Itemization Updates & The New Expansion

[Carapace]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible.

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.

Regular Blood, Glacial, Fire Gems Granting Cracked Jewels
This has already been touched upon, but the reality of this is the overwhelming supply of the base level gems involved. Concerns about the secondary market price for Jewels tanking was one of our top concerns when making this addition to the game and shutting off Gems for the future. Providing a Standard Jewel conversion for the basic Gem types would have done just that. We would have liked to keep it even and provided a Standard Jewel, in fact it was our original plan, but the numbers did not add up because there were just too many and it would have devastating effects on the market because of the permanent nature of jewels in the game.

For those curious, it would have increased the number of Standard Jewels in the ecnonomy 20x. That's a lot!

Thanks guys!

-Carapace

[Jeremiah-prince Emokpae]

What you want to say? That I can not convert parastone in my ring or eyes in my planar pendant to this jewels??? What??? What will happen to those things then? Shall i say bye bye to millions i gave for them???? And just smile? Same as to millions and time i spend to get glinstone set?
All bye bye and smile?

Its the best option if heard paras all got the noble gems people could buy para expedition rifle for like 200k and planar staff for like whatever it cost which s cheap then convert them into the nobles and become rich, there no other way of resolving it

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk

[Irg]

Well, if mage skill mastery sheild is 55%+ damage reduce and with 20% doge mage can have 75% damage reduced if you count as....

[mapenjay]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible.

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.

Regular Blood, Glacial, Fire Gems Granting Cracked Jewels
This has already been touched upon, but the reality of this is the overwhelming supply of the base level gems involved. Concerns about the secondary market price for Jewels tanking was one of our top concerns when making this addition to the game and shutting off Gems for the future. Providing a Standard Jewel conversion for the basic Gem types would have done just that. We would have liked to keep it even and provided a Standard Jewel, in fact it was our original plan, but the numbers did not add up because there were just too many and it would have devastating effects on the market because of the permanent nature of jewels in the game.

For those curious, it would have increased the number of Standard Jewels in the ecnonomy 20x. That's a lot!

Thanks guys!

-Carapace

i see no negative impact on standard jewels price when you implement it

[Visiting]

My only question: Why are eyes and paras equal in amount of jewels that are given in return? For eyes it's a great trade off but for paras it's flat out silly to trade off.. Plus the supply of paras/eyes are nowhere near the same at this point, along with other factors like paras are account bound and were released at a different time and were awarded for a different thing (singular platinum reward for Halloween 2014), whilst eyes were craftable throughout the winter 2014 (?) event..

[Oraah]

I'm losing too much gold with every update. I'm playing hard,but I'm always losing. What about ppl who bought Shady and surge for 9m and after 1h it's with tokens, and why you do that with this jewels?I'm tired.

[Anehazaz]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible.

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.

Regular Blood, Glacial, Fire Gems Granting Cracked Jewels
This has already been touched upon, but the reality of this is the overwhelming supply of the base level gems involved. Concerns about the secondary market price for Jewels tanking was one of our top concerns when making this addition to the game and shutting off Gems for the future. Providing a Standard Jewel conversion for the basic Gem types would have done just that. We would have liked to keep it even and provided a Standard Jewel, in fact it was our original plan, but the numbers did not add up because there were just too many and it would have devastating effects on the market because of the permanent nature of jewels in the game.

For those curious, it would have increased the number of Standard Jewels in the ecnonomy 20x. That's a lot!

Thanks guys!

-Carapace

carapace, thanks at least for acknowledging some of the concerns in these posts. As regards the Jewel system I never liked it from the start but it's here to stay and the proposals you're making address the issues and confusion surrounding the old gems.
As regards rogue armor etc hmm... I hear what your saying but I also listened when I was told that the work I would put into acquiring the glinstone set would be worth it and yet even after a full season I have not accumulated enough fangs to complete it and feedback I received from other rogues was that it was a total waste of time and money...is it any wonder that some of us who have played this game from very near to the start are disillusioned with the paths we are being led down. The prospect of farming for a 'mythic set' appeared exciting but sadly failed to meet our expectations, for rogue anyway.... Maybe I'm missing something but I can't help feeling that we got trolled!

[soon]

In my opinion I understand that you want a more balanced game at lv 56. Rogues will have more damage, new items will be added and it can be worrying for the balance. But the problem is that we are still in lv 46. Honestly, have mobs that kill me with a single hit playing in elite even though 5k health.

Compared with warriors, we do not have the same healing skills and defensive that they have. What makes living rogues is insanely press the Q button and spend several pots. Understand that rogues are the worst class to attack crowds.

