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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: The real problem with PvP

  1. #61
    Senior Member Bazinga!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    And you talked about FFA system all the time. Birds had dodge buff since beginning, mages never had that because they have other buffs, don't try to manipulate the simple fact.

    The rest of the post is just a 'rage post' & tbh my posts are always full of logics and to the point, go read those back. It's different matter that you don't have nothing nogical to say against it now. Thx
    You're the only person who has posted in this thread without really saying anything. What does this post even mean? What does me talking about FFA have to do with your inability to play bird? You stated that birds always had a dodge buff and mages never had one. OK so you stated a fact... What are you trying to imply though; that birds are more over-powered than mages? And how am I trying to manipulate this fact?

    The last part of your post just cracked me up lmao. Your posts are neither logical nor do they get to any sort of 'point'. Rather they just cause more and more questions to arise. You're only concern is about dodge. According to you, dodge makes a class overpowered. So going by your logic, birds are more powerful than mages. That's logic for you; analysing the cause and the effect. What you're doing is posting nonsense and claiming that your posts are correct and undeniable and trying to get someone to believe you.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    University with a full ride
    is that like, the equivalent of a scholarship?

    to add to the thread:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    nothing lasts forever

  4. #63
    Senior Member Bazinga!'s Avatar
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    Full ride is like the best scholarship I think.

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  6. #64
    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazinga! View Post
    You're the only person who has posted in this thread without really saying anything. What does this post even mean? What does me talking about FFA have to do with your inability to play bird? You stated that birds always had a dodge buff and mages never had one. OK so you stated a fact... What are you trying to imply though; that birds are more over-powered than mages? And how am I trying to manipulate this fact?

    The last part of your post just cracked me up lmao. Your posts are neither logical nor do they get to any sort of 'point'. Rather they just cause more and more questions to arise. You're only concern is about dodge. According to you, dodge makes a class overpowered. So going by your logic, birds are more powerful than mages. That's logic for you; analysing the cause and the effect. What you're doing is posting nonsense and claiming that your posts are correct and undeniable and trying to get someone to believe you.
    Other than blaming my bird playing inability and calling my posts nonsense which u couldn't prove in any way any form, you actually have two points in ur post, I'll address that.

    First you trying to put words on my mouth and then getting into conclusion judging those words, first find those words from my posts in this thread quote and talk, I didn't said that dodge makes something op the way ur trying to project, then bear would be op-est class, case close.

    When you talk about team play FFA, you should know that the advantage and disadvantages of different classes, bird has dodge buff, mages has OTHER BUFFS, everyone don't do same thing on a FFA rather than everybody have unique role, there's the role comes into play, somebody do high damage, somebody heals, somebody tank etc etc.
    Last edited by Waug; 12-30-2016 at 04:48 AM.

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    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    Bear tank
    mage heal
    bird kill

    ffa in a nutshell
    nothing lasts forever

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    Senior Member Bazinga!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    Other than blaming my bird playing inability and calling my posts nonsense which u couldn't prove in any way any form, you actually have two points in ur post, I'll address that.

    First you trying to put words on my mouth and then getting into conclusion judging those words, first find those words from my posts in this thread quote and talk, I didn't said that dodge makes something op the way ur trying to project, then bear would be op-est class, case close.

    When you talk about team play FFA, you should know that the advantage and disadvantages of different classes, bird has dodge buff, mages has OTHER BUFFS, everyone don't do same thing on a FFA rather than everybody have unique role, there's the role comes into play, somebody do high damage, somebody heals, somebody tank etc etc.
    Your inability to play bird is proof that your posts are nonsense.

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    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazinga! View Post
    Your inability to play bird is proof that your posts are nonsense.

    This logic itself doesn't make any kinda sense
    , rather than I think, does it shows the inability of bring up solid points against my posts?

    Anyway, I don't want but let's just say, increase the view count of this video -


  11. #68
    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheugokin View Post
    Let me dissect this because apparently you think you are perfectly understandable. Please explain what does "it's" refer to. Are you saying that Glad's post was not nice or that Buch's wasn't nice? Infect = In fact?

    Onto logical reasoning and flow of ideas: you say that "this time the hypocritical point got its peak," which I am assuming you mean that we are going too far with our statements that they are becoming hypocritical. However, may I ask what removing vanities have to do with us supporting high dodge? I really really lost you there.

