Guys lets make endgame pvp active again

[Multiverse]

For those commenting on twink PvP and preserving that:

If the endgame PvP was better balanced, what reason would you have for wanting to still PvP at twink levels?

The biggest on that sticks out to me is because you've already invested a lot of gold into it. Are there other reasons?

There are plenty of other reasons to start with, that Twink PvP gives nostalgia to many players and especially that Twink PvP still has a better balance than endgame PvP and that mainly because the damage in endgame PvP is very high, just look at rogues being glass cannons (short example).

Twink PvP has freedom for many players but that has been removed with eye / para gems and awakenings.

The perfect solution will be that the community gets a free choice of what level players want to be, because not everyone wants to play PvP on endgame because simply a huge majority of some players are not interested in the PvP endgame community, weapon choices, fast phrase PvP etc.

Twink PvP you have to look from a different perspective people play more and more partly only because they are more intrigued by the strategic than the strategic at endgame PvP.

I hope this makes it a bit clear. I try to empathize as much as possible with different players in the community about the aspect of endgame / twink PvP although i am no longer active every day because many friends have left the game partly because twink PvP is inactive.

Note: But it can become more active again with the right changes.

[Gouiwaa9000]

Make ss set bonus inactive in combat , this way annoying rogs that hit you with aimed from off your screen and run away wont be such a pain to kill.
( note , i just came back into the game and have minimal gear so i didnt stick around in pvp for long , but i found this extra annoying in the few random rooms i joined )

[Donquixoth]

I don't think PvP will be active like it used to be, even rebalancing will not help that much.

[Nightwatched]

For those commenting on twink PvP and preserving that:

If the endgame PvP was better balanced, what reason would you have for wanting to still PvP at twink levels?

The biggest on that sticks out to me is because you've already invested a lot of gold into it. Are there other reasons?

Yes a primary reason is the investments on twink gear with para that have significantly dropped prices but the other MAIN reasons are that:

--> From the game from beginning till now.. With higher levels the classes meant become stronger at their OWN respective traits.for eg: the deadly crits of rogues.
(at high levels).

But the lower levels the main spark to pvp came from :
1.) can buy cheap gear.
This is major because MANY people who had less gold still could join twink levels and be active participants.

2.) it had a great trait which was TIMING and NOT PURE STATS FROM EXPENSIVE GEAR ALONE.
Now rogues with LV 60 artifacts and the best awake gear which they spent about 100 of millions to obtain reflect in pvp.


3.) BALANCE:
It basically is more riches = more kills mentality which is NOT WRONG... BUT.. we are only asking to make a zone which is truly balanced WHICH TILL NOW I FELT WAS FROM LOW LEVEL PVP.

The death of twinking started from the intro of munchmouth and the enabling of pet slotting..
I remember clearly. The pvp which was fun for ALL even the rich players slowly started MOVING to people who could afford whats been releasing in continuous updates and releases but somehow all of them seemed to be against twinking for what i feel... Ehich was the beat time in AL for many.

[Jawr]

For those commenting on twink PvP and preserving that:

If the endgame PvP was better balanced, what reason would you have for wanting to still PvP at twink levels?

The biggest on that sticks out to me is because you've already invested a lot of gold into it. Are there other reasons?

Well PvP on twink levels is more old school I mean 11-16 bracket is very popular also some people love fast killing and some really don't on high level damage is too big and one combo you are dead, but on twink is more fun and more enjoyable, and if you look in game there are a lot of twinks, level 11-16 bracket is so popular for years and I know so many guilds and people who wait for something to happen and they are ready to back but unfortunately there isn't any gear, I would like removing FFA and just let TDM and CTF again be playable. Also I would like to see leaderboard get back and after every season it gets reset, don't make every class top 25 make mix of classes and that mix of top 25 gets the banner I don't want to see 75 people every season with banner walking around..
Also there are many people obsessed with their kill/death ratio and thats also the reason twinkin is popular, also the players are more interesting I really love twinkin I remember we would clash guild vs guild for 3h+ So many enemies so much fun and yea it's way cheaper than endgame.

[Gouiwaa9000]

For those commenting on twink PvP and preserving that:

if the endgame PvP was better balanced, what reason would you have for wanting to still PvP at twink levels?

The biggest on that sticks out to me is because you've already invested a lot of gold into it. Are there other reasons?