What you call "rogues are tanks" all this was because of arcane ring and planar pendent. Providing for rogues health and mana enough for them to deal with local elites. Players before the lv 41 can not use it. Coming in lv 56 probably these items will not give better still that the 56.

New features. Just have one skill that was placed into a small defensive increase, all others are to reduce recharge time, mana or improve the damage.

If you want to make a nerf should have expected the season 56 start.

[Tapash Bose]

I totally agree.Without nekro it is impossible for an average geared rogue to survive in Elite Rengol. So the tanking concern is furthest away from the truth to say the least.All the modifications are aimed towards providing warriors an unfair advantage.Why ? The best solution was to increase the armor for mages to bring about a better class balance .
Now a days there are too many warriors with 10k health,3k + armor and 800 plus damage. So they are not weaker than anybody.Complaining in the forum should not be the criteria for nerfing other classes.If armor needs to be nerfed for rogues then damage needs to go the same way for warriors.

Also I do not agree with the jewel exchange system .Moneywise you are compensating half a billion for a single para or eye gem.Previously ppl always lost money during changes be it from locked crate to rengol or from gem to jewel.Statistics wise you are giving 8 int,8 str ,8 dex for a single gem along with crit and armor. Dont you think this is giving unfair advantages to the hoarders ? This will create more difference in the game than intended.One noble gem of choice would have been a fairer deal.

Also nerfing the rendtail ring is a poor idea.Bring out something that will have higher stats and it will ease out eventually.Why nerf ?

[Tapash Bose]

Rogues are only to blame for that. They seldom complain.They always go about working on their shortcomings silently.This si a bad quality isnt it? PPl with 10k hp,3k armor and 800 dmg complain and complain and complain..so they need to be made even more powerful..loool..ideally should increase mage armor..but no..that will dissatisfy the complaining class..so better nerf the silent ones xD

[Tapash Bose]

The highest effective damage class should have the least survivability. That is balance. I hear the rogues talking bout hard to survive with 1800 armor in elites. If I spec damage passive now on Mage I have 1505 armor and don't spec shield. It's harder but doable. Just can't play the same way. Make adjustments. It could be worse. Think if your purpose in game was to have the most mana and give people mana in pvp!! @@


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Same way highest hp and armor holders should hv lowest damage.It cannot be one way only.So nerf damages of warriors too.Now a days most warriors have 800 plus damage.When advising how to nerf other classes to bring balance,why look the other way for a particular class.Partial truth is always damaging.

[Rosybuds]

So all these fire gems I had been buying for 100k 150k depending on when bc I could not afford 200k for a standard finesse are going too be worth 2K as thats what I was paying for cracked Finesse today Well Great if they are the same as Standard +4 they should be swapped for standard not cracked !!!I dont want anyone to go near my Arcane ring Do it at your peril !!! But seriously So what are you doing bringing out another Arcane ring or higher mythic ring I get a bit lost with all these stats or is it a case we can bring our arcane rings back up too parr with the new gems ? Also This is really important too me Please Someone Answer me On This Like Most of us Running our butts of farming fangs for L46 Quest Armour that we had too do The Legion Quest Armour that cost me milliions in legions at the time & still sits in my stash covered in dust Is it time too stop farming Fangs as Im Seeing L47 Mythic Helm are out in Auction already and L47mythic rings too so Whats the point of L46 Mythic What was the Point of the whole Thing !!! When now we are just going to be able too buy Well when I say We I mean Some are going too just buy L47Mythic Which we asked and asked to do with L46 instead of the contant running three maps for one useless set Legion and now what looks like another Useless set L46 Mythic, So Please just give some Info About the rest of this L47 mythic Armour So I can either try make some gold by selling any Fangs I get or should I still be keeping them for this L46 Set !!! Please could a Dev mod Tell Me .... Not even four days ago I used 120 fangs & spoke about on here to make the Glintstone helm !!!!! Why did no one say stop making these sets as we are bring out mythics sets that can be Bought threw crates !!! Are these going too be like the legion sets lying in our Stash as I all ready Said Will Someone Please Answer bc if I sell the fangs Ive got now then you put out that we have too craft The Rest of the L47 set with the L46 set I scream this full game down its feel like we are being Shafted left right and centre when all it takes more information. I could have sold those 120 fangs instead of sitting with a yellow crown not worth a penny !! I feel like Ive been invited it too a wedding bought the hat worth a damn fortune & the wedding got cancelled .... So Angry Right now sitting thinking will I sell these fangs will I not and wait till we get some info then they are down too 2k each before i find out I should have sold them straight away.... HELP I dont want Two Sets that nearly killed me farming and spending millions on to be sitting in my stash. I didnt even wear the Legion one I dont think anyone did... Sorry one more point But Who Picked Brown for a colour of a crown BROWN What happened too bright shiny colours too make it stand out !! Ohh thats the least of the problems Please tell us about the this L46 Mythic set Will I STOP or Is their a Quest involved with it with L47 Mythic Set... PLEASE TELL ME ...

