Discussion: Should Every Class Switch To A Rifle At Bosses?

[ProSophist]

I stand corrected. [B]
Is this enough to conclude that rifles are ultimately better than dual pistols for Operatives? I'm not quite ready to say yes just yet. There are still plenty of factors to look at such as normal attack damage, hit%, crit%, and armor.

Just so your head doesn't hurt, I can tell you that...

			
Flash	Rifle	Delta	
200	200	--	Seconds
0.5	0.8	--	Speed
400	250	150	Total Shots
20%	20%	--	Crit Rate
320 	200 	120	Normal Shots
80 	50 	30	Critical Shots
100%	100%	--	Notmal Damage
133%	133%	--	Crit Damage
426.4	266.5	159.9	Damage Multiplier
107%	107%	--	Shot Multiplier
29	38	-9	Min Dam /w Lv 30 Epic
53	76	-23	Max Dam /w Lv 30 Epic
41	57	-16	Avg Dam /w Lv 30 Epic
17482	15191	2291.9	Total Dam
87.41	75.95	11.46	DPS
5	5	--	Armor Reduction
36	52	--	Avg Dam /w Lv 30 Epic After Armor
15350	13858	1492.4	Total Dam
76.75	69.29	7.46	DPS

Including crit rates (and optionally hit and dodge rates, which just act as multipliers), the Flashguns do more damage.

The armor was just assumed to be a flat rate, but that's just an estimation tool and is not how the game behaves.

We won't be able to put this issue to bed until PVP, where we can run controlled armor better.

What I can take from data is that it goes against the rifle for boss/dual for mobs norm that's going around the forums.

Since rifles deal higher numbers, which in turn increases skill damage, it would be more beneficial to use rifles against trash mobs as they die almost instantly. Hence, normal attacks would almost be irrelevant.

As for bosses, dual pistols would PROBABLY be better due to the long duration of the fight. Because of this, dps might have more value over high base damage.

Though like you said, it cant be settled unless it is tested in a controlled environment.

Im happy to see numbers though.

[Moogerfooger]

Just so your head doesn't hurt, I can tell you that...

			
Flash	Rifle	Delta	
200	200	--	Seconds
0.5	0.8	--	Speed
400	250	150	Total Shots
20%	20%	--	Crit Rate
320 	200 	120	Normal Shots
80 	50 	30	Critical Shots
100%	100%	--	Notmal Damage
133%	133%	--	Crit Damage
426.4	266.5	159.9	Damage Multiplier
107%	107%	--	Shot Multiplier
29	38	-9	Min Dam /w Lv 30 Epic
53	76	-23	Max Dam /w Lv 30 Epic
41	57	-16	Avg Dam /w Lv 30 Epic
17482	15191	2291.9	Total Dam
87.41	75.95	11.46	DPS
5	5	--	Armor Reduction
36	52	--	Avg Dam /w Lv 30 Epic After Armor
15350	13858	1492.4	Total Dam
76.75	69.29	7.46	DPS

Including crit rates (and optionally hit and dodge rates, which just act as multipliers), the Flashguns do more damage.

The armor was just assumed to be a flat rate, but that's just an estimation tool and is not how the game behaves.

We won't be able to put this issue to bed until PVP, where we can run controlled armor better.

I do not see in your numbers where you account for enemy armor (which is more than 5), other than maybe 'armor reduction' and that is unclear what it means (to me, anyway). In PL, Crit hits are double damage, not 1.33x damage, I assume you got that number from somewhere via SL testing, correct?

I'd like to see your calcs, as you have some multipliers that are not evident as to how you got the numbers for them.

[Ellyidol]

Have yet to read the entire thread, just wanted to answer based on thread title alone.

I was under the impression that a Rifle would actually do better in bosses, same thinking as a 2H would do better in bosses in PL. However, lately I've been switching to and from pistols/rifles to find a good gear setup.

I have to say I'm really impressed with the heavy pistol versus the rifle, damage-wise. I don't know if having a 2x damage enhancer on would actually be the reason, what do you think?

[Hullukko]

Does anybody have proof that rifles DO increase skill damage?

I did some testing last night for personal reasons on skill damage and I did not see any significant change in damage(perhaps 1-3 damage, but that is a very minimal change and almost insignificant).

Yes.

Some was done for 25 cap gear earlier in the engineer thread. I have new data coming out soon with 30 gear, but from an engineer pov again and to the engineer thread. The differences were within 5% between the Dispenser and the Incinerator while the Crushers and the Widow fell in between.

Here were the early results: link

Also, skill descriptions indicate no change when switching weapons. Before the fix in skills descriptions, it did show changes in damage range depending on the weapon.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

Sadly so. In PL this was easier and faster to check. Now in SL only the skill base damage is shown in the skill descriptions and there really no other way than to test it.

[Physiologic]

Has anyone actually done an in-game comparison between rifles and other weapons, and how fast it takes to complete a map? To set it up, a knowledgeble and skilled party equipped with top-tier rifles to run through Slouch-O Commercial Filming several times, getting an average run-time, and running it again using class-specific weapons?

[Raulur]

As an engineer, I prefer to just stick with my heavy pistol on Director Droid just because I don't want aggro. Might start switching once I hit 30 and equip better gear, I'll just have to try and see how long I can live with aggro.

On previous bosses I usually changed to a rifle, and I used a rifle exclusively on the last 2 lvls of Numa Prime. I could handle aggro for a good bit against the Guardian in plat gear, but I would eventually fall behind.