PvP Updates: Proposed Balance Changes (7/21/16)

[Anyona]

U obviously doing something wrong or the rouge u faced wasn't undergeared as u thought

Any rogue with the 56 arcanes take you down from 100-30 within a combo.


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[Horme]

Greetings Arlorians!

We've appreciated all feedback players have been posted after the corrections to Aimed Shot as well as the current state of Rogues in PvP. Due to the nature of the thread, we have taken another look at overall PvP balance based on the issues that players have brought up, and have found something we want to address.

Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

Proposed Changes:
1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.
3) The duration of the invulnerability upgrade on Horn of Renew will be reduced (in PvP only) from 2/3 seconds to 1/1.5 seconds.
4) Reduce the amount of Nekro's Arcane Ability Damage Reduction in PvP
5) Allow Juggernaut's upgrade to work even inside of a Korruption Pool (there's debate whether this is considered healing 'over time')


While this is our current plan, because of the nature of PvP, we are looking for feedback from the players on this. If the discussion goes well this will be released next Thursday's patch!

See you on Blood Beach,
-STSVroom

How do you considering damage reduction is the problem?, At lvl 15 mage shield broken easily by rogue aimed shot, and nekro rogue can,t be stunned. Rogue OP in pvp because they can use 3 damaging skill, warrior and mage maximum 2 dmaging skill, with rogue that can't be stunned during nekro ability they can spam everything before they get stunned. I'm talking from twink perspective.

[arcanefid]

Warrior armor is not even close to 4,000 by the way. Unless we go full Diamond jewels which isn't what warriors use.

[Zulgath]

It wasnt Rock Paper Scissors anymore lately

Mage>Rogue
Mage>Tank
Tank>Rogue

[foreveryoung]

Tank>mage
Mage>rogue
Rogue>tank

[Pedgon]

Greetings Arlorians!

We've appreciated all feedback players have been posted after the corrections to Aimed Shot as well as the current state of Rogues in PvP. Due to the nature of the thread, we have taken another look at overall PvP balance based on the issues that players have brought up, and have found something we want to address.

Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

Proposed Changes:
1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.
3) The duration of the invulnerability upgrade on Horn of Renew will be reduced (in PvP only) from 2/3 seconds to 1/1.5 seconds.
4) Reduce the amount of Nekro's Arcane Ability Damage Reduction in PvP
5) Allow Juggernaut's upgrade to work even inside of a Korruption Pool (there's debate whether this is considered healing 'over time')


While this is our current plan, because of the nature of PvP, we are looking for feedback from the players on this. If the discussion goes well this will be released next Thursday's patch!

See you on Blood Beach,
-STSVroom

I understand the examples, but saying that a rogue does 1000 base damage to a tank is non-sense, the example should be done with higher amount of base damage, coz that example isn't real..at all! Also, most of the warriors have 3k or less armor in PvP lol so...

1) Yes. But mages will complain...and a lot! lol There are many reasons why mages are better than rogues for clashes these days, this is definitely 1 of them. Mage it's just too good when "tanking", while with nek and arcane shield on lol And also for 1x1 between mage and tank, it's almost impossible for tank to break the cycle (heal, arc shiel, nek shield) lol
2) Yes. HP buff is not what makes Juggernaut effective, damage reduction combined with heals when below 40% is what matters to keep tank alive.
3) NO, JUST NO! Invulnerability is 3 sec right now in PvP, but it actually looks more like 2 sec, due the "delay" on 1st sec..so reducing it to 1/1.5 sec will create a problem on tank survivability; right now, we can heal..let's say..around 2k (1000x2) while with shield, if it gets nerfed, we will only heal 1 time before losing shield, and if low HP this is a problem in survivability. Also a problem when clashing for keeping team alive! When getting stunned (2-4 sec, depending on type of stun) this is, again, another issue, if shield goes away very fast..
4) NO. This will totally change PvP..especially clashes, for all classes! And it will likely "cancel" the effects of Global 50% nerf. Also...as a tank, and combining this topic with previous one, this is an even bigger problem for warrior survivability.
5) YES YES YES. I believe entire community agrees on this. lol

[Safiras]

Most of these changes are geared at making tanks and mages easier to kill. Most of us to be honest don't want that. We want a single clash to last longer, we want to be able to survive one combo and then be able to come back for more. Alot of times it comes down to one combo one kill. I'd like PvP to be more tactical and calculated than that. It's not that rogues can't kill tanks or mages. We can, but it's just that we die way too easily and we are heavily dependent on the other two classes to support us. If there was a way that rogues can support the other team in ways other than damage, or a way for rogues to temporarily and briefly survive a nuke from the other team, that might help things even up.

[Plqgue]

To those mentioning Nekro, we would be evaluating a reduction in the shield of Nekro's AA accordingly as part of this. I'll update my posts with that notion.

Pls don't destroy nekro in pve because of pvp

[jjperez27]

Nerf is not an answer!!
Give back the damaged,crit,armor of the rogue as well as the war heal and mage shield
That way pvp will be balanced and good!

