With regards to the rogue armor nerf

[Americabud]

I have an idea try out some Diamond jewels! around 80+ armour per full diamond equipment. im a mage and almost all my gear is full of diamond jewels and ive added 300 armour in just 4 pieces of gear. And rouges hit higher than mages so i understand why sts changed whos squishier mage or rouge. apparently mages are a support class and supposed to heal team and stuff, while rouges just does crazy damage, which does it make more sense to die first... the mage that cant heal the team if they die first do to 1 hit by rouge, or the rouge thats gonna do more damage in 3-4 seconds than any other class can do. "kill fast die fast" i think the rouge should die before the mage, shoot the rouge shoud die before everybody, you cant be #1 damage dealer + tank no class has it all

[intrepd]

I have an idea try out some Diamond jewels! around 80+ armour per full diamond equipment. im a mage and almost all my gear is full of diamond jewels and ive added 300 armour in just 4 pieces of gear. And rouges hit higher than mages so i understand why sts changed whos squishier mage or rouge. apparently mages are a support class and supposed to heal team and stuff, while rouges just does crazy damage, which does it make more sense to die first... the mage that cant heal the team if they die first do to 1 hit by rouge, or the rouge thats gonna do more damage in 3-4 seconds than any other class can do. "kill fast die fast" i think the rouge should die before the mage, shoot the rouge shoud die before everybody, you cant be #1 damage dealer + tank no class has it all

You know that mages were tankier even before the nerf? Thats what i noticed that they got 2 shields to sync during clashes but rogues gets 7-6 seconds of no shield to die in also mage heal is way more useful as if you're in trouble you can heal instantly but rogues has to pick up their packs, if you aren't near a wall then you cant pick them and sometimes it drops far even if you threw toward the wall.

Look at tanks now they're a tanky rogue with juggernaut and OP damage. What's the point of wasting rogue set on diamond? Increase armor and lose hp and mana dex? Rogue will still die easy due to the loss of hp and won't hit hard due to the loss of damage? Know how many damage rogues will lose if they gem their gear with diamond? And even though rogues won't get back the same amount of armor they lost with nerf using diamond gems.

[uehi]

I have an idea try out some Diamond jewels! around 80+ armour per full diamond equipment. im a mage and almost all my gear is full of diamond jewels and ive added 300 armour in just 4 pieces of gear. And rouges hit higher than mages so i understand why sts changed whos squishier mage or rouge. apparently mages are a support class and supposed to heal team and stuff, while rouges just does crazy damage, which does it make more sense to die first... the mage that cant heal the team if they die first do to 1 hit by rouge, or the rouge thats gonna do more damage in 3-4 seconds than any other class can do. "kill fast die fast" i think the rouge should die before the mage, shoot the rouge shoud die before everybody, you cant be #1 damage dealer + tank no class has it all

what a kinda joke id that cant talk with it.

[xxalivexx]

Why not instead of demanding your "armor" back wich it was never meant in the first place why not use armor gems pet and use pots?
rouges indeed were more tankier then warriors and remember when everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them their better off naked bla bla bla and now reality hits you and what you do come here and make a thread almost every day right? if they give your "armor" back there's gonna be consequences i wouldn't be making any more threads if i was you,and remember the cake exploiters that made over 100m gold of it someone was even making threads on how to do it can you get any more selfish then that?

Actually your wrong, i can clearly see you play as a tank cause you disagree with the statement, im on the edge of quitting the game period, the armor nerf was the biggest mistake sts made for a rog, 46 isnt even playable for rogs without being smashed in seconds, op rog vs op tank is a dominate match, the tank would win hands down, dragon sword is too much, we have no way to regen our mana fast enough to keep us alive, we have armor loss, we have damage loss entering pvp, whats next, im waiting to find out so i can just delete this game, until then I'll be waiting patiently.

And lets see some of you tank players spend hundreds of thousands for some diamond jewels that give like 28 armor max or whatever, not much help.

[Americabud]

what a kinda joke id that cant talk with it.

i couldnt understand your sentence food

[Americabud]

You know that mages were tankier even before the nerf? Thats what i noticed that they got 2 shields to sync during clashes but rogues gets 7-6 seconds of no shield to die in also mage heal is way more useful as if you're in trouble you can heal instantly but rogues has to pick up their packs, if you aren't near a wall then you cant pick them and sometimes it drops far even if you threw toward the wall.

Look at tanks now they're a tanky rogue with juggernaut and OP damage. What's the point of wasting rogue set on diamond? Increase armor and lose hp and mana dex? Rogue will still die easy due to the loss of hp and won't hit hard due to the loss of damage? Know how many damage rogues will lose if they gem their gear with diamond? And even though rogues won't get back the same amount of armor they lost with nerf using diamond gems.

do i know that mages were tankier before the nerf... nope i didnt know that im pretty sure sts didnt decide to armor nerf rouges because they were squishy lmao i think they nerfed rouges armor because mage had 1600 armour rouges had 2200 armor + rouge is #1 dmg dealer... nice try though lol rouges more squishier than mages yeah right

[intrepd]

do i know that mages were tankier before the nerf... nope i didnt know that im pretty sure sts didnt decide to armor nerf rouges because they were squishy lmao i think they nerfed rouges armor because mage had 1600 armour rouges had 2200 armor + rouge is #1 dmg dealer... nice try though lol rouges more squishier than mages yeah right

Idk if you're agreeing or its sarcasm but its true that mages are tankier than rogues also mind to answer the jewels question i asked you above?

[Tapash Bose]

i retired my rogue in rengol after i got the aegis, and i decided to focus on tank. i ran with a lot of people, so you can have plenty of references besides myself. But this is not the subject of the thread. It s class balance.

u did not read the whole statement..show me a rogue who can stay alive in elite glintstone wo nekro or furious pot spamming ....razor shields do hv a cooldown however small it may be ...

[Americabud]

Idk if you're agreeing or its sarcasm but its true that mages are tankier than rogues also mind to answer the jewels question i asked you above?

you said mages were tankier than rouges before the armor nerf. if mages were tankier than rouges then why would sts nerf rouge armor. you think people who created and developed the game sat in a room of computers and game info and decided i think we should armor nerf the rouges since they are weakest tank.. i dont think so, they probaly sat in the studio and said why dont we reduce rouge armor since they are the #1 damage dealers in the game and they tank like warriors

you also said "look at tanks theyre a tanky rouge..." sts probaly noticed rouges shouldnt have ever been competing with tanks or getting compared to tanks. that goes to show how op rouges have been for the entire game. like i said and even a fellow rouge said "kill fast die fast"

for your "jewel question" you said if you use diamond jewels in your gear you will lose damage. thats called a tradeoff. if i said kill fast die fast, then logically kill slow die slow. youve had it both ways for a long time so your used to it, but trust me sts is balancing the game you should have never had it both ways, in the past rouge hp:5000 crit:50 dmg:900 armor:2200 meaning sts has balanced the game between classes more than it used to be in the past when rouges had more armor than alot of warriors and more damage and crit than alot of mages. just try out those noble+ diamond jewels if you want to dont knock it till you try it

[yubaraj]

You know that mages were tankier even before the nerf? Thats what i noticed that they got 2 shields to sync during clashes but rogues gets 7-6 seconds of no shield to die in also mage heal is way more useful as if you're in trouble you can heal instantly but rogues has to pick up their packs, if you aren't near a wall then you cant pick them and sometimes it drops far even if you threw toward the wall.

Look at tanks now they're a tanky rogue with juggernaut and OP damage. What's the point of wasting rogue set on diamond? Increase armor and lose hp and mana dex? Rogue will still die easy due to the loss of hp and won't hit hard due to the loss of damage? Know how many damage rogues will lose if they gem their gear with diamond? And even though rogues won't get back the same amount of armor they lost with nerf using diamond gems.

Have you ever played mage in pvp?

Mages were tankier than rogue before armor nerf. Really lol.

Mage has to sacrifice one skill slot to utilise arcane shield. Nekro aa doesn't stack. That means if someone decide to use nekro aa's in the middle then mage cannot sync nekro shield. BTW nekro shield is way weaker than arcane shield. Mage get one comboed by rogue even in nekro shield. And get one shotted if there is no shield. Heal without charged is not that useful. So even mage heal instantly that's useless.

