Hey Rogues, What's Missing???

[konafez]

I think sts should get someone to test the items, bufs/nerfs , pets, weapons before they are released for mass consumption

But this persons one job is to find every devious and maniacal use that someone could put these things to

Someone dark and evil, someone who can sit brooding in his evil stronghold petting a fluffy white cat and trying to put laser beams on sharks

Someone who sniffs glue and has the scalp of every girl he ever dated in his basement

Someone like vroom

Someone that can find the issues when people stack teams or block or stack pets or any other devious use a item/nerf/buff/pet can be put to

(Just kidding vroom...........I don't think you sniff glue)

P.s. anyone but seo ..seo is about as maniacal as a box of kittens

[Ireliaa]

JS i'm happy.

If rogues are given anymore power, it becomes rogue legends again. I am completely happy from a rogues stand point.

thats on pve perspective only;
rogue has no palce in pvp
pve people are the only ones that are happy

[Avaree]

JS i'm happy.

If rogues are given anymore power, it becomes rogue legends again. I am completely happy from a rogues stand point.

thats on pve perspective only;
rogue has no palce in pvp
pve people are the only ones that are happy

I do think the dev team is taking notes, this is why this thread is here. They are committed to fixing whats broken. They need to hear constructive feed back from both types of environmental players.

[Ireliaa]

I do think the dev team is taking notes, this is why this thread is here. They are committed to fixing whats broken. They need to hear constructive feed back from both types of environmental players.

im not trying to argue , just a friendly advice, just test yourself in pvp environment before coming to conculusion of rogue is perfectly fine

[Deathclaw]

Rouges are still the best at timed runs, boss kills, 1vs1 what more do you want ?

[Avaree]

JS i'm happy.

If rogues are given anymore power, it becomes rogue legends again. I am completely happy from a rogues stand point.

thats on pve perspective only;
rogue has no palce in pvp
pve people are the only ones that are happy

I do think the dev team is taking notes, this is why this thread is here. They are committed to fixing whats broken. They need to hear constructive feed back from both types of environmental players.

im not trying to argue , just a friendly advice, just test yourself in pvp environment before coming to conculusion of rogue is perfectly fine

Re-read what I wrote above... Please dont jump to conclusions (based on my happiness) that I think rogues are perfectly fine.

As far as pvp goes, I did pvp after the hotfix. I am not a frequent flyer there, so I cannot give an experienced opinion.

[intrepd]

I have no issues with the rogue as it is in PvE. With the Aimed Shot re-adjusted to around its original power, I can resume my role as a single target DPS fairly well again.

In PvP, 1v1 I'm really lousy at, but I do tend to win vs mages more than I do vs tanks. I will skip the discussion about 1v1 vs a tank at endgame. For a team vs team clash, previous posters brought up the lack of viability of including rogues in clashes, especially if the opposing team is filled with mages and tanks. Why is that?

- rogues cannot overcome a tank stack: rogues do not have a shield that provides invulnerability or a skill that markedly reduces incoming damage. This means that with more mages and tanks on the opposing side, there are less targets with a wide open window of vulnerability

- It is difficult to kill a tank quickly in a clash, no matter what other people may say. With Nekro/Jugg/HoR/feeble there is a very small window where your skills can hit hard enough to bring a tank down. With increasing numbers of tanks in the team the window gets even small because the tanks can cover each other well with enough skill and practice. Rogues cannot overcome this, and will eventually die because they run out of mana or get sucked into multiple axes. And I haven't even talked about the lava proc of the Arc sword.

- Mages can partially counter a tank stack because they have two things: mana heal and a shield that provides invulnerability and potentially absorbs a lot of damage. This also means that they have a small window of weakness, though during this window they are extremely vulnerable and will die very easily. They also have Fireball which on good timing can stun a tank and widen the window of vulnerability of a tank enough to nuke him and bring him down.

