PVP Updates: We're going live! PART 3

[Oaheuzihar]

Thanks Vroom, but are rogues going to get any damage reduction besides the 10% mastery for razor? It's really essential and we even have a handful of sorcerers agreeing that 25% is not all that much?

From my standpoint, 25% is fine. Have any warriors actually agreed on this? They will be affected more because their damage reduction from jugg is lower than charged arcane shield.

[( DAMAGE )]

Rogues with a buff to their survivability would just ruin the game..
with that insane damage..
solo no one would ever kill a rogue.....with that crazy damage and them being able to outlive tanks/mages shields they would become un killable exactly like in the previous seasons any noob with gears can tap buttons and kill the most skilled tanks and mages....atleast now pvp is like the paper rock scissors theory devs mentioned before which is better than being on 1 class rules the game!
But rogues should not have a buff to their defence!

EDIT imo best way to fix the issue is nerf other classes damage or specifically mages damage so that when you add a mage or a rogue u have to sacrifice...either u take a rogue for damage or a mage for support mana etc....

[intrepd]

Rogues with a buff to their survivability would just ruin the game..
with that insane damage..
solo no one would ever kill a rogue.....with that crazy damage and them being able to outlive tanks/mages shields they would become un killable exactly like in the previous seasons any noob with gears can tap buttons and kill the most skilled tanks and mages....atleast now pvp is like the paper rock scissors theory devs mentioned before which is better than being on 1 class rules the game!
But rogues do and should not have a buff to their defence!

25% Reduce damage is not even any good in vs imo, i would rather keep nox instead, dont forget that this would be buffed on razor not on stats which mean that we are going to lose a offensive skill just for a little reduce damage which is not any better than nekro shield.

[Breakingbadxx]

Firstly, I applaud the way you guys communicate with the AL community, it allows for great things to be possible for this game and its done beyond that of most other games. You really do deserve praise for listening to and discussing with your players so well.

Theoretically, increasing the duration of razor shield by 3 seconds should do no more to increase survivability more than the potential of the current razor shield.

Being stunned in a clash is a circumstantial way rogues get wiped, but the fact is really the damage taken, which they can't even hang on by a thread to. Originally being "tanky" meant that the effect of being stunned in a clash could be nullified, so at that time, "tankiness" served a purpose immunity could not even hope to compare.

Additionally, the buffs you are giving (and propose to continue to give) to the rogue class seem (respectfully) very minor (judging by the path taken via the previous and current suggestions).

Is there any way that you can assure the rogue community that IF a major buff is necessary at some point, that option is available?

I can understand taking things slow and simple to not affect the current PvP game-play much, but when the end result of these buffs or after such a long period of time spent buffing; leads to not solving the problem of rogue usefullness in a team in PvP, a major frustration will erupt due to patience on the side of those players. You should keep this in mind.

As far back as I remember, sending out major buffs and adjusting them as necessary seemed to work fine, save time and keep player dissatisfaction to a minimum.

Sadly, my friend already gave up hope in you guys when you suggested the x2 damage on noxus bolt as a solve for the problem of low rogue survivability in clashes (which has been present for a long time now). The first suggested change to the razor shield just seemed to put the nail in the coffin. This may also explain why we see the same faces and low numbers from the rogue community commenting on every thread involving the question of rogue usefulness in team PvP.

Some say a class restriction in PvP will stop them playing with friends, but there has been no class restriction implemented and...I can no longer play with my friend.

Thanks for your time.

[DAmage126]

please show 1 post were someone asked for 200% reduction here, all i see is 25% which is not even alot but enough for a smart rogue to survive

It sarcasm just saying that if you want to survive a cluster of mages you better have like 200% or something (which is not happening)

[DAmage126]

lol isnt rogue suppose to take mage?, what happened rock paper scissor? where warrior has enermous advantage over rogue which even leads imposible to take down, you want to take rogue before your shild goes down

do you know what happens when nekro shield goes down which has way less of a duration than mage shield mage destroys rogue it matters on group fights

on side note if you use razor, you lose your nox, so that spam combo loses entire skill, calculate that also on your hypotetical battle

If you want class balance start thinking how it would be a fair fight between the classes not which class should dominate the other

[will0]

Before Nekro was introduce rogues are very much op in PVP many seasons and reasons together with warrior arcane maul with countless stuns, now you all complain after Nekro buff you are unable to survive....

Reading many pages of this thread we can easily identify who are the few been asking for buff and more buff (rants). Nerf Nekro in pvp so rogues will have to use razor shield even they like or not they are too reliant on nekro and asking for op skills... This applies to anyone using nekro i think will be fair ..

[Imback Al]

There is a simple conclusion to this. Sts adds real clashes. CONFIGURABLE CLASHES. One team creates a clash, and decides what classes are used. 2 Mage 3 tank..3 rogue 2 Mage..2 tank 1 Mage 2 rogues etc etc.

[Imback Al]

The clash domain in pvp. A seperate map much like duel environment...since vs takes precedence over clash right? Lmao

[Safiras]

Before Nekro was introduce rogues are very much op in PVP many seasons and reasons together with warrior arcane maul with countless stuns, now you all complain after Nekro buff you are unable to survive....

Reading many pages of this thread we can easily identify who are the few been asking for buff and more buff (rants). Nerf Nekro in pvp so rogues will have to use razor shield even they like or not they are too reliant on nekro and asking for op skills... This applies to anyone using nekro i think will be fair ..

This was before the buff to sorceror shield that allowed you to gain stun immunity and erase all negative effects including curse and poison. Do not forget this. Without the shield buff you would be right, but we are no longer in that period of the game when sorcerors were always stunned and had no stun protection. Rogues won because in spite of your shield we could still stun you. Not anymore.