I used to twink because of the lack of new gear there( long time ago ). I could buy a set for 900k and slowly improve my stats and not worry about an expansion devaluing everything i own to like 20% of its original value . Also compared to end game , prices were way lower so everyone was more or less equally geared - build , timing and skill actually mattered . Current endgame pvp is way to expensive for most players so they just stay away from it , why play if you have no odds of winning ?

i suggested this before but.. introducing a matchmaker based on stats instead of level + adding scaling to awakenings ( 0 for items under lvl16 - 100% for anything above 66 ) will pretty much solve most of the standing problems - the rest will be pure class balance issues .

[|Ares|]

From what I'm hearing that wouldn't be enough.

I hear a lot of sentiment of PvP imbalance being:

1) General PvP Imbalance. I mean you're all balanced to fight mobs with millions of health, not players with 10k
2) Class Imbalance. Roles of Tank, Damage, Support don't really translate into PvP
3) The haves vs have nots. This is based on what gear you're using (especially really good procs or rare things like Speed Set)
4) Awakenings on top of #3. Even if you "have" you may not have the best version of that have


I'll start some brainstorming here, maybe turn this into a greater thread later. What skill adjustments would make PvP more fair, assuming we remove the heal and damage reduction that are currently in place?

I agree that roles coming with support/damage don't really aply into Arcane pvp. Considering how at old caps (for example 56 cap) where mages had their spotlight because of Immortal gun you would see 0 of rogue accuracy in clashes or even random rooms.
I think that current biggest problem in pvp is the armor, at 61-63 bracket where most of the pvp stuff is happening right now, rogue might stack up to 5k+ armor with 2,5k+ damage input. With the armor stack at 66lvl where base armor is around 4800 considering you use nightmare armor/helmet or more than 5000 if you use tainted set rogue loses the meaning of glass cannon. Add the % armor stack in awakenings and rogue will easily hit 6k+ armor with 3000 damage. I already feel sorry for mages about it lol
The over armor stacked twinks with heroic dreambot and armor awakenings also cause most of the old twink brackets to die, due to clashes taking so long to finish I guess (correct me if I'm wrong).
I would suggest to give the community balanced weapons like armor/gun/sword that might have similar buffs/procs but does not really affect gameplay hard. It could be newly released arcane weapon content. Look at arcane ring for how long it was in use by people until the haste set came. Still even if you had speed you would not be able to instantly kill the arcane ring user (due to tankyness). For the future I would suggest removal of armor in pvp procs/buffs (especially on the weapons).

[|Ares|]

Also Vroom, I believe that not just me but more people would love to experience Dev hosted Pvp Tournaments with some cool banners like it had a place in 2014
Many people also suggesting the seasonal pvp Leaderboard. Why not implementing FFA as the another category for it? That would surely attract more people to play it.
I also believe that monitoring the leaderboards wouldnt be such problem just to check from to time to time how numbers are changing.
Yes guys, it's what people actually want!

[Suentous PO]

Why twink?
It's fun. You can become a better player by knowing how all classes work @ dif levels. Sometimes they are great event runners. Some only run certain pve maps to farm specifics. Some specific weps/gear are fun and level restricted.

I've honestly wondered at times why sts seems to dissuade us from twinks? Even back in pl it was this way.

[WilliamTheFighter]

Pvp is becoming active at 66. Getting matches almost all days. Gear is cheap and who wasnt 66 is lvling to come pvp at this cap. Insta kill proc helps to destroy whole tank stack happening at 66. But those weps proc its too rare, and the player must be exactly on the pack to absorbe it..this make it almost impossible its use. Moreover the time of packs its TOO SHORT not even time to charge axe (for example) that pack will disappear. This make the proc almost useless.
If pvp 66 its balanced? Well still need more time to say that. For sure mages are way too weak compared to the other classes.
Lowest damage class
Lowest hp class
Lowest armor class
Lowest crit class
Just enter a tdm map to notice 65% are warriors 30% rogues and mages soo rare, almpst none.
Let mages be highest damage class as it was 41 cap.


-Will


Inviato dal mio SM-J510FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Kershy]

For those commenting on twink PvP and preserving that:

If the endgame PvP was better balanced, what reason would you have for wanting to still PvP at twink levels?

The biggest on that sticks out to me is because you've already invested a lot of gold into it. Are there other reasons?

