I think Sorcerers Are Useless in PvE...

[Zeus]

anyway, what i was saying is, tanks with aegis needs them (and only them) to burn enemies under magma's buff, to help them proc aegis, but if you have sorcerer in your team, he/she will usually dominate with dot, and ends up making the sorcerer burns all the enemies. the mechanic of magma is, one enemy can only get burned by one player at one time, it's non-stackable between players, making the buff grow more useless in party.

That's interesting, didn't know that.

[Ravager]

It's the beginning of the season and the beginning release of level 61 based elites. These are the times when tanks are wanted the most and this always happens beginning of elite releases. By end of season it'll be 4 rogues or blends of classes. Who knows? Maybe the 56 end of season gear will be so good that mages will be able to use 4 attack skills for timed runs and that would probably make the difference.

[Deathlyreaper]

I hope new skills will balance it out..
Sorcerers are not useless-
If u have played elite underhul then u must have noticed the insane dot applied by red globs of light (unstable cryogems) as far as i know only a charged sorc shield is able to completely banish the dot (nekro shield did not remove it)
The dot chains to nearby allies so the dot can be given to a mage and he can banish it.. The dot also causes slows movement..
Moreover clock mastery is op against beetle and worm mobs.. A charged fireball stuns elite orcs in underhul
New elites still have bugs like infinite health of a mob (no green cryogem in proximity still mob heals) so wait for STG to eliminate the bugs.. Then it would be fair to judge a 22 seconds difference

The dot can be erased by Gale mastery

[Zeazimeh]

The dot can be erased by Gale mastery

Yes.. But its still a sorcerer thing..

[eugene9707]

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class! And yes, aegis + magma is GG for any sorcerer. A sorcerer will not speed up the run or lessen the amount of deaths.

I'll second this.... always wondered why there is a max target amount for aoe skills.......

[Fyrce]

He is just saying if you can kill more quickly, you do not need cc as much. And his testing confirms this. Warrior w/ rogue kill faster w/ a minimum of death vs including a mage. I do think most non-rec parties can still use a mage, so I am not sure this will be a huge problem. It all comes down to the player base.

i would love to see more effective mage AoEs.

[Niixed]

Have to agree with what Zeus is saying here. Timed runs are a good way to measure the overall PvE balance between the classes, similar to a stress-test on a product. I'm sorry to say that warriors are currently too overpowered with the combination of the Aegis and the Dragon Sword.

Since weapons are constantly changing (aka a variable), game balance should not be tied to weapons. Game balance should be more dependent on player decisions. Using weapons to balance the game is far too developer-dependent. We are forced to rely on the developer for balance instead of finding it on our own or working to make it so. Imagine a world where we didn't have to come charging to the forums for a nerf/buff every time a weapon is released. After a few years of going through this process myself, it really does become tiresome.

I think what's missing most in weapon and gear design in Arcane Legends is this principle: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Often weapons for one class take away from another class, such as the case of the Aegis, because they too-closely mimic the skills of that class. Remember the Elon Bulwark could curse better than a sorcerer? But, then again, how are developers supposed to imagine every single possible outcome of every piece of gear they release? They can't, nobody can without a massive, inefficient expenditure of resources.

I believe one (radical?) solution to the balance problem is to make class-versions of every skill available to every other class, but it would cost more skill points than a regular skill. For example, sorcerers could put skill points into a sorcerer version of aimed shot. Rogues could use a rogue-ized version of skyward smash. Warriors could use the a tanky version of frost bolt. This would give players significantly more build possibilities and would make game balance more player-dependent. If STS releases a weapon for one class that is too op, players would have access to more skills to possibly compensate for it.

Regardless, I think the current system is just too constrained for players to be able to compensate for big changes. That is one a big reason why we rush to the forums, spending our valuable game time crying about this or that.

[tomsawer]

Imo as stated by Zeus. before this season gets to far along ,devs need to find away for Each class to be needed, I for one would like to beable to play each class providing a role in a party. As of now in (pve) I only Play rogue and warrior simply because ( my mage isn't effective in elites) .
I made a comment sometime back when devs were asking what changes we as players would like to see change, my comment was .simple ," make each class desirable to play and a role so a minimum of 1 of each class is needed in a party to successfully complete elites"


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[aneshsinghblu]

Hello,

From what I've noticed and in my testings, sorcerers are now not very effective in PvE. The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not. When I ran the new elites, I was 22 seconds faster on my first try just by switching a very skilled sorcerer (Papalix) to another rogue. So, the party went from 1 tank 2 rogues 1 sorcerer to 1 tank 3 rogues. I, and many others, would really like for all classes to have a use without compromising each other's roles.

