dodge% were in the same equation and you happened to fail your attack, you wouldn't know whether you MISSED or the enemy DODGED due to a hit% fail or a dodge% success.

Btw - which roll comes first doesn't matter - The enemy dodge roll may come before your hit% roll, but the outcome is the same: 2 rolls, independent from each other, are calculated in succession.

Somehow I missed your post O.o

Anyway, thanks for including that 'flowchart, and for the clear explanation :/

[Lovablemage]

Just for fun:



And before all you experienced mages beat me up: That's not my build, I just did that once to find out the maximum crit!

how do u only have to get 1 exp hacker?

[WhoIsThis]

On my Dexchantress I remember critting everytime with like 102 percent crit, I doubt it would be different with 100%

It won't be. There's no skills to the best of my knowledge that debuff crit.

[Swimmingstar]

Very technical stuff going on here.

I don't think enemies have dodge? Need confirmation.
Your attacks are entirely dependent on your hit %.
Since we have a hit% cap.

balloons have dodge so do enemies

[Swimmingstar]

how do u only have to get 1 exp hacker?

lol thats level cap