IMO I like low lvl twinks (6-12) because rogues can't kill you with just 1 aimed shot which happens a lot on higher levels.. right now if you see a fight between 2 rogues you see them hiding behind the rocks and the one who shoots the aimed properly is the one who gets the kill.. for me that's not PvP at all... It's not even fun... On low level (I played at 12) you had a real 1v1 fight (2 rogues) that could last several minutes... It was all skill based and not stat based.. but also awakenings were not out when I played there. The gems/jewels are not an issue tbh.. I could fight any rogue with Para/Eye and I had only grand fire gems.. Hope you understand my POV.

[Azerothraven]

What about making it so you can’t awaken any items below level 16 so people can still Do twinking below those level and but still allow end game pvp with awaken. That way rich and poor can chose which they want

Personally I prefer end game pvp than twink since it allows your main to do pvp aps. I also think leaderboard for pvp should be back ( with updates so no more cheaters ).

[PsychoNuke]

What if we made special items that were PvP only and these items rebalanced classes (Aimed Shot no longer dealing 30k+)?

Could that help endgame PvP?

Absolutely yes, 1000 times yes

From what I'm hearing that wouldn't be enough.

I hear a lot of sentiment of PvP imbalance being:

1) General PvP Imbalance. I mean you're all balanced to fight mobs with millions of health, not players with 10k
2) Class Imbalance. Roles of Tank, Damage, Support don't really translate into PvP
3) The haves vs have nots. This is based on what gear you're using (especially really good procs or rare things like Speed Set)
4) Awakenings on top of #3. Even if you "have" you may not have the best version of that have


I'll start some brainstorming here, maybe turn this into a greater thread later. What skill adjustments would make PvP more fair, assuming we remove the heal and damage reduction that are currently in place?

My opinion for you consideration:

1. General PvP imbalance is chained to Class imbalanced. I am fine if tanks have 10k health and heavy armor, but then it should be limited to tanks and in return they should have low dmg. Same way mage and rogue should have their own strengths and weakness. When it comes to balanced PVP the approach should be more Skill based instead of Gear based. Health/Armor and Skills should be balanced in a way that any class can go against any class.
   
   I totally understand that from your point of view implementing this on 2 possible scenario: 1v1 and group play, can be a challenge but I know your logical brain is better than mine .
   
   ..And Yes PVP should not turn into a boss fight, where a whole team is trying to put down 2 Warriors with exceptionally OP gear, who btw wipes the whole group and laughs in the end because hey! they got the blings
   
   
2. I think all buffs should spawn in map. The location can be specific but it should be a random buff every time, or people will start camping.
   
   
3. Make PVP specific Gems/Jewels available at a Token vendor. This can replace awakenings.
   
   
4. I stopped PVP because of Ganging. There are guild(s) that enter pvp in group just to farm kills or in some cases to feed their ego. I just leave the map when they enter, happened so much that I quit playing.
   Solution: A smart pvp system that auto-balance the teams based on classes. Make system decide who joins which side of the team, and how many same class players can one side have.

[Slim.]

What if we made special items that were PvP only and these items rebalanced classes (Aimed Shot no longer dealing 30k+)?

Could that help endgame PvP?

Yeah why not

[Slim.]

And yes endgame seems like to getting more active

[Xxsoifongxx]

What if we made special items that were PvP only and these items rebalanced classes (Aimed Shot no longer dealing 30k+)?

Could that help endgame PvP?

No rogues were made for this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gouiwaa9000]

No rogues were made for this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure , as long as a well timed shield/tank heal will spell your death. Its ok to deal massive damage while playing as a assassin , but at the expense of defense - introduction of ss , nekro , glowstick , sets that make its possible to hit over 5k armor made rogs into glass cannons but without the glass .

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Let's keep this conversation going!

If abilities were to be rebalanced in PvP, what are the current issues with abilities?

It would be most helpful if for any ability you could give me the following:
1) Ability Name
2) Role: What is the purpose of the ability
3) Problems: What are the current issues with the ability (feel free to be as in depth here as needed)
4) Suggested Changes: Optional. You do not have to have a suggestion in order to list out a problem, but feel free to list any ideas you do have. Ultimately this will be our job to fix it XP

Examples
1) Ability: Axe Throw
2) Role: Warrior Single Target Damage + Bring a single enemy into a bad position
3) Problems: Axe Throw can't be a good single target damage skill because the pull is too important for PvP (high damage + pull is OP). The Pull has issues with latency (pulling behind rocks) and it feels bad that the Warrior stops to pull people in.