[will0]

This was before the buff to sorceror shield that allowed you to gain stun immunity and erase all negative effects including curse and poison. Do not forget this. Without the shield buff you would be right, but we are no longer in that period of the game when sorcerors were always stunned and had no stun protection. Rogues won because in spite of your shield we could still stun you. Not anymore.

Yes i agree your statement, but now with razor shield buff it is still not enough looking at all those threads ... Shield is part of mage survival tool, and in AL razor as well even though it is not use for many reason still a skill of protection.

Remove nekro all together and see what will happen to pvp... all back to basic.

[Zeus]

Yes i agree your statement, but now with razor shield buff it is still not enough looking at all those threads ... Shield is part of mage survival tool, and in AL razor as well even though it is not use for many reason still a skill of protection.

Remove nekro all together and see what will happen to pvp... all back to basic.

You would need to take away sorcerer shield buffs as well if you remove Nekro.

[Plqgue]

You would need to take away sorcerer shield buffs as well if you remove Nekro.

Wouldn't you just love that haha

[Breakingbadxx]

Its clear that the developers fear breaking the 1v1 balance by allowing rogues to become tanky enough to survive in a clash against warriors and mages.

Is there any way to give them such survivability in ONLY a TEAM scenario?

These minor buffs will just amount to making rogues 1v1 kings and still unusable in clashes.

From what I see, the rogue community clearly couldn't care less for what happens in a 1v1 scenario.

They want to clash.

[Earlingstad]

Its clear that the developers fear breaking the 1v1 balance by allowing rogues to become tanky enough to survive in a clash against warriors and mages.

Is there any way to give them such survivability in ONLY a TEAM scenario?

These minor buffs will just amount to making rogues 1v1 kings and still unusable in clashes.

From what I see, the rogue community clearly couldn't care less for what happens in a 1v1 scenario.

They want to clash.

Speak for yourself. Rogues do care about 1v1. Right now in duels Warrios, Mages and Rogues have achieved a sort of balance where the classes can kill each other. Its fine. And on all my toons - mage/warrior/rogue- I want to play 1v1 as well as clash but 1v1 is preferred.

Razor shield upgrade just MIGHT solve the issue of rogues getting left out of clashes without toppling the 1v1 balance. Let us try it first.

[Breakingbadxx]

Speak for yourself. Rogues do care about 1v1. Right now in duels Warrios, Mages and Rogues have achieved a sort of balance where the classes can kill each other. Its fine. And on all my toons - mage/warrior/rogue- I want to play 1v1 as well as clash but 1v1 is preferred.

Razor shield upgrade just MIGHT solve the issue of rogues getting left out of clashes without toppling the 1v1 balance. Let us try it first.

Enjoy your "buffs" then.

As long as mages remain unchanged, anyone (including me) would always choose a mage over a rogue to have on a PvP team. (Especially when a mage stack will always mean doomsday for any rogue(s) regardless of skill). *Especially since the developers have made it clear that rogues won't be getting any really game changing buffs. (Happy days for warriors like myself and mages).

You hope to counter a warrior and mage team with a rogue stack some day? *imagines the day* > we can all dream I guess.

I already have a perfect plan (using a mage stack) to counter any rogue trying stay alive using razor shield. It takes into account the fact that the glass has just gained immunity for long periods but is still the same GLASS.

Forget increasing survivability via increasing armor or damage reduction because the developers have clearly stated that you will REMAIN GLASS.

On that topic, are rogues going to be present to struggle to survive or deal damage?

Don't bother responding to or quoting this post.

I'm done here, thanks.

[Imback Al]

Enjoy your "buffs" then.

As long as mages remain unchanged, anyone (including me) would always choose a mage over a rogue to have on a PvP team. (Especially when a mage stack will always mean doomsday for any rogue(s) regardless of skill). *Especially since the developers have made it clear that rogues won't be getting any really game changing buffs. (Happy days for warriors like myself and mages).

You hope to counter a warrior and mage team with a rogue stack some day? *imagines the day* > we can all dream I guess.

I already have a perfect plan (using a mage stack) to counter any rogue trying stay alive using razor shield.

Forget increasing survivability via increasing armor or damage reduction because the developers have clearly stated that you will REMAIN GLASS.

On that topic, are rogues going to be present to struggle to survive or deal damage?

Don't bother responding to or quoting this post.

I'm done here, thanks.

First off lol. Zeus and I beat 2 tanks 1 Mage 2v3 in tdm. He can attest. It's really simple. Rogues just don't know how to use haste set intelligently. Sts gave rogues haste set to make them in demand. If you use haste set with your regular arc ring pp/arc pendant set, then you can swap between the two making you unkillable if you know how to use it.

[Breakingbadxx]

First off lol. Zeus and I beat 2 tanks 1 Mage 2v3 in tdm. He can attest. It's really simple. Rogues just don't know how to use haste set intelligently. Sts gave rogues haste set to make them in demand. If you use haste set with your regular arc ring pp/arc pendant set, then you can swap between the two making you unkillable if you know how to use it.

Let's just compare every rogue and their wallets to you or Zeus.

2 rogues on 1 team with etc. vs 2 warriors and 3 mages...I'll leave it there.

Enjoy your buffs.

I already stated that i'm done here.

[Sweetkitty]

Perhaps it's time for sts to deploy the arrogance nerf and we can go back to enjoying a fun game....

[Ireliaa]

If you want class balance start thinking how it would be a fair fight between the classes not which class should dominate the other

sure thats was my first suggestion, tell that to warriors not me.
anyway feedback etc here going nowhere im done here i have no hope its gonna be handled