[Solanu]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible.

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.

Regular Blood, Glacial, Fire Gems Granting Cracked Jewels
This has already been touched upon, but the reality of this is the overwhelming supply of the base level gems involved. Concerns about the secondary market price for Jewels tanking was one of our top concerns when making this addition to the game and shutting off Gems for the future. Providing a Standard Jewel conversion for the basic Gem types would have done just that. We would have liked to keep it even and provided a Standard Jewel, in fact it was our original plan, but the numbers did not add up because there were just too many and it would have devastating effects on the market because of the permanent nature of jewels in the game.

For those curious, it would have increased the number of Standard Jewels in the ecnonomy 20x. That's a lot!

Thanks guys!

-Carapace

Hi Carapace,

Thankyou for responding to our concerns.

I understand that you have made this change with solid reasoning, but I really do question whether you have seen the actual effect in game.

For example, I am a well geared rogue, preupdate 1951 armour 4.45hp, I could run the glinstone maps with a full team, with a war, and be relatively safe. I would get the occasional one shot by op mobs or bosses, but the damage taken was manageable with pots and mob control. After update, I am randomly one shotted every other mob group and the only way to manage the damage taken is spamming hp pots, to the point that you are doing that more than skills.

I mentioned earlier that dagger rogues really suffer this worse, as we have to get close to mobs to take advantage of the stun proc. And having just introduced another arcane dagger over an arcane bow, many end game rogues are built for dagger use. This type of rogue should be able to tank more than the bow rogue, that is how they are supposed to be used. So punishing us for playing that way seems pretty unfair, and not in the interest of class versatility.

For now, I have left pvp, something that I was really enjoying prior to this update, it was still a challenge, but with good gear it was fun. Now with the armour reduction I am back to being like a badly geared rogue, despite the large amount of gold and plat spent gearing up. Any war with the arc sword (most in pvp) encounter is auto loss, and mages too get an easy kill. In all honesty I can't understand why you have done this, it has severely impacted all rogues, including twink lvls to the point where the rogue class will retire from pvp. You can't think that is good for the game going forward? At least if you going to nerf one class, nerf the others too to create the neccesary balance, the change to only rogues feels like a punishment and has led to a lot of very unhappy players.

Your suggestion is to play around with the new skill masteries and skill options to find a work around. But after playing this game since it began I have a pretty good idea of how I like to play, and suggesting we spec skills we don't like again seems counter productive to game play.

Regarding skills please can you take a look at razor shield, I beleive some element of it isn't working (Zeus mentioned earlier in the thread) and perhaps give it a facelift to reflect skill attacks so that it could be a relevant skill in pvp. And also the damage aspect of shadow veil does not stack with any 15% damage pet, thereby rendering half of this skills worth useless.

I personally use traps in pve, and I would love to see a skill mastery for it that adds functionality to it rather than cool down which can already be specd in the basic skill tree. I will make a separate post on the new skill masterys as I think rogues got the bad end of that as well and i guess you guys would appreciate feedback on them.

I really hope you re-address this armour reduction soon as I and many others are upset by this and doing the things I like doing, i.e. end game elites and pvp, have become not enjoyable, which has and will lead to more people leaving. :-/

Regards,

Solanu

[Adonisius]

STS Please, answer my question. Can i remove the gem from my item without lose it when the conversion finally comes?

[Ticklish]

What you want to say? That I can not convert parastone in my ring or eyes in my planar pendant to this jewels??? What??? What will happen to those things then? Shall i say bye bye to millions i gave for them???? And just smile? Same as to millions and time i spend to get glinstone set?
All bye bye and smile?

STS Please, answer my question. Can i remove the gem from my item without lose it when the conversion finally comes?

Gems have never been removable. This feature was only made available for jewels.

We have to accept that most items in game depreciate. If our items never lost their value after some time, then there would be no point in farming and we would all just be recycling gold.

I do however, agree that the glintstone set should not completely lose its value and be relegated to the cobwebs of our stash. Even the first ones to acquire it have barely had half a year of game play. And many more have yet to complete theirs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ticklish]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible.

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.

Thanks guys!

-Carapace

Thanks for listening. We know that you do your math. However what we really ask is for you to play the game like we do. Many of the rogues you see commenting here clock in many hours in hard elites. Most of us are at least fairly geared. We are speaking from experience.

