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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Talon Proc Nerf

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    Default Talon Proc Nerf

    To begin with, this new talon proc is a bit too much and is an indirect nerf to the bird class. Rhino's could kill an elite talon bird easily with the str axe set pre proc nerf, but now the scales have been unbalanced since nearly every class (sorry foxes) can kill a talon bird now. 15 seconds is outrageously long for the talon cooldown considering the fact that birds were ALREADY squishy with the proc down, and now this additional 15 second cooldown makes a bird useless and I'll explain why. First, the talon proc (pre proc) was what kept birds toe-to-toe with classes that were tanky or had high heals because it made them be able to withstand damage while compensating for the talon sets low damage being done. Now a mage with a non enchanted elite int set can stay full hp as i (fully enchanted bird with elite talon set) go in for a nuke while still being able to nuke me down in 1 combo. I could understand a nerf allowing for the talon to only proc in combat, but with this cooldown in place a bird would have to run for 15 seconds to get their proc back up to have a chance at killing another class. Either increase the talon's damage to be more competitive against tankier or healing classes, remove or reduce the cooldown restriction set on talon, or nerf the other set procs. Many will begin to complain about Rhino or mage with axe set being too tanky, or int mages with the elite int wand set doing too much damage on top of how much they heal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGotenks View Post
    To begin with, this new talon proc is a bit too much and is an indirect nerf to the bird class. Rhino's could kill an elite talon bird easily with the str axe set pre proc nerf, but now the scales have been unbalanced since nearly every class (sorry foxes) can kill a talon bird now. 15 seconds is outrageously long for the talon cooldown considering the fact that birds were ALREADY squishy with the proc down, and now this additional 15 second cooldown makes a bird useless and I'll explain why. First, the talon proc (pre proc) was what kept birds toe-to-toe with classes that were tanky or had high heals because it made them be able to withstand damage while compensating for the talon sets low damage being done. Now a mage with a non enchanted elite int set can stay full hp as i (fully enchanted bird with elite talon set) go in for a nuke while still being able to nuke me down in 1 combo. I could understand a nerf allowing for the talon to only proc in combat, but with this cooldown in place a bird would have to run for 15 seconds to get their proc back up to have a chance at killing another class. Either increase the talon's damage to be more competitive against tankier or healing classes, remove or reduce the cooldown restriction set on talon, or nerf the other set procs. Many will begin to complain about Rhino or mage with axe set being too tanky, or int mages with the elite int wand set doing too much damage on top of how much they heal.
    Bird has a high heal too... and they are not squishy. They have like 100% dodge. Stop playing like a bear lol

    It's time for people to understand nerfing or buffing an item anyone can use doesn't nerf any particular class... when all classes are choosing to use talon sets because it was so far superior to others, it needed nerfed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    Bird has a high heal too... and they are not squishy. They have like 100% dodge. Stop playing like a bear lol

    It's time for people to understand nerfing or buffing an item anyone can use doesn't nerf any particular class... when all classes are choosing to use talon sets because it was so far superior to others, it needed nerfed.

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    I'm assuming you're not fully geared with a fully enchanted 6-piece elite set. Yes this does nerf bird class because it changes their playstyle. Birds have a 16.25 second heal cooldown compared mage & rhino's low heal cooldown, and in order to compete with their high heals that talon proc is put into place. Putting a high cooldown on the talon will have birds resorting to straight up running for 15 seconds instead of kiting, and I don't believe thats how their playstyle should be. With that said, only allowing the talon to proc in combat but removing the cooldown will allow for birds to kite. And I wouldn't comment on any L105 pvp feedback if I wasn't fully geared, as you should the same. The mages elite wand proc gives them a 500 mana/second + 500 health/second + bonus movespeed pool that is more likely to proc since wand has 0.6 speed, so yes, this can make them be able tank hard nukes to the face. Rhino is tanky with low heal second cooldown. There's a lot of misinformation being spread on the forums about "talon proc op pls nerf1!!1" yet these are the same people who aren't geared. I was the third person in the game to obtain an elite 6 piece dex set, and the majority of people I fought were undergeared, so of course it makes sense that they would complain about a proc being op while not being exposed to the other sets. More people have been getting elite sets due to the recent amulet event, so people's perspectives will change about what's op and what not.
    Last edited by SuperGotenks; 04-26-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGotenks View Post
    I'm assuming you're not fully geared with a fully enchanted 6-piece elite set. Yes this does nerf bird class because it changes their playstyle. Birds have a 16.25 second heal cooldown compared mage & rhino's low heal cooldown. Bears have high tankiness due to high armor and damage. And I wouldn't comment on any L105 pvp feedback if I wasn't fully geared, as you should the same. The mages elite wand proc gives them a 500 mana/second + 500 health/second + bonus movespeed pool that is more likely to proc since wand has 0.6 speed, so yes, this can make them be able tank hard nukes to the face. Rhino is tanky with low heal second cooldown. There's a lot of misinformation being spread on the forums about "talon proc op pls nerf1!!1" yet these are the same people who aren't geared. I was the third person in the game to obtain an elite 6 piece dex set, and the majority of people I fought were undergeared, so of