1) Ability: Aimed Shot
2) Role: High Damage Single Target attack
3) Problems: It does too much damage. This is exaggerated by the fact that Rogues are so squishy so they feel like they *need* this high amount of damage.

1) Ability: Curse
2) Role: Enemy Debuff, make them attack at their own risk
3) Problems: No one uses Curse. The player version of Curse is too weak and the calculations are silly (dealing 5000 damage returns as much as dealing 50 damage)

Note: If you use any player related stats (damage, hp, armor) let's start at Level 66 only. This will just get everyone talking on the same page and about the same problems. I want endgame PvP to be the best PvP in the game first. Then we can talk twinking.


Skills reference in case you forgot
Warrior:
Axe Throw
Chest Splitter
Horn of Renew
Juggernaut
Rallying Cry
Skyward Smash
Vengeful Blood
Windmill


Rogue:
Aimed Shot
Combat Medic
Entangling Trap
Noxious Bolt
Razor Shield
Shadow Piercer
Shadow Veil
Shadowstorm


Sorcerer:
Arcane Shield
Curse
Fireball
Frost Bolt
Gale Force
Lifegiver
Lightning Strike
Time Shift

[Xxsoifongxx]

Let's keep this conversation going!

If abilities were to be rebalanced in PvP, what are the current issues with abilities?

It would be most helpful if for any ability you could give me the following:
1) Ability Name
2) Role: What is the purpose of the ability
3) Problems: What are the current issues with the ability (feel free to be as in depth here as needed)
4) Suggested Changes: Optional. You do not have to have a suggestion in order to list out a problem, but feel free to list any ideas you do have. Ultimately this will be our job to fix it XP

Examples
1) Ability: Axe Throw
2) Role: Warrior Single Target Damage + Bring a single enemy into a bad position
3) Problems: Axe Throw can't be a good single target damage skill because the pull is too important for PvP (high damage + pull is OP). The Pull has issues with latency (pulling behind rocks) and it feels bad that the Warrior stops to pull people in.

1) Ability: Aimed Shot
2) Role: High Damage Single Target attack
3) Problems: It does too much damage. This is exaggerated by the fact that Rogues are so squishy so they feel like they *need* this high amount of damage.

1) Ability: Curse
2) Role: Enemy Debuff, make them attack at their own risk
3) Problems: No one uses Curse. The player version of Curse is too weak and the calculations are silly (dealing 5000 damage returns as much as dealing 50 damage)

Note: If you use any player related stats (damage, hp, armor) let's start at Level 66 only. This will just get everyone talking on the same page and about the same problems. I want endgame PvP to be the best PvP in the game first. Then we can talk twinking.


Skills reference in case you forgot
Warrior:
Axe Throw
Chest Splitter
Horn of Renew
Juggernaut
Rallying Cry
Skyward Smash
Vengeful Blood
Windmill


Rogue:
Aimed Shot
Combat Medic
Entangling Trap
Noxious Bolt
Razor Shield
Shadow Piercer
Shadow Veil
Shadowstorm


Sorcerer:
Arcane Shield
Curse
Fireball
Frost Bolt
Gale Force
Lifegiver
Lightning Strike
Time Shift

There isn’t any problems every should know their roles as each character rogues kill , mages support, tank cover .. the only problem is everyone wants to kill so they say it’s unbalanced.... the reason pvp was empty was because the gears were too expensive and leveling up was too hard now that’s fixed u can find full matches all day. All the good players I play with I never hear them complaining that it’s unbalanced.

So please no de buffing of characters please ty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eclipserog]

Let's keep this conversation going!

If abilities were to be rebalanced in PvP, what are the current issues with abilities?

It would be most helpful if for any ability you could give me the following:
1) Ability Name
2) Role: What is the purpose of the ability
3) Problems: What are the current issues with the ability (feel free to be as in depth here as needed)
4) Suggested Changes: Optional. You do not have to have a suggestion in order to list out a problem, but feel free to list any ideas you do have. Ultimately this will be our job to fix it XP

Examples
1) Ability: Axe Throw
2) Role: Warrior Single Target Damage + Bring a single enemy into a bad position
3) Problems: Axe Throw can't be a good single target damage skill because the pull is too important for PvP (high damage + pull is OP). The Pull has issues with latency (pulling behind rocks) and it feels bad that the Warrior stops to pull people in.

