PvP Balance Adjustments and PvP Tiers

[diexdie]

:v

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[putter]

Level 16 can never win level 20 clash. Neither can level 10 win level 15. If they have same gear or the higher levels even less expensive gear they would also win. At twinks 1 level is already a big difference. Maybe it's better to nerf between 15-19 and the maps level can change by 3 levels so you can still have like a 15-17 map with the same nerfs as a 17-19 map has

[Upperbound]

Why cant we have old +/-2 levels system and damage nerf based on player level or at least on average player level in the map, or something like that?

[Donquixoth]

Nowadays, twink becoming more quite than 1 year ago. IMO, this is great idea.

[Vvards]

Don't fix what ain't broken!!!

[Cinco]

Yeah - the old system had some really cool aspects. I'm proud of that design 'cause it did a great job of matchmaking AL's early (very small) PVP community. And honestly, back in the beginning we didn't put an emphasis on PVP balance. Throwing characters at any level against characters at any two levels above or below was just fine. Today, with a desire to achieve balanced fights in our PVP arenas, the flaws of the original system are presenting challenges that make it excessively difficult to manage. Especially considering how big the advancement game has become and how vast the equipment offerings have grown. So, I assert that adding more complexity to the old system would move us in the wrong direction.

It is true that the new system puts pressure on competitors to advance to the top of each numerical Tier. From a game design perspective, this is cool because it ensures that we can achieve an exciting and competitive balance for these Tiers. Balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty-six individual levels within a margin of two levels above and below.

Now: could I have told everybody about these Tier plans before they were implemented? Yup. That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/
But that reminds me... I need to post in the Pet Forum to break the news about the unbelievably powerful pet power swapping system and the upcoming Arcane Ability combo system. These will have an impressive effect on everything PVE, PVP and their respective economies.

[epicrrr]

Yeah - the old system had some really cool aspects. I'm proud of that design 'cause it did a great job of matchmaking AL's early (very small) PVP community. And honestly, back in the beginning we didn't put an emphasis on PVP balance. Throwing characters at any level against characters at any two levels above or below was just fine. Today, with a desire to achieve balanced fights in our PVP arenas, the flaws of the original system are presenting challenges that make it excessively difficult to manage. Especially considering how big the advancement game has become and how vast the equipment offerings have grown. So, I assert that adding more complexity to the old system would move us in the wrong direction.

It is true that the new system puts pressure on competitors to advance to the top of each numerical Tier. From a game design perspective, this is cool because it ensures that we can achieve an exciting and competitive balance for these Tiers. Balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty-six individual levels within a margin of two levels above and below.

Now: could I have told everybody about these Tier plans before they were implemented? Yup. That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/
But that reminds me... I need to post in the Pet Forum to break the news about the unbelievably powerful pet power swapping system and the upcoming Arcane Ability combo system. These will have an impressive effect on everything PVE, PVP and their respective economies.

YAY

*We are changing and AL PVP (low end) is becoming complex i think i like this Tier system if everyone just go the max level per tier or the level before it, would be easier to launch pvp tourneys and manage future events (guild war, castle siege, 10v10 arenas(full of hope)) cause there will be a good number of players to participate and the community will be easier to monitor;

NAY

*Item scarcity and possible massive para item value fluctuation (complex-anger-management-required-scenario)

[Lawpvp]

Yeah - the old system had some really cool aspects. I'm proud of that design 'cause it did a great job of matchmaking AL's early (very small) PVP community. And honestly, back in the beginning we didn't put an emphasis on PVP balance. Throwing characters at any level against characters at any two levels above or below was just fine. Today, with a desire to achieve balanced fights in our PVP arenas, the flaws of the original system are presenting challenges that make it excessively difficult to manage. Especially considering how big the advancement game has become and how vast the equipment offerings have grown. So, I assert that adding more complexity to the old system would move us in the wrong direction.

It is true that the new system puts pressure on competitors to advance to the top of each numerical Tier. From a game design perspective, this is cool because it ensures that we can achieve an exciting and competitive balance for these Tiers. Balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty-six individual levels within a margin of two levels above and below.

Now: could I have told everybody about these Tier plans before they were implemented? Yup. That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/
But that reminds me... I need to post in the Pet Forum to break the news about the unbelievably powerful pet power swapping system and the upcoming Arcane Ability combo system. These will have an impressive effect on everything PVE, PVP and their respective economies.

tbh i dont think there is any flaw in fighting people 2 levels below or above. Changing maps to have 5 different levels would exponentiate any existing flaws in balance. Heres some proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fTkrb5NHUI 5 lvl 17s vs 5 lvl 19s with sns....the 17s won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQZwfREoKA 3-4 lvl 17s(we were blocked at start) beating 4 18-19s 5-6 times in a row

while moving everybody to the top of tiers would in theory make it more competitive because people are being funneled into 1-2 levels per tier, i dont think that logistically it will be feasible. There is a scarcity of the best items at lvl 15 as is. If everyone from 11-15 all moves to 15, there will not be enough gear for everyone and those with the best items will have a profound advantage over those who have only been able to find 1-2 strong items instead of a full set. So balance isnt really achieved.