It was really debilitating to have this armor nerf come out before expansion. We have no other options currently available, so it makes us like sitting ducks, especially those who pvp. For pve rogues, this means that potion and ankh costs just got higher, despite farmable items (fangs, vials and jewels) becoming cheaper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Earlingstad]

Rogue Armor
..however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.



Thanks guys!

-Carapace

1. "It is too soon to make snap judgements". The feedback is not based on snap-judgement. It is based on actual game-play for years. As you have suggested that we play around with the tools available...Could you please inform us how can low level players use Skill Mastery? I believe it is allowed only at lvl 20 and up. So obviously there are no tools to compensate for this loss. Besides because of the buff-debuff glitch that the dev-team has so conveniently neglected, rogues cannot even use points on armor passives because it will get canceled out by pet buff. So please enlighten us how can twink rogues compensate for the loss of armor now?

2. There are active twink brackets at lvl 10-16. Please explain how is it an educated change for rogues to lose armor and crit at low levels where their hp, armor, crit and damage are already low and they are not even receiving the pet's dmg % boost? What is the reasoning? The tankiness of low-level tanks and the amount of damage they are able to acquire has been time and again mentioned throughout the forum in older threads. And yet why was it important to weaken twink rogues even more? Please convince us about the validity of this new armor nerf on twink rogues.

3. Probably priority is endgame. Probably it is actually wished that twink players will level up and go endgame after this change. But, thats not going to happen since there is a very active twink pvp community at low-levels which has been playing and investing consistently since season 2 and that is what they log in for. What is going to happen is that rogues will play less and less until all there is left is only warriors and a few mages at twink pvp. Infact most twinks already play endgame and farm to afford their twinks, so I dont see why the aim is to kill low level brackets when its just extra consumers for ingame items.

4. No amount of "underlying data" can be more valuable in decision-making than direct feedback from active players and devs actually playing the game to check if the feedback is true. Please join an active guild as a rogue at low level and lets see if you are not flooded with " out out need tank ". Legitimacy of opinions can be probed by playing at that active bracket where an issue has arisen.

[AortaeFTW]

Remiem,

First off, I would like to say great job on this new content!

I think one of the few changes that needs to be made is that Para and Eye gems should be allowed to be turned into the new 8th-9th tier gem. Otherwise, this will just crash the noble market and cause a lot of collectors to lose money. Keep in mind that these people who purchase eyes/paras are your biggest spenders. People like Papa are valuable assets to the company. I do like the compromise though, you guys did great in minimizing the damage while phasing out the gems. Good job!

EDIT: Never mind to the 9th tier suggestion, I was not aware that 1 eye would give a noble for each jewel. GG!


My second issue is with the planar pendant. If this does not get nerfed in a similar way as the arcane ring has been, then it will have issues further down the road too as then eyes and paras will never truly be phased out.

Lastly, how much armor reduction are we talking about for rogues? The thing is, while razor is a great damage reduction, it does not stack with the bonuses of Nekro. So, essentially, it's a full out nerf. This will result in many things: increased one hits in PvP (damage is already WAY too high for any class) and more reasons not to use rogue in a clash. Why? Sorcerers, with their shield, actually end up taking far less damage than rogues do. Our armor is still well below warriors. If you look at the gap for warrior to rogue armor, it's about 700-800, depending on the set up. If you look at the gap for sorcerer to rogue it's about 700 as well. So, reducing this gap while not taking into account the mage shield or the fact that damage reduction does not stack (making razor upgrade useless if you have nekro) will just lead to further class issues.

This way, the collectors do not lose value and the gem system is phased out for good as well!

this one sts. issue about planar perdant
we'll move to lv 56, why item lv 41 with OP discontinued gem still best? -_-
move on pls

[Bameely]

1. Means [pls make use of all tools available rogues. Click on button, spend plats to buy dmg lix/dmg reduction lix etc etc. Stop complaining & spend & spend. You hv a choice!]

2. Players might cold-storage theirs rogues now. Play Warrior. Before, it used to be many rogues, few tanks. Now after update, we will see more warriors, few rogues. Then community will start to grumble again just like how it happened b4. Cycle repeated.

3. Maybe true - play till endgame (lv 56) b4 u complain rogues. By then it will be a different scenario w yr new stats n mastery. So, pls endure & keep dying all yr way up or spend & still die all yr way up then we'll see.

*bringing out my Warrior now* . Simply not fun to die n pot more than trying to be useful in pt by killing mobs fast. Sorry, we dont hv time to kill mobs.. we will be busy trying surviving.

[Fredystern]

Para and eye gem too op till they give a noble in return lol