1) Ability: Aimed Shot
2) Role: High Damage Single Target attack
3) Problems: It does too much damage. This is exaggerated by the fact that Rogues are so squishy so they feel like they *need* this high amount of damage.

1) Ability: Curse
2) Role: Enemy Debuff, make them attack at their own risk
3) Problems: No one uses Curse. The player version of Curse is too weak and the calculations are silly (dealing 5000 damage returns as much as dealing 50 damage)

Note: If you use any player related stats (damage, hp, armor) let's start at Level 66 only. This will just get everyone talking on the same page and about the same problems. I want endgame PvP to be the best PvP in the game first. Then we can talk twinking.


Skills reference in case you forgot
Warrior:
Axe Throw
Chest Splitter
Horn of Renew
Juggernaut
Rallying Cry
Skyward Smash
Vengeful Blood
Windmill


Rogue:
Aimed Shot
Combat Medic
Entangling Trap
Noxious Bolt
Razor Shield
Shadow Piercer
Shadow Veil
Shadowstorm


Sorcerer:
Arcane Shield
Curse
Fireball
Frost Bolt
Gale Force
Lifegiver
Lightning Strike
Time Shift

Ability: Arcane Shield
Role: Protects sorcerer from damage
Problem: In my opinion the formula of how the absorbed damage is calculated is outdated and if there’s any changes the least I think should be done is incorporate the DEX attribute into this formula.
You may ask why? This would allow mages to take a more offensive role in PVP as DEX provides damage and critical. To compensate the mage’s health would be lower than the traditional INT/STR builds we see today.

Ability: Aimed Shot
Role: Hard hitting single target skill
Problems: The problem is that it does hit too hard. I think that reducing the crit buff to 5% per stack (max stacks 3) would be great as since we’re seeing crit values soar it wouldn’t be too much of a dramatic nerf. The other thing is to reduce the armor reduction, I believe it stands at a 10% debuff? I think this as well should be reduced reasonably but of course different values should be tested beforehand.

Ability: Lightning Strike
Role: Single target skill
Problem: I think the only thing this skill lacks is the ability to reduce armor as the other 2 classes do have a reliable source of armor reduction.

Ability: Razor Shield
Role: Defensive skill, reduces damage and provides buff/immunity
Problem: The main problem with this skill is that it doesn’t do enough anymore, the 10% damage reduction from the mastery is nice but since pets such as Nekro and Glowstik overshadow this it’s not very useful. I don’t think that raising the value of the damage reduction drastically would benefit neither of the other two classes but I think that adding life steal to razor shield could help increase the survivability of rogues.

Ability: Lifegiver
Role: Aoe heal
Problems: The mana regen isn’t very good.

Ability: Curse
Role: Debuffs team, reflects damage
Problems: Alongside the fact that it doesn’t reflect much damage (apart from DOTs) I think that adding the ability to debuff crit (I know the mastery does this but it’s only 10%) by a significant amount (10-20% + mastery) would be great as it definitely would stop hard hitting crits from rogues and possibly mages too.

Ability: Combat Medic
Role: Self heal
Problem: The rogue heal could possibly be reworked as this definitely is the weakest heal, I know we don’t want every heal to do the same but in my opinion in a clash environment this doesn’t offer the rogue much use.

Ability: Frost Bolt
Role: Single target skill and aoe dot
Problems: The pure damage of the skill is great but a majority of the upgrades don’t work in pvp, the only useful one is the DOT.

Ability: Gale Force
Role: Aoe skill
Problems: This skill definitely has one of the most useful masteries but I think that if mages are having to use up a slot for this skill to survive that the cool down should be reduced, 5.5 seconds is pretty long as it doesn’t provide the ability to pressure the opposing team.

Ability: Noxious Bolt
Role: Single target hit with aoe DOT
Problems: This definitely used to be a good skill for rogues but has been since replaced with razor shield which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The problem for me is that it doesn’t offer much damage anymore and rogues can be a glass cannon without it. Plus DOTs are easily removed.

Ability: Shadow Storm Shot, Entangling Traps, Shadow Veil
Role: Various
Problem: These skills are obsolete in PvP and don’t offer much, they never did. I think it’d be nice to see them be usable. Some people may argue that not every skill is for PvP but as a Mage in the past (61 cap) I was using a 7 skill build in pvp and one of the top competitors in that era.

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this reply, I can’t add anything about warriors since I have very little experience with the class in general.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk