Controversial Idea: Make the remaining demonic crafting components buyable with plat

[WhoIsThis]

Okay, as the title hints, keep this one civil as I am fully aware that a lot of people are gonna disagree with this.

One of the newer features that STS introduced with the Demonic Sets was to make the recipes buyable with platinum. I propose making the crafting components buyable with platinum as well.

The following items would be buyable with platinum (I recommend a price of 3 plat a piece, which was the same price as components would have cost in the Sewers):

- Para Aramid Leather Fibre
- Para Aramid Cloth Fibre
- Para Aramid Plate Fibre
- Imbued Gemstone Setting
- Glyph Crossbow Base
- Glyph Mace Body Base
- Basic 1H Glyph Blade
- Basic 2H Glyph Blade
- Basic Glyph Wand
- Basic Glyph Staff
- Basic Glyph Bracer
- Basic Glyph Buckler Shield
- Basic Glyph Wing Shield

I may have forgotten a few; I think most readers know what I mean.





Anticipated criticisms:
Is it fair to the people that already bought?

Only a very small percentage of people have spent gold, so the sooner this idea is implemented, the less people will have to lose. In fact, one of the reasons why I am advocating this is to put demonic sets into the hands of any player will to pay quickly, particularly because there is a CTF tournament coming up. This would negate any advantages that one team could have over the other, provided that most members are willing to pay (and in PvP, that is a yes in most cases). I see it as a win-win-win. The people who paid a premium got the prestige of getting the sets first. Everyone else gets the sets a few days after and the people who paid first no longer get an advantage for the CTF games. STS walks away with some platinum sales.


Will this set a precedent?

STS has already done that by making the recipes buyable with plat. The only things that I would consider truly unique that I feel should never be sold in the plat store are items like the Founder's Helm (although a vanity with similar stats in my opinion should be offered; founders of course would still have the pride of owning a unique item), Crowns of Persistence, the Shield of Gratitude, and the White Hardlight Shield (for SL name reservations).

Furthermore, items purchased from the plat store shouldn't be sellable in the CS.

This does make the game a bit more pay and do things faster, but at the same time, that's what many players want. The sheer volume of elixir sales is a testament to that.



The purpose of this is to give players choice. Nobody is forcing a player to buy elixirs nor to buy recipes. Players who wish to can always do so the long way and feel good about themselves. But people who don't want to do that will also have a choice to buy what they need if my suggestion is implemented.

[Riccits]

i am already counter the plat recipes wich ruins already... this would destroy even more.
why not also buy a glyph/demonic set for plat so we dont need to pve anymore??

[WhoIsThis]

i am already counter the plat recipes wich ruins already... this would destroy even more.
why not also buy a glyph/demonic set for plat so we dont need to pve anymore??

I actually consider that outcome to be highly desirable. It will allow players to focus on their true passions. In my case, this is PvP, which does not earn money or drops.

However, I still feel that some farming should be necessary and that all PvP players should retain some PvE skills. It's why I don't advocate that xp should be gained outside of PvE. But farming for recipes endlessly seems a bit ... unnecessary.

[JaytB]

I'm 100% against this idea. If everyone can just buy their sets with real life money, where's the point in even playing the game, except for pvp? Who will even want to play pve anymore, if you can just buy everything without the long grind? Getting pieces and your sets needs to feel like an accomplishment IMO. If all that stuff would be buyable with real money, where's the fun in that?

I sincerely hope, this will NEVER even be considered to be implemented. And I mean this in the most polite way possible

[Riccits]

how whoisthis said, pure pvper would like it. they could only pvping and have fun there without ever farm for equip
but main part of PL is PVE, wich would be completly obsolete wich such a implement. no reason to play anymore...

[JaytB]

how whoisthis said, pure pvper would like it. they could only pvping and have fun there without ever farm for equip
but main part of PL is PVE, wich would be completly obsolete wich such a implement. no reason to play anymore...

Exactly! This would make the game completely obsolete to all farmers IMO

[Kraze]

Okay, as the title hints, keep this one civil as I am fully aware that a lot of people are gonna disagree with this.

One of the newer features that STS introduced with the Demonic Sets was to make the recipes buyable with platinum. I propose making the crafting components buyable with platinum as well.

The following items would be buyable with platinum (I recommend a price of 3 plat a piece, which was the same price as components would have cost in the Sewers):

- Para Aramid Leather Fibre
- Para Aramid Cloth Fibre
- Para Aramid Plate Fibre
- Imbued Gemstone Setting
- Glyph Crossbow Base
- Glyph Mace Body Base
- Basic 1H Glyph Blade
- Basic 2H Glyph Blade
- Basic Glyph Wand
- Basic Glyph Staff
- Basic Glyph Bracer
- Basic Glyph Buckler Shield
- Basic Glyph Wing Shield

I may have forgotten a few; I think most readers know what I mean.





Anticipated criticisms:
Is it fair to the people that already bought?

Only a very small percentage of people have spent gold, so the sooner this idea is implemented, the less people will have to lose. In fact, one of the reasons why I am advocating this is to put demonic sets into the hands of any player will to pay quickly, particularly because there is a CTF tournament coming up. This would negate any advantages that one team could have over the other, provided that most members are willing to pay (and in PvP, that is a yes in most cases). I see it as a win-win-win. The people who paid a premium got the prestige of getting the sets first. Everyone else gets the sets a few days after and the people who paid first no longer get an advantage for the CTF games. STS walks away with some platinum sales.


Will this set a precedent?

STS has already done that by making the recipes buyable with plat. The only things that I would consider truly unique that I feel should never be sold in the plat store are items like the Founder's Helm (although a vanity with similar stats in my opinion should be offered; founders of course would still have the pride of owning a unique item), Crowns of Persistence, the Shield of Gratitude, and the White Hardlight Shield (for SL name reservations).

Furthermore, items purchased from the plat store shouldn't be sellable in the CS.

This does make the game a bit more pay and do things faster, but at the same time, that's what many players want. The sheer volume of elixir sales is a testament to that.



The purpose of this is to give players choice. Nobody is forcing a player to buy elixirs nor to buy recipes. Players who wish to can always do so the long way and feel good about themselves. But people who don't want to do that will also have a choice to buy what they need if my suggestion is implemented.

I actually don't like the recipes for plat. What's next for a fee of 1,000 plat BAM your at level cap? And seriously why bring up founder helm? It's not like it gets a bigger bonus with the nuri shield. It's also interesting that you want then to release a helm similar to the founder but the COP. Willing to wager that you have one but not the other...

[WhoIsThis]

@Kraze:

I would liike to ask you whether you have read my earlier posts. I mentioned very clearly that I do feel that PvPers should maintain some degree of PvE skill.

I said that I would like a helm with similar stats to the Founder's helm as it has caused some controversy, but not the helm itself which will always remain unique. The purpose is solely for low level twinking where the 5 damage, 5 armor bonus is significant (whereas it is negligible in level cap). Your bet is correct, but for the wrong reasons. If such an item were introduced, it's unlikely I would ever use it, because I don't twink. The only reason that I might buy it is for collecting. But I know a lot of people who do twink and sympathise with their cause.






The other posts though do raise some valid concerns. The value of farming for recipes will drop, but the value of farming for pinks will remain.

I use SL as an example. In SL, the plat store sets are comparable and in some ways superior to their farmed counterparts. Yet farming still has value and people still do it.

[Kraze]

@Kraze:

I would liike to ask you whether you have read my earlier posts. I mentioned very clearly that I do feel that PvPers should maintain some degree of PvE skill.

I said that I would like a helm with similar stats to the Founder's helm as it has caused some controversy, but not the helm itself which will always remain unique. The purpose is solely for low level twinking where the 5 damage, 5 armor bonus is significant (whereas it is negligible in level cap). Your bet is correct, but for the wrong reasons. If such an item were introduced, it's unlikely I would ever use it, because I don't twink. The only reason that I might buy it is for collecting. But I know a lot of people who do twink and sympathise with their cause.






The other posts though do raise some valid concerns. The value of farming for recipes will drop, but the value of farming for pinks will remain.

I use SL as an example. In SL, the plat store sets are comparable and in some ways superior to their farmed counterparts. Yet farming still has value and people still do it.

Can you see how it seems a tad hypocritical to say you don't want the vanity reissued that you have that can provide a stat boost reissued but the one you don't have needs a counterpart? You bring up an interesting point with sl the big difference is however the sl plat gear is completely different gear that is not tradable. While I personally don't like buying gear I can see the appeal others find in the idea. What you are suggesting here would allow someone to spend some plat to turn a 2-3 mil set in to an 18 mil set buy simply spending plat and I feel like that's not a good direction for the game.