[Nikool991]

If shields are going to be nerf you might aswell reduced the cooldown of those skills...because everybody knows mages are the most squishy class in this game..and if that shields poops too fast...its a 1 hit goodbye for mage..why not make mage more of a support class on pvp..so the rogues can still have the roles of dps in pvp

[Fredystern]

U can't be losing from war

Sure why not, if the warr just spamming lava and pull me to lava than i could die sooo fast, try to make yourself a mage and vs a war with arc sword 46 you'll know what i mean to

[Zeus]

Here's my points:

1. Entire reason rogue can survive even a little bit right now is due to Nekro shield. Developers need to test what happens to rogue when they do not have a Nekro shield. This is exactly what ends up happening in clash. You wait for the rogue's Nekro shield to go down, then you rush him or her and light him or her up.

2. Nerfs are not the answer. Buffs are. Nerfs make people want to quit because time invested in their character ends up being for nothing. This should have been realized when rogue armor was nerfed.

3. Increase rogue contribution to a team. It's abysmal, at best. That is what needs to be fixed and it needs to be done in a way that does not include nerfing the other classes.


Suggestions:

1. 50% damage reduction on razor shield
2. Increasing potency of Aimed Shot
3. Heavy armor increase (must combine with another suggestion, or it alone won't work)

If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to chime in.

[Zeus]

If shields are going to be nerf you might aswell reduced the cooldown of those skills...because everybody knows mages are the most squishy class in this game..and if that shields poops too fast...its a 1 hit goodbye for mage..why not make mage more of a support class on pvp..so the rogues can still have the roles of dps in pvp

Let's be realistic, sorcerers are not the squishiest class in the game. 2 years ago, that statement was true. Now, that statement is just made to garner sympathy for your class.

[Plqgue]

Very few mages have this insane damage you talking about. The prob with nerfing the whole class like nerfing aimshot is not what happens in max clash but what happens to all the rest of the mages in game. Mid and low level mages absolutely need damage and shield. If rogue can one or 2 combo me then any mid geared Mage will be crushed. And tbh, if I spent 200m on my Mage, I would hope to have some advantages over a rogue that paid 10m for pet and weapon and use some beetle gear. The other issue with these particular nerfs for Mage and warrior is a complete rework of jewels. Rogue can grab mm 6m compensate for armor loss. Give rogue damage and their armor back. But what's suggested here is nerfing mages and tanks class defining skill. Shield is mages aimed shot. Jugg is tanks aimed shot. Rogue was fine before damage nerf. Mage stack still strong but rogues had a place. This will promote more Mage stack. 2 or 3 mages throw shield up and destroy the rogue. Rogues are better 1 v 1 than Mage. Mages flourish more in the team environment. To make rogues more useful than mages in clash I would ask for mages to be more useful in duel than rogue. I've had several people pm me today rip mages. Even the rogues know this is too much. Keep in mind, I've been big advocate of buffing rogues. But in the same way a Mage should be tentative to rush a rogue, rogues need to be tentative to come behind the tanks at mages. Mistakes on both sides should be punished.

The balance lies between where we are now and where we were at 41. Terminator rogues must not exist again. They rule pve. They ruled pvp. That's a no no. I'm not trying to get handled by a rogue that spent 30m or 1/5 of what I did. An equally geared rogue should beat a Mage and they do. A 20m rogue should have no chance against me. They ruled for the longest season in al history. We want balance now. Tanks and mages are fine. Give the rogues their armor and play with the damage numbers. It's simple. I've been saying this and everyone got salty. Now the other two classes may get a nerf to their class defining skills. Fine maybe but definitely renerf aimed shot. It's not just the best skill for rogue. It's the best skill in the game.


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+1
#11chars

[donniezhibet]

i agree if u nerf mage shield, but dont nerf warrior, just give rogue some damage reduction, problem solved...

koruption is best pet for killing warrior, i hope u release new pet for killing mages and rogues
thanks...

[donniezhibet]

i agree with u zeuz....
nerf makes people boring do pvp..
if sts want balance give rogues damage reduction.. problem solved

[diimitrii]

Mages get nerfed lately, with this arc shield nerf we will have no chance in pvp, what? The way it is now in pvp is good imo, just keep it this way

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[Niixed]

Devs

In the meeting earlier this week in which this course of action was decided, was there a spot at the table for the players? Someone should be acting as the in-house player advocate (devil's advocate? ). Players feel dictated to and left out of the decision making process, which, as you're witnessing here, creates turmoil and resentment. If these nerfs must happen, it would help immensely if you laid out the reasons why you believe nerfing is the best strategy in this scenario. Also, please tell us why you think no other course of action is viable. Some players have made suggestions that seem simple, logical and don't involve nerfing, but there hasn't been any response to them.

[Oaheuzihar]

In my opinion, the issue with endgame pvp is that rogues got nerfed too hard on their armor. All i need to do is use sheild, charge fireball, hope i don't get dual crit while doing this, then use a stunning AA and another charged fireball and sheild and keep cycling this. Me and my friends don't die while doing this cuz we are using mage gear that gives a lot of HP plus our passive attribute points area split between INT and STR. The only time we die is when the rogue gets lucky with dodge.

TL;DR Rogues need some, but not all, of their armor back.

[Zeus]

In my opinion, the issue with endgame pvp is that rogues got nerfed too hard on their armor. All i need to do is use sheild, charge fireball, hope i don't get dual crit while doing this, then use a stunning AA and another charged fireball and sheild and keep cycling this. Me and my friends don't die while doing this cuz we are using mage gear that gives a lot of HP plus our passive attribute points area split between INT and STR. The only time we die is when the rogue gets lucky with dodge.

TL;DR Rogues need some, but not all, of their armor back.

They need more than just that, because even when they had their armor back...mage stack was a recurring issue.