Please note, that these are record runs. These runs show how efficient each class is and right now, sorcerer is just not efficient in anything except crypt related maps.

in the past seasons I've not seen any warriors on the leader board. . . let them shine for a bit. . or even this whole season.
a war helped you to get onto the new elite lb. . yet you ask for them to be nerfed(aegis nerf)
"efficient" run to me does not mean the fastest run. . but the run I die the least

[Zeus]

in the past seasons I've not seen any warriors on the leader board. . . let them shine for a bit. . or even this whole season.
a war helped you to get onto the new elite lb. . yet you ask for them to be nerfed(aegis nerf)
"efficient" run to me does not mean the fastest run. . but the run I die the least

I'm not asking for warrior nerf, I love the fact that they can run timed runs now, however, I do think that sorcerers shouldn't be excluded from timed runs either. The most efficient run would also be the fastest run for you then: take a look at pure LB maps. It's 2 tanks, 1 rogue or 2 tanks, 2 rogue.

[xRyuzanki]

I hope stg will buff Mages aoe abilities and armor!

[Iove]

Zeus correct, im mage and i check it, mage bad and paper, i know got shield, but it end, remember it.

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[Kriticality]

I'm sorry but no class should be able to output more damage to multiple targets than a Mage. If I don't have the highest, I'm certainly up there for pure damage. Even with 10/10 mastery wth light it doesn't compare to rogue at the boss. I switch between staves and then ofc to gun at boss. With 1306 PURE DAMAGE and almost 1500 damage with elixir and supposed to be aoe class no 300k weapon and magma should put out more damage than me. Look at this photo of this new staff. CLEAN. Look at my dps. I'm pushing 2k dps.

I actually very much enjoy the support role of Mage in a clash and think I'm pretty good at it. But if I choose to noble exquisite my gear to insane stat values, I expect it to be for a purpose. At 1300 + pure damage without even the best damage gear, no class through any combination whatsoever should be putting out more aoe damage than Mage.

I say this all the time. Only thing Mage best at is mana. It's a joke. This testing in pvp is cool with all the 50% nerf. Mage and shield in particular are amazing. But these defensive skills will not be used in timed runs. They cannot be. So Idc about shield absorption mastery and other things. This is why I strive to balance my Mage. Keep over 200 str for shield in pvp and ALSO maximize my damage for timed runs. Maybe some people have more damage but not many. Crowd control isn't good enough role. You buff taunt on tank and they have aegis and they don't die easily. Is clock better? Even with 1500 damage with elixir than a aegis magma combo? Emphatically the answer is no.

So while it may feel cool to some mages that feel useful bc they can drop a clock and throw a fb, just know that your job is easily covered by other classes. They can do it better.




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[Deathlyreaper]

I'm sorry but no class should be able to output more damage to multiple targets than a Mage. If I don't have the highest, I'm certainly up there for pure damage. Even with 10/10 mastery wth light it doesn't compare to rogue at the boss. I switch between staves and then ofc to gun at boss. With 1306 PURE DAMAGE and almost 1500 damage with elixir and supposed to be aoe class no 300k weapon and magma should put out more damage than me. Look at this photo of this new staff. CLEAN. Look at my dps. I'm pushing 2k dps.

I actually very much enjoy the support role of Mage in a clash and think I'm pretty good at it. But if I choose to noble exquisite my gear to insane stat values, I expect it to be for a purpose. At 1300 + pure damage without even the best damage gear, no class through any combination whatsoever should be putting out more aoe damage than Mage.

I say this all the time. Only thing Mage best at is mana. It's a joke. This testing in pvp is cool with all the 50% nerf. Mage and shield in particular are amazing. But these defensive skills will not be used in timed runs. They cannot be. So Idc about shield absorption mastery and other things. This is why I strive to balance my Mage. Keep over 200 str for shield in pvp and ALSO maximize my damage for timed runs. Maybe some people have more damage but not many. Crowd control isn't good enough role. You buff taunt on tank and they have aegis and they don't die easily. Is clock better? Even with 1500 damage with elixir than a aegis magma combo? Emphatically the answer is no.

So while it may feel cool to some mages that feel useful bc they can drop a clock and throw a fb, just know that your job is easily covered by other classes. They can do it better.




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I agree with you and dang bro is your stats with elixir or without? That is some pretty op stats would u mind if I asked what your equipments are? And possible the type of jewel u use?

[Deathlyreaper]

Yes I agree do not put limitations on number of target that we can hit

[Zeus]

I'm sorry but no class should be able to output more damage to multiple targets than a Mage. If I don't have the highest, I'm certainly up there for pure damage. Even with 10/10 mastery wth light it doesn't compare to rogue at the boss. I switch between staves and then ofc to gun at boss. With 1306 PURE DAMAGE and almost 1500 damage with elixir and supposed to be aoe class no 300k weapon and magma should put out more damage than me. Look at this photo of this new staff. CLEAN. Look at my dps. I'm pushing 2k dps.

I actually very much enjoy the support role of Mage in a clash and think I'm pretty good at it. But if I choose to noble exquisite my gear to insane stat values, I expect it to be for a purpose. At 1300 + pure damage without even the best damage gear, no class through any combination whatsoever should be putting out more aoe damage than Mage.

I say this all the time. Only thing Mage best at is mana. It's a joke. This testing in pvp is cool with all the 50% nerf. Mage and shield in particular are amazing. But these defensive skills will not be used in timed runs. They cannot be. So Idc about shield absorption mastery and other things. This is why I strive to balance my Mage. Keep over 200 str for shield in pvp and ALSO maximize my damage for timed runs. Maybe some people have more damage but not many. Crowd control isn't good enough role. You buff taunt on tank and they have aegis and they don't die easily. Is clock better? Even with 1500 damage with elixir than a aegis magma combo? Emphatically the answer is no.

So while it may feel cool to some mages that feel useful bc they can drop a clock and throw a fb, just know that your job is easily covered by other classes. They can do it better.




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Agreed, sorcerers may be quite powerful in PvP but in PvE right now, tanks do the job better. Now please note, I am not asking for a tank nerf...I would just like sorcerers to be able to join in on the fun of timed runs.

[Kriticality]

I agree with you and dang bro is your stats with elixir or without? That is some pretty op stats would u mind if I asked what your equipments are? And possible the type of jewel u use?

I use the fame... The glory... Hahahaha


Yes I'll talk to you about it in pm. My staff build more crit 6200 health but less damage. Gun for pure damage atm. At 40% crit being around 1 in every 2.5 attacks and ~30% crit being around 1 in every 3 attack a crit, the damage seems to help without much crit loss for dot. Just pm me if I can help. I'm happy to if I can. But let's not back and forth in the thread.

[Kaziscate]

I've run with a few different mages, the mage is slower every time. Papalix also has every mage weapon out there...


Here's why:

1. The maps are designed to take out specific mobs first - a rogue's job.
2. The Aegis outputs way too much AOE damage - a sorcerer's job.

There should be a balance where tank is needed but it's not taking over another classes's role. I can run 9 minutes or less in second underhul map with 3 rogues and 1 tank, but any mage will only do higher 9s or 10 mins.

I feel like it's too focused on the aegis. What if the tank didn't have an aegis? Mages can exceed tanks without aegis in AoEing, but I do have to agree with it being unnecessary to have a mob cap for mage skills. Also if this isn't massive damage,then idk what is.

[Tatman]

You keep bringing this timed runs logic. This game isn't timed runs. 90% of endgamers - and that's a conservative number - don't even care about timed runs. Do that experiment I suggested. Find a couple random, average geared people, and run with them. On top of everything else, you will make them happy. Woo I ran with Zeus yay yah woohoo.

[Kharjojo]

Paper isn't fine anymore
Joking apart, don't want to quote Papa's post cause it hurts a lot.
We're struggling to jewel the best we can our gear, do the math to be the most effective we can in pve, as mages should be, but the sad truth is we're still useful but not so much, even with op stats.
This remind me the days of the planar tombs..when did the mages shines ? During the freeze bolt glitch :/