    Hypocrisy is defined as act or acts that directly oppose to your words/actions. Let me give you an example: when you say that mages "hide more than <Family> and then you go ahead and hide in the following fights, that is hypocrisy, and thus you would be hypocritical. This is "supposedly" a hypothetical situation, but I beg to differ; that statement, in it of itself is a different discussion.

    Okay, so now, does wearing or not wearing vanities directly oppose to our support of high dodge? I don't see the connection here Waug.

    Also, as a general rule of thumb, the word "all" is too general. Do you know everyone's opinion on high dodge? It may even be a stretch to say most of us hated high dodge: you think the majority of bears in 76/77 cap hated high dodge? Don't judge everyone is the bottom line.

    The last thing I would like to point out is the ambiguity in "though many more to come." Who or even what are you referring to; in other words, who or what is coming? Are the people who support your dodge nerf coming en masse or are the people who oppose your dodge nerf coming?

    I haven't mentioned the EXTREMELY long-winded sentences with odd placement of punctuation. One sentence literally conveyed so many different things in such a disjointed manner: I lost you before the second comma.


    Thankfully, your post is quite short, so I can do this critique because the previous posts have been verbose and circumlocutory. In merely three lines of text, not only are people confused, but also turned off by your language. Please Waug, explain your points in SIMPLER ways. PLEASE. I want to hear what you want to say, just convey it with more succinct and logical phrases.
    Your posts are making me moist Sheu

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  13. #69
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    Decided to visit forums today, didn't expect to see 4 pages of essays on how to fix pvp in a dead game.

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    Just stop saying dead game ur so annyoing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PartayHat View Post
    Just stop saying dead game ur so annyoing...
    If you're directing that towards me, I apologize, and promise to stop being so "annyoing". I have no problem with what's being said in this discussion and I have respect for the people with solid arguments, I just find it weird that this is still going. Trust me, I don't want it to be dead by any means.

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  17. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by anahadaz View Post
    If you're directing that towards me, I apologize, and promise to stop being so "annyoing". I have no problem with what's being said in this discussion and I have respect for the people with solid arguments, I just find it weird that this is still going. Trust me, I don't want it to be dead by any means.
    To be fair, Ana, the devs have been relatively more active and engaged with the PL community since the Halloween update.

    But otherwise, yeah. I never really suspected they'd put time into tweaking the stats.

  18. #73
    Senior Member anahadaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    To be fair, Ana, the devs have been relatively more active and engaged with the PL community since the Halloween update.
    That's a good point, and props to them.

  19. #74
    Senior Member Sheugokin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    Calm down, and this long post didn't answer any of that I asked -

    Take ur time & answer, and I've edited out my assumptions now, so that you can answer freely.

    You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.

    As to answer your questions that I supposedly did not answer. I asked in my previous posts where did I support OP dodge? Can you quote me without manipulating my words?

    The last sentence of the post I quoted here states that I need to answer the questions that you ask. Don't you think it is quite hypocritical (take note here, this is the correct usage of the word) for you to not answer my posts filled with questions? You barely answered any of mine, why should I begin answering yours?

    Just for your information to perhaps underscore your English and your need for improvement in said language: the word "assumption" is used wrong. What assumptions did you make that you now revised? Assumptions are hypotheses based on little to no evidence. So are you saying that your theory on the OPness of dodge has little to no evidence to back it up? Well then, you sold your own argument short if you know what this idiom means. In other words, you aren't completely invested in your ideas.


    Waug, your posts are full of passive-aggressive comments (please use a dictionary with examples to understand what is passive-aggressiveness) and I can assure you that many people here are completely fed up with them.

    You can have your opinions, yes, this is an open forum, but please be aware that others have other opinions and to treat them with such disrespect and a subtle undertone of contempt is very offputting to me and to other viewers. Do not respond telling me to calm down, I'm very calm in fact. I just want you to know to be careful with your words again.

  20. #75
    Senior Member SillyJuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazinga! View Post
    I'm making this thread because there are so many threads about the imbalance in PvP but in my opinion, most of them are missing the point. And it is not like I haven't made one of these before. In my frustration, even I have failed to see the actual problem. I recently looked at OPest's thread about nerfing dodge, which is a good idea if done appropriately. But the total elimination of dodge as he mentioned is something that will cause a lot of problems the way I look at it.