[WhoIsThis]

Can you see how it seems a tad hypocritical to say you don't want the vanity reissued that you have that can provide a stat boost reissued but the one you don't have needs a counterpart?

I don't twink (nor do I have any plans to do so) and it is unlikely that with the crown of persistence bonus I would ever use it or purchase it, so I see no conflict. But let re-focus on the issue at hand - recipe components for purchase.

You bring up an interesting point with sl the big difference is however the sl plat gear is completely different gear that is not tradable. While I personally don't like buying gear I can see the appeal others find in the idea. What you are suggesting here would allow someone to spend some plat to turn a 2-3 mil set in to an 18 mil set buy simply spending plat and I feel like that's not a good direction for the game.

In SL, it has already happened.

The Outlaws set was better for example than the Desert Rat set. Yet people still farmed Guardian very aggressively and the Outlaws Set (along with the Shiny Metal Pistols) sold for a premium (or by SL standards anyways; money is harder to get in SL). But I am not proposing making an items comparable to the top end glyph sets in this thread. Unless you are implying that the economy of PL and SL are dissimilar, the same result would be expected for PL. But I do have to ask again - did you read my proposal? I wanted the recipe components NOT the glyph items sold for plat so both your response and the response of Riccits is not a counterargument to my proposal. You are arguing against the drawbacks of making the pink items not the recipe components purchasable (an argument which I nonetheless took the time to refute).

People would still have to farm for the Obedience, Charming, and Strongmans sets. But once they did, they could buy the recipes for 20 plat and then each component for 3 plat a piece.

Expected results:
- Level 60 glyph pieces will be worth more than their 56 and 58 counterparts (which will happen anyways)
- Level 60 glyph pieces may actually APPRECIATE in value (due to ease of crafting). This is very important because it largely means that the argument that making recipes for sale will reduce the value of farming is untrue.

There is a historical precedence for this in PL. When the "Green sparkle" custom set was introduced, custom set recipes shot through the roof in prices. But not only did custom prices rise, so did level 55 raid roach. The base components rose in price because crafting now offered a serious bonus. Before the green sparkles, it was debatable whether or not custom versus raid roach recurve was a better set.

The second historical precedent is the introduction of the set bonuses for Shadow, Sentinel, and Hate, which caused the sets to double in price overnight. In this case, crafting was not applicable. But by making set bonuses all of a sudden (even though they were not big set bonuses), the items suddenly became worth more.

- The value of recipes will decline to what players consider 20 plat to be worth in gold (which is already happening because the plat sets are for sale), while the crafting components will decline to the market equivalent of 3 plat (which is what will happen if my suggestion is implemented).
- Items that are considered less valuable will decline to less than 20 plat (such as the 2H sword). This is already happening.

[NECROREAPER]

What about instead of having all the items available for plat sale, you make only a few available, perhaps one per recipe. Another idea is put a cap on the number of items the person can buy, like only 3/10 but they can buy any of the 10, just three of them. Also, those plat bought items would HAVE to be untradeable

[Flickz]

Does anybody that disagreed with this thread have less than 1m gold? Jw

[WhoIsThis]

What about instead of having all the items available for plat sale, you make only a few available, perhaps one per recipe. Another idea is put a cap on the number of items the person can buy, like only 3/10 but they can buy any of the 10, just three of them. Also, those plat bought items would HAVE to be untradeable

Untradeable I firmly agree with. Current recipes are untradeable as well.

The problem with the other suggestion is that which items? Each of the demonic sets has different items available for plat sale, so in a sense, limiting them would be "picking winners and losers". By doing so, I suspect that it would cause prices to widely fluctuate where one item is vastly more expensive than the other. That said, it's not without merit (it may encourage farming certain bosses for example which may be something highly desirable; it's impossible to predict the effects without knowing which items and there is no historical precedence to draw on), but it does defeat the purpose of making a plat store where everything crafting related is available ... for the right amount of plat.

[WhoIsThis]

Does anybody that disagreed with this thread have less than 1m gold? Jw

No.

So far, it's noteworthy that everyone here who has expressed a vociferous opinion against this is from one guild: COT which currently controls a near monopoly (IIRC, I believe I saw Tashyang of Unity with a full set; need to congratulate him in game).

I suspect that they may be trying to protect their investment (apparently, at least one player spent in excess of 10 million on it). My goal in this respect is to create the conditions of such where people who already have the sets can quickly and easily craft them, provided that they are willing to pay. This does create an inherent conflict of interest so I have been a bit more harsh in my replies because of this and I do have some skepticism - whose interests do they have at heart, that of the community, or entrenching themselves as the most prestigious guild in PL?

There is still a reason to farm. If you have 10m+, you have just saved a lot of platinum (almost 200 plat in fact).

Full disclosure on my part:
I suppose it would be unfair if I were to point out COT's inherent conflict of interest without discussing mine. As a PvP player, I view the best possible outcome as one where people can level, people with some dedication can get the end game sets, and do whatever they want after getting them, whether that be to PvP, farm, hang out with friends, whatever. So in that respect, I and the rest of the community (who do not own the end game sets) have an inherent interest in creating policies that would increase the ease in crafting.

As I mentioned, I do wish to create a balance though between this and for that reason, I do support having a system where top items are rare and expensive (thereby requiring some, but not excessive) farming or merchanting (you have to farm to some extent to get to the level cap anyways).

[Nick41324]

If so.. Then they should make it so that if you even use one recipe item bought with plat, then it would make the item you crafted untradeable.

[ScarecrowWolf]

You know what I am 100% with this idea.

Some ppl are fortunate enough to have enough money to buy gold or are merchers to buy the ingredients for the recipe. Wouldnt it be nice if there were more players with the set. After all, the glyph sets are better than the demonic sets anyways.

Some players dont have a guild that runs a monopoly on the items or will help them get the items. Im sure the ppl that are against the idea are in guilds that are flooded with players that have the sets and would like to seperate themselves from soli players such as myself.

I welcome the platinum idea. I like the fact that we can bring in some sts income in exchange for an awesome looking set. And if no one is with the 3 plat idea, what about raising the price to 20 plat each item? With that there still wouldnt be alot of players with the set, but there would be more.

After all, sts is trying to help the community right? It sounds like the ones against the idea are kind of selfish in my mind.

Please dont hesitate to disagree, or hate, my idea as many of you that read my reply are going to quote it.

[WhoIsThis]

Re-reading this, I should also disclose that I am not by PL standards poor, but not rich either. I have a couple of million in gold and own one end game level 60 set. I also have about 4 million worth of items that I am not currently using. So in theory, if I were willing to reach into my coffers, I could actually buy enough crafting items to complete a demonic set for that set and perhaps complete a second set. This should however dissaude any accusations that I am too poor to afford the set which is why I advocate for this. I have just proven otherwise.

Please inform me if there is anything else that anybody feels needs disclosure.

[Flickz]

If you want to help out everybody like you say then whats wrong with this idea? It wouldn't harm anyone unless they were making a profit off of the prices of glyphs, craft materials, ect..

[Otukura]

I like it. One thing though, I'd rather them sell the parts of things such as the para cloth scraps, rather than the fibres. 1p each would net a tiny but more.

[WolfShaman]

Let us consider, for a moment, amongst the vitriolic verbage spewing forth, and the thumping of chests, the assigned developer drop rate of any Legendary (pink) item. It's 1%. The equation is on a thread, I believe his name is Physiologic (I may be wrong about the name and I apologize). The point farming, as the fan boys call it these days, is futile. It's fruitless labor. The devs know it. We know it as players. Yet, like Pavlov's dog, we salivate over the Elixers, hoping that re-roll will net us the prize.
The Reward v Risk is skewed in the developers favor. They [want] us to spend hours in the game. They [want] us to spend (X) hundreds of dollars each pay period to stuff our virtual pockets with platinum for the next 15 hour grind-fest through Nuri's Monotonous House of All Pain and No Rewards. If anything should come of this, the developers need to realize that as a game without fun, useful rewards for killing the Boss, and new challenges, the game becomes stagnant. People lose interest.
It's not those fan boy Guilds that hold a monopoly upon the players it's the developers themselves for not incorporating a better drop rate. Higher level players deserve better drops. Higher level players deserve to feel like they've accomplished something. At this juncture of the game's genesis, being level 60, I don't feel like I accomplished anything. I don't feel my character is Legendary. Open the drop rate of Legendary items. Open the crafting items for sale. The players inevitably will come to the trough to feed. You'll still get your money. Players will get a better experience. Everyone will be happy.