Also don't forget mage is AOE class. So mages should perform better in clash than rogues. If rogue is equal to mage in clash then there is no point playing mage class.

About the thread topic, I was agreeing on giving some armor back to rogue as current situation; Rogue dies like a fly in clash if they just want to spam their attack skill. I don't want them to disappear from pvp rooms.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Hey everyone,

We always appreciate the discussions going on, just don't forget to keep things civil while you debate .

Since it hasn't been brought up yet, the design team did some research and based on the way armor values scale as your level increases, at current end-game levels Nature Jewels are more effective for survival than Diamond Jewels due to the amount of hp they give. This gets even better at higher tiers of the jewels (superb, noble, exquisite) so you'll find more survivability if you socket some Nature Jewels instead of Diamond.

[intrepd]

Have you ever played mage in pvp?

Mages were tankier than rogue before armor nerf. Really lol.

Mage has to sacrifice one skill slot to utilise arcane shield. Nekro aa doesn't stack. That means if someone decide to use nekro aa's in the middle then mage cannot sync nekro shield. BTW nekro shield is way weaker than arcane shield. Mage get one comboed by rogue even in nekro shield. And get one shotted if there is no shield. Heal without charged is not that useful. So even mage heal instantly that's useless.

Also don't forget mage is AOE class. So mages should perform better in clash than rogues. If rogue is equal to mage in clash then there is no point playing mage class.

About the thread topic, I was agreeing on giving some armor back to rogue as current situation; Rogue dies like a fly in clash if they just want to spam their attack skill. I don't want them to disappear from pvp rooms.

This goes for general not only endgame, but also for twinks, u ever tried twink mage? I got a mage that can farm twinks in my level after the nerf but before it was almost 50/50

[intrepd]

you said mages were tankier than rouges before the armor nerf. if mages were tankier than rouges then why would sts nerf rouge armor. you think people who created and developed the game sat in a room of computers and game info and decided i think we should armor nerf the rouges since they are weakest tank.. i dont think so, they probaly sat in the studio and said why dont we reduce rouge armor since they are the #1 damage dealers in the game and they tank like warriors

you also said "look at tanks theyre a tanky rouge..." sts probaly noticed rouges shouldnt have ever been competing with tanks or getting compared to tanks. that goes to show how op rouges have been for the entire game. like i said and even a fellow rouge said "kill fast die fast"

for your "jewel question" you said if you use diamond jewels in your gear you will lose damage. thats called a tradeoff. if i said kill fast die fast, then logically kill slow die slow. youve had it both ways for a long time so your used to it, but trust me sts is balancing the game you should have never had it both ways, in the past rouge hp:5000 crit:50 dmg:900 armor:2200 meaning sts has balanced the game between classes more than it used to be in the past when rouges had more armor than alot of warriors and more damage and crit than alot of mages. just try out those noble+ diamond jewels if you want to dont knock it till you try it

So why did they nerf armor when sword and mythic maul came out? They did not when aegis was around? Exactly because as u said its called tradeoff tanks lose their armor for damage then spam forums for rogues has almost close to our armor.
A sword well geared tank can hit 2600 armor or close, a maxed rogue is around 2100 and a fully maxed tank with shield is 3200 lets see 1100 different in armor?

[Right]

Ever since the nerf I've seen more and more rogues getting useless and dying 2x as much if not 3x more tanks are op even before that sword came because they actually use skills but now I see them rely too much on sword rather than skill

They are not useless you need to shoot your arrows from far away and since you have so much dodge, you dont get hit 100% of the time
if you use daggers then your life is at risk because your getting right in the action faces either use bow or daggers.

i dont understand your logic there "tanks are op even before the sword came because they actually use "skills" but now i see them rely too much on sword rather then "skill" ??? maybe those rouges you saw dying 3x more were afk Right? those rouges before the nerf sure were more tankier then warriors because you never saw them die there's your prove

[Deathlyreaper]

I am a Mage and +1 to this thread

Give rouges SOME of their armours back. Not all but some and see how that turns out.

Also pls nerf the aimed shot. Just the aimed shot. On both pvp and pve. I was doing a test with my guildie. I put 4/5 on shield except the knockback and 10/10 mastery on shield( which equals 70% dmg reduction. Or at least I hope it's 70% unless the mastery is bugged). My rogue guildie had 800dmg (with the 20% reduction) (so in total that would 90% dmg reduction) and he broke my shield in 6 hits. (4 if u don't count the 2 hits from the invulnerability). Also if I don't heal, he will kill me before the shield is broken and I have (5.5k hp). Many times rougues can crit like 3k on aimed shot. 3K WITH 90% dmg reduction. 3K is a lot for a Mage. I literally die in like 5 secs against rougues because of their aimed shot. I even lose to rougues even though I have more dmg than them in town.

So give some of their armour back and see if it balances and also reduce their aimed shot dmg

P.S my str is like 120+ and int is like 600+

[Right]

The problem is not only with PvP, the pve is unbalanced, rogue 18 with normal gear (500 armor, 115 dmg) can't solo the second Dead City Boss, War lvl 13 with the golden skull armor (don't remember the name) can do it, in lvl 40+ is balanced but in low lvls the rogues are dying so fast. (Imagine the KDR 10000 Deaths/3000 Kills). I want a perfect KDR rogue and had to restart the char 3 times in a week.

Twinks are just for fun thats why is an alt and that's why they exist otherwise they wouldn't even be here so have fun while you can
probably 3% of people take twinking seriously i personally think is a waste of time

[Manuel Emilio]

Twinks are just for fun thats why is an alt and that's why they exist otherwise they wouldn't even be here so have fun while you can
probably 3% of people take twinking seriously i personally think is a waste of time

I this coment I'm not talking about PvP or twink dude, I'm talking about how a rogue in lvl 18 with dmg 100-125 and 500 armor can't solo with boss of second Dead city map and a War lvl 13 With 74-80 dmg and 500 armor can do it (the health help a lot the war, but the rogue don't have enough health, so give them some armor back).

[yubaraj]

This goes for general not only endgame, but also for twinks, u ever tried twink mage? I got a mage that can farm twinks in my level after the nerf but before it was almost 50/50

I am mainly twink pvp player. I did pvp on all classes in twink brackets however I preferred playing mage. I play both endgame and twink pvp. I know how squishy mages are in twink brackets.

Thats why I have suggested in this thread earlier to remove rogue armor nerf but buff mage's armor. That would have helped mages to be more competitive with both classes as well as in low level pvp and engage too. I guess that would have create less crying. I am not sure though because rogue always wants to be op. And warrior would have hard time fighting mages too.

It's hard to make everyone happy.

[Serancha]

Hey everyone,

We always appreciate the discussions going on, just don't forget to keep things civil while you debate .

Since it hasn't been brought up yet, the design team did some research and based on the way armor values scale as your level increases, at current end-game levels Nature Jewels are more effective for survival than Diamond Jewels due to the amount of hp they give. This gets even better at higher tiers of the jewels (superb, noble, exquisite) so you'll find more survivability if you socket some Nature Jewels instead of Diamond.

Interesting hints at the armour mechanics there. HP > armour (once reasonable armour levels are met) follows with what some have tested in past seasons. Thanks Vroom!

I think one of the big things is that rogues don't want to give up any damage (by using non-damage-increasing jewels) in order to increase survivability, since they have never needed to in the past.

The reduction in armour may just force people to look at other options, causing variety in jewel usage, helping the economy and adding interest in the game overall. With jewels removable, it makes testing multiple configurations possible like it never was before.

Personally, I applaud STS for standing their ground for the time being, and look forward to the potentials this change brings. It's the most interesting change in years and now I finally look forward to levelling so I can test this stuff out.

[Right]

Im fine with rogues armor. just fix stun locks to death combo with arc sword, thats more imba. imo.

Nice to see a rouge that agrees with the balance changes and is fine with it but the arc sword is fine as it is you too can stun and combo so whats the problem?