    If you think about the PvP arenas, they aren't called 'Team Deathmatch' for no reason. They are meant for 3 v 3 FFAs. If you look back, there were relatively less (and I'm not saying there weren't any) posts about PvP imbalance before the 76 cap. Rather than talking about how one class was unfair, people talked about the best way to counteract that class. It was only after the 76 cap that there was an increase in the number of posts regarding PvP imbalance. So what was different before and after the 76 cap?

    Before the 76 cap, the game got regular updates and expansions. There were enough people to make at least 4 full PvP games at level cap. When one player left, another one came in almost immediately. There were enough players to have a full fledged FFA match.

    The 76 cap was the last expansion for the next 2.5 years. STS started drifting away from PL and so did players, naturally. PvP became more dependent on the go system and more stupid rules like 'no running' and 'no using trees' came into the picture. I mean come on, I'm sure STS put trees there for the sole purpose of hiding.

    When you exclude movement, hiding and team play, it all boils down to comparing stats. And in the 76 cap, bears had more than 100 hit, the most armour and the most dodge out of all classes and therefore they dominated (or rather the STR class in general dominated). But the fact is that bears are supposed to be the tank in a 3 v 3 match and mages and birds could run around and hide if they wanted, not run straight into the battle.

    All in all, the main problem is the domination of the GO system, as a result of a declining player base.

    If there is one thing I wish STS could have done to sort PvP imbalance out, it is to introduce different types of sets. For example, when STS created MAGOR / ARZAC / WARAT, they did it so that they became better than the current sets, not because it could be used in a strategically different manner.
    This type of item creation can be seen at every level starting from 61. And forget about item creation; after 66 there was literally only one set to wear for each class. Variety in gear can be found in lower levels like 15 but still not to the extent that it should be varied. Unfortunately I'm not a fan of playing with only four skills, other wise I would have been playing AL right now, not writing this post .

    Conclusion:
    After reading through all the posts and thoughts on this topic again, I realise that the problem of statistical imbalances cannot be completely avoided, although I would still say that it can be significantly reduced by having team FFAs, which is the way it is supposed to be, instead of turn by turn individual battles.

    I've bolded out the changes I made. I hope this answers some of the arguments made.
    Totally agree with you, some type of new mode? Lets say 3v3 and only allow the game to start until the whole quo on each team is filled up or if a player leaves just immediately end the game at that moment. Feel like more support classes like rhino or other quick and kill classes like foxes and birds could potentially be used if this could possibly happen. Ahh but that's not the case, lets just rush people and continue to war on like it has been for the past 3 years. And complain and ask for more. Or altogether lose some hope in this game. Regardless pocket legends will be a memorable game for a lot of us and will be keep quitting and coming back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member Congeniality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheugokin View Post
    You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.

    As to answer your questions that I supposedly did not answer. I asked in my previous posts where did I support OP dodge? Can you quote me without manipulating my words?

    The last sentence of the post I quoted here states that I need to answer the questions that you ask. Don't you think it is quite hypocritical (take note here, this is the correct usage of the word) for you to not answer my posts filled with questions? You barely answered any of mine, why should I begin answering yours?

    Just for your information to perhaps underscore your English and your need for improvement in said language: the word "assumption" is used wrong. What assumptions did you make that you now revised? Assumptions are hypotheses based on little to no evidence. So are you saying that your theory on the OPness of dodge has little to no evidence to back it up? Well then, you sold your own argument short if you know what this idiom means. In other words, you aren't completely invested in your ideas.


    Waug, your posts are full of passive-aggressive comments (please use a dictionary with examples to understand what is passive-aggressiveness) and I can assure you that many people here are completely fed up with them.

    You can have your opinions, yes, this is an open forum, but please be aware that others have other opinions and to treat them with such disrespect and a subtle undertone of contempt is very offputting to me and to other viewers. Do not respond telling me to calm down, I'm very calm in fact. I just want you to know to be careful with your words again.
    #getrekt <3 #tothenextdimension
    Last edited by Congeniality; 12-30-2016 at 07:27 PM. Reason: That dimension tho

  22. #77
    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheugokin View Post
    You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.
    This is the greatest thing I have ever heard you say. I'm proud to have you as a friend

  23. #78
    Senior Member Sheugokin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazinga! View Post
    Full ride is like the best scholarship I think.
    Very humbled to accept such an honor (I have a stipend per semester, and I could invite you guys out for some food if you visit!)