That being said, entirely agree with you balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty six individual levels. But i maintain that using 10 tiers for establishing the percentages on damage and healing nerfs could create balance across any combination on 3 lvls, 15-17, 13-15, 10-12, etc. As ive shown in the above urls, a full team of 17s could beat a full team of 19s, if we were to face lvl 20s? nuh uh.

What I think would be best for making players happy and the developers lives easier is a tier system for establishing the damage and healing nerfs but leave the old matchmaking system as it was. Would it be possible to have tiers of nerfs that dont impact the matchmaking? so even though level 14s may have smaller nerfs than lvl 16s, they can still end up in a match together? This is the compromise that I think would benefit everyone.

[Justg]

There is a scarcity of the best items at lvl 15 as is. If everyone from 11-15 all moves to 15, there will not be enough gear for everyone and those with the best items will have a profound advantage over those who have only been able to find 1-2 strong items instead of a full set.

We'll see how this all shakes out, but we are very open to introducing new gear (and bringing back some old stuff) to equip these tiers.

[kinzmet]

Dear Sir Cinco,

I have to admit, what I feel inlove in AL was the twinking PVP system. If you have design that then my hats off to you
I do agree with the new design you did, the bracket system. But the disarray was on levels in-between the brackets caps.
Also you didn't give us a chance to know something that would change our twinking drastically, you hit a lot of spots that
would shake our silent peace in the twinking world.

You said you could have told us about the tier plans in advance, but failed to do so. If you sincerly sorry, then accept the
responsibility about it

That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/

I propose, that you would help us "adjust" our levels. Like level11 that wanted to be L10, or L16 that wanted to be L15, or
L18 who wanted to be L15 etc etc. When I said help, not just de-leveling the toons but also de-leveling the gears with the
gems/jewels intact.

If this compromise would be agreed, then there will be no distress in forums and in-game about a radical change that was
implemented out-of-the-blue.

Again, my hats off to you and the design team! This change was needed and I hoped for more interresting things from you guys!




Respectfully,
-kinzmet

[Cinco]

I agree w/ G. The most exciting and interesting thing - which would also help assure good, balanced fights in PVP tiers - would be the introduction of new powerful stuff for these lower levels.

[Upperbound]

If we stay with the new system, it would be really fair option to be able delevel or level up to the closest tier with current gear and pets delevelled too. Personally, I've spent like 10-15m on my 16 level gear recently and with the new system it will be useless.

[Upperbound]

BTW, I like the idea when all people fight on the same balanced level: 10, 15, 20 and so on, but you should do something for currently geared mid-tier guys like me: 11, 13, 16, 17 and so on. Otherwise the will be unbalanced comparing to currently geared top-tiers.

[Lawpvp]

We'll see how this all shakes out, but we are very open to introducing new gear (and bringing back some old stuff) to equip these tiers.

I agree w/ G. The most exciting and interesting thing - which would also help assure good, balanced fights in PVP tiers - would be the introduction of new powerful stuff for these lower levels.

Except there is no reason to do this in the first place considering nobody complained the old system anyways. Implement the tiers for damage and healing nerfs and leave the old matchmaking as it was. Would anybody complain about this? No. Easier for devs to balance fewer tiers, players are still happy, everyone wins

[worshiped]

My question is how much longer we will have to deal with this tier system, give us a certain time you have thought for this until you change back, just this weekend or 1 week?

[Justg]

My question is how much longer we will have to deal with this tier system, give us a certain time you have thought for this until you change back, just this weekend or 1 week?

We're gathering feedback and data while you play over the weekend and will reconvene as a dev team on Monday to discuss it.

I'll keep the thread clear of threats to quit, sweeping generalities, or claims to speak for everyone so we can maintain a collaborative environment.

Thanks for the valuable data and thoughts.

- g

[Twerk]

Please tell me how can 16lv will win 18-20lv?

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If I could win versus fights with 19lvls as 17lvl -> I don't see the problem of 16lvl facing 18lvl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuoIM8X0so < 17 and 1 18lv versus team full of 19lvls

The problem is that 16lvls are always excusing and crying over fights and clashes versus levels higher than them. What is the point?

[XxpuretankxX]

i saw no problems with pvp before, just sts shouldve never of taken rogue armor away. and im a warrior saying that rogues were not overpowered, tanks could kill rogues and the other way around and same with mages. now im at level 10 with rogues who can crit a tank to 50% in one combo, which never has happened before no matter how many para or eye. and being a level10 i have the uperhand over the other levels in my tier which seems fine but i feel bad clashing agaisnt 6-7 with a 10 team i think its unfair. pvp was perfectly fine fine before the nerfs and balances sure there was apparently problems at endgame but twink seemed fine and very balanced.

[Niixed]

I think this change is wonderful, I really love the idea because it will guarantee plenty of activity at each bracket and eliminate many other problems that cause drama.

My problem with this change is that the 25-30 million gold I've invested in my two 23 twinks will be destroyed. I have a paras, eyes, grand tarloks and grand reinforced gear. The demand for level 25 gear will skyrocket omg. I truly hope you give us the option of upgrading our gear to 25 (or the highest level of whichever tier we are now members of) while NOT destroying the precious gems. That would make the transition much easier and the pvp community would be very grateful.

[additions]

How does lvl8 win over lvl10 with different jewels attached to their gears and the skills theyre using...very perfect idea lol