In order to bring back the rogue as a relevant member of the party, there must be either an incentive for more rogues to play, or there must be a disincentive for class stacking in teams. There is no incentive for more than one rogue per team at the moment because apart from high damage (which is nowadays easily countered by Jugg/Mage shield/Horn of Renew/feeble skills), rogues bring little else to the table. Buffing rogues in order to provide an incentive would be a huge mistake as it would unbalance PvE which as I have stated above is in a happy equilibrium currently.

So the best option would be disincentivizing stacking of multiple toons of a single class in a team. How would this work? My proposal involves weakening of a specific stat associated with the specific class, if there is more than one toon of that class in a team. I could give examples. For instance:
- more than one rogue in team: crit reduction by 5% per teammate for each additional rogue in the team.
- more than one mage in team: damage reduction of 5% for each additional mage in the team
- more than one tank in team: armor reduction of 5% for each member of the team

Note that these are examples. I have no way of telling you if a 5% damage reduction is as disabling as a 5% armor reduction. However, my idea was to take the most prominent stat of a stackable class, and nerf it across the team such that the entire team would suffer because they chose to stack tanks/mages/rogues. For instance, since tank stacks are notoriously hard to bring down, nerfing the armor of the team would make the whole team die a lot faster and discourage the idea of tank stacking to preserve the team's armor.

This is just one idea I have, and I'm sure it's not perfect, nor will it be universally received. I would like to hear your views as well as alternative suggestions as to how to reduce class stacking in PvP and making it more friendly to rogues.

To be honest i'd say that rogues dont need more armor or damage but there must be a class restriction in PVP
for example CTF only 2 per class, tdm is like if there is 2 tanks then the rest 2 must be a rogue and mage, only 2 with the same class and rest are different for tdm, just to make rogues helpful again in clashes.

class restriction would be the best idea since mage stack is real now in PVP.

[Zylx]

In the past few years, ive noticed with any issue, it only takes one carefully-worded piece of feedback from a well known member of the community and then players who have no idea what is decide to conform to the curve without testing for themselves.

There was a behavioral experiment once conducted by a group of scientists. 5 monkeys were placed in a large cage, with a ladder placed in the middle and some bananas placed on top of the ladder. Each time a monkey climbed the ladder, the scientists would spray the other monkeys with cold water. Eventually, if a monkey climbed the ladder to get to the bananas, the others would attack the monkey. After a while, the monkeys did not climb the ladder despite this temptation.

The scientists then replaced one of the monkeys with a different monkey, and that monkey climbed the ladder and got attacked. One by one, the other monkeys were replaced by new monkeys, and they kept getting attacked by the rest of them. The monkeys that replaced the old group partook in the beatings as well, even though none of them were sprayed with water.

People tend to naturally conform with others despite their lack of knowledge with the situations. Most of these people who are complaining have no clue what they are talking about, and are basing their conclusions on other people's statements whom also have no idea what they are talking about.

Whether something is good or bad, it's all relative. If you get people who never paid attention to detail, they wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

[Kingofninjas]

Simply limit ctf to no more than 2 of a class per team. Anything else will have too many unintended side effects. I do not know what can be done about tdm, but rogues are much better off there than in ctf.

[Universalpro]

I m not aware about the hot fix and i m not really a person who understands detailed technical points
But i can say this, i pvped before event and i didnt pvp during the event and i just pvped now and in all honesty rogues do appear to be useless now, especially in clashes if they v/s warr/mage stacks
Idk what has changed but i liked it before, it was balanced it is far too easy to kill rogues now

As for pve, it seems more balanced now

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Croak]

Bluntly put, most here have the "monkey see, monkey do" syndrome?

In the past few years, ive noticed with any issue, it only takes one carefully-worded piece of feedback from a well known member of the community and then players who have no idea what is decide to conform to the curve without testing for themselves.

There was a behavioral experiment once conducted by a group of scientists. 5 monkeys were placed in a large cage, with a ladder placed in the middle and some bananas placed on top of the ladder. Each time a monkey climbed the ladder, the scientists would spray the other monkeys with cold water. Eventually, if a monkey climbed the ladder to get to the bananas, the others would attack the monkey. After a while, the monkeys did not climb the ladder despite this temptation.

The scientists then replaced one of the monkeys with a different monkey, and that monkey climbed the ladder and got attacked. One by one, the other monkeys were replaced by new monkeys, and they kept getting attacked by the rest of them. The monkeys that replaced the old group partook in the beatings as well, even though none of them were sprayed with water.

People tend to naturally conform with others despite their lack of knowledge with the situations. Most of these people who are complaining have no clue what they are talking about, and are basing their conclusions on other people's statements whom also have no idea what they are talking about.

Whether something is good or bad, it's all relative. If you get people who never paid attention to detail, they wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

[Terminhater]

Rogues r aight in PvE, it's just a PvP thang.

Mebeh when rogue enters PvP it gets buffed to compete, but only in PvP.

[Ireliaa]

In the past few years, ive noticed with any issue, it only takes one carefully-worded piece of feedback from a well known member of the community and then players who have no idea what is decide to conform to the curve without testing for themselves.

There was a behavioral experiment once conducted by a group of scientists. 5 monkeys were placed in a large cage, with a ladder placed in the middle and some bananas placed on top of the ladder. Each time a monkey climbed the ladder, the scientists would spray the other monkeys with cold water. Eventually, if a monkey climbed the ladder to get to the bananas, the others would attack the monkey. After a while, the monkeys did not climb the ladder despite this temptation.

The scientists then replaced one of the monkeys with a different monkey, and that monkey climbed the ladder and got attacked. One by one, the other monkeys were replaced by new monkeys, and they kept getting attacked by the rest of them. The monkeys that replaced the old group partook in the beatings as well, even though none of them were sprayed with water.

People tend to naturally conform with others despite their lack of knowledge with the situations. Most of these people who are complaining have no clue what they are talking about, and are basing their conclusions on other people's statements whom also have no idea what they are talking about.

Whether something is good or bad, it's all relative. If you get people who never paid attention to detail, they wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

who are you throwing the stones at be more spesific, there are facts, not blind following and its been going on for a while. Assuming peoples experience from forum green bars is just plain bias

its a fact that on pvp mage and warr stacking ruling the game and team with rogue almost certainly losing, except the other team have no idea what they are doing. You dont need 70k kills for that just hop on some matches and you will find out soon enough
there is an issue this season with clash team balance and its pretty known for a while

only problem here is mages and warriors involving and saying they are fine or too OP etc. they may be the ones who that have no idea what they are talking about, they are the ones whos thanking aim shot nerfs etc

[Ireliaa]

Rogues damage output has notthing to do with the trouble they have finding a spot in organised clashes. There was quite a long post by safiras(on some or the other thread) about this.

Reinstating AS to the nuke status it was before wouldn't have solved the issues rogue have in PvP.

I agree, issue is the survivability of other 2 clases imo.(when stacked or combined together) One shot kill a mage means one shot kill a rogue also and its not fun its ping war. I can only report and issue i am not eligable to advise because i cant take the responsibility of outcome
but a test server would be nice for it to balance things out wihout drama

[Lunarpvp]

I think sts should get someone to test the items, bufs/nerfs , pets, weapons before they are released for mass consumption

But this persons one job is to find every devious and maniacal use that someone could put these things to

Someone dark and evil, someone who can sit brooding in his evil stronghold petting a fluffy white cat and trying to put laser beams on sharks

Someone who sniffs glue and has the scalp of every girl he ever dated in his basement

Someone like vroom

Someone that can find the issues when people stack teams or block or stack pets or any other devious use a item/nerf/buff/pet can be put to

(Just kidding vroom...........I don't think you sniff glue)

P.s. anyone but seo ..seo is about as maniacal as a box of kittens

I vote Gary. Revenge of the rogues

[Tapash Bose]

This is from pve perspective...
I am not a very op rogue but i feel in tougher elites(underhul 2 and 3) I am useless wo the proc of the arcane sword ..If the arcane sword does not proc I m dead
Nothing with skill...its solely the proc ,,any of my skill cannot stun the mobs
As I said I may be wrong and if I am the only one feeling like this then please ignore the next part
But if majority feels the same then truly brainstorming needs to me done how to get out from the proc dependability...
Unless there is a true way of survival (for rogue even if for a short period of time to deal the expected damage) based on your stats and your skill wo the help of proc..dont think any class balance can ever be reached ...procs should be there to help like the good old frost bow or elon bow...or even the glintstone bows...but should not be so powerful that my entire survivability depends on it...

[Zylx]

who are you throwing the stones at be more spesific, there are facts, not blind following and its been going on for a while. Assuming peoples experience from forum green bars is just plain bias

its a fact that on pvp mage and warr stacking ruling the game and team with rogue almost certainly losing, except the other team have no idea what they are doing. You dont need 70k kills for that just hop on some matches and you will find out soon enough
there is an issue this season with clash team balance and its pretty known for a while

only problem here is mages and warriors involving and saying they are fine or too OP etc. they may be the ones who that have no idea what they are talking about, they are the ones whos thanking aim shot nerfs etc

Im not throwing stones at anyone specifically. Im just stating a basic psychological tendency that people naturally have that clearly takes place on the forums when something changes. At this point, i believe the hype over this issue supercedes the actual issue itself, considering the people who blatantly insulted and raged over spacetime's decision and against the players who opposed this overblown situation and toxic attitude.

[Ireliaa]

Im not throwing stones at anyone specifically. Im just stating a basic psychological tendency that people naturally have that clearly takes place on the forums when something changes. At this point, i believe the hype over this issue supercedes the actual issue itself, considering the people who blatantly insulted and raged over spacetime's decision and against the players who opposed this overblown situation and toxic attitude.

well then the aim was nerfed it wasnt certain it will revert and get fix like this and compensation also wasnt certain. People who play rogues got emotional because it seemed like rogue class was dying

it wasnt following someone, everyone was against and shocked, ofc people rant because many had already enough with nerf stuff on their class and how can you appreciate a change like that after all that, a change like that was indeed requiring an armor for the devs

please dont assume people are like sheep or "monkey" that they only follows someone known, thats a bit of insult. Everyone has a right to express their feelings and thoughts as well as well as like or agree on others opinions

that agreeing thanks generally because someone wrties the thing first that many other had in their minds but couldnt put it well.

[Zylx]

well then the aim was nerfed it wasnt certain it will revert and get fix like this and compensation also wasnt certain. People who play rogues got emotional because it seemed like rogue class was dying

it wasnt following someone, everyone was against and shocked, ofc people rant because many had already enough with nerf stuff on their class and how can you appreciate a change like that after all that, a change like that was indeed requiring an armor for the devs

please dont assume people are like sheep or "monkey" that they only follows someone known, thats a bit of insult. Everyone has a right to express their feelings and thoughts as well as well as like or agree on others opinions

that agreeing thanks generally because someone wrties the thing first that many other had in their minds but couldnt put it well.

There might be some people who perceive the change as detrimental, but it is in no way justifiable with such an angry and insulting reaction. Im tired of all this toxicity that surmises with these kinds of situations.

Humans are genetically related to monkeys, which basically make them primitive humans. The conformist and brainwashed behavior that we naturally share today are entwined deep within our genes that go as far back as the monkeys. It's an instinct. Monkeys are actually really behaviorally intelligent.

There are some people who base their assumptions on personal experiments, then there are people who base their assumptions on numbers, and then there are people who base their assumptions on the feedback generated from other people because they are led to believe that there is an issue. Basically, we have leaders and we have followers. Its reality.

Again, this toxic behavior and hostility is downright ridiculus and blown out of proportion. This hype is bigger than the actual issue.

[Niixed]

Ok from what I'm reading:

1) Overall, Rogue players feel very strongly that Rogues are performing poorly in PvP.

• Rogues have no way of consistently overcoming the strengths of the other classes, regardless of the strategy employed
• Rogues no longer excell in 1v1 battles.
• Rogues are less useful in larger PvP battles
• Rogues are finding themselves significantly less valued as members of a PvP team
• The fun factor of playing a Rogue has taken a serious hit.

2) Overall, Rogue players feel PvE survivability could be modestly improved.

Am I accurate on this, or am I missing something else?