    I worked hard and being first-generation, low-income I am proud to go to Pton And no, not everyone who goes to Princeton is the elite top 1% of society. And no, they aren't all stuck-up, disgusting people that we are perceived to be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Congeniality View Post
    #getrekt <3 #tothenextdimension
    Heheh XD

    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    This is the greatest thing I have ever heard you say. I'm proud to have you as a friend
    Thanks Will! I was just watching Interstellar for the first time today and I guess the dimension stuff got to my head. I can assure you that that movie made me realize my noobness in physics (more of a chemistry/bio person )
    Last edited by Sheugokin; 12-30-2016 at 09:04 PM.

  24. #79
    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheugokin View Post
    You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.

    As to answer your questions that I supposedly did not answer. I asked in my previous posts where did I support OP dodge? Can you quote me without manipulating my words?

    The last sentence of the post I quoted here states that I need to answer the questions that you ask. Don't you think it is quite hypocritical (take note here, this is the correct usage of the word) for you to not answer my posts filled with questions? You barely answered any of mine, why should I begin answering yours?

    Just for your information to perhaps underscore your English and your need for improvement in said language: the word "assumption" is used wrong. What assumptions did you make that you now revised? Assumptions are hypotheses based on little to no evidence. So are you saying that your theory on the OPness of dodge has little to no evidence to back it up? Well then, you sold your own argument short if you know what this idiom means. In other words, you aren't completely invested in your ideas.


    Waug, your posts are full of passive-aggressive comments (please use a dictionary with examples to understand what is passive-aggressiveness) and I can assure you that many people here are completely fed up with them.

    You can have your opinions, yes, this is an open forum, but please be aware that others have other opinions and to treat them with such disrespect and a subtle undertone of contempt is very offputting to me and to other viewers. Do not respond telling me to calm down, I'm very calm in fact. I just want you to know to be careful with your words again.
    Again this long worthless post that couldn't answer my simple questions -

    The community complained about dodge for long, now dodge is itself at it's peak (simple - highest dodge than ever now) rather than complaing about the dodge why ya trying to support it? What's the reason?
    For now I'd conclude this in one sentence, if someone or bunch of people complained about high dodge since long then it would be hypocritical for em either to support high dodge now or stating high dodge as something negligible.

    My point PROVED, that I stated about hypocrisy.
    Or still you've answer of the questions?

    Other than the fact, the last posts of yours and I think 90% of your total posts in this thread is just PERSONAL ATTCACT & you're stating my posts as insult? Whereas I mostly talked about the topic to the point and logical.

    You're studying that's good, you should learn to debate in a factual & logical way not by doing personal attack and if you do that doesn't prove anything at the end, you not only loose but also get bad reputation, that's not a good quality of a student.

    If you think my post are to insult others report & let the mods decide even though I don't report posts mostly even if its insult to an extent so I won't report yours don't worry.

    I'd again suggest you to stay calm, cheers
    Last edited by Waug; 12-30-2016 at 10:32 PM.

  25. #80
    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    Again this long worthless post that couldn't answer my simple questions -



    For now I'd conclude this in one sentence, if someone or bunch of people complained about high dodge since long then it would be hypocritical for em either to support high dodge now or stating high dodge as something negligible.

    My point PROVED, that I stated about hypocrisy.
    Or still you've answer of the questions?

    Other than the fact, the last posts of yours and I think 90% of your total posts in this thread is just PERSONAL ATTCACT & you're stating my posts as insult? Whereas I mostly talked about the topic to the point and logical.

    You're studying that's good, you should learn to debate in a factual & logical way not by doing personal attack and if you do that doesn't prove anything at the end, you not only loose but also get bad reputation, that's not a good quality of a student.

    If you think my post are to insult others report & let the mods decide even though I don't report posts mostly even if its insult to an extent so I won't report yours don't worry.

    I'd again suggest you to stay calm, cheers

    That made less sense than my essays, honestly dont know what i read, minus: "cheers"
    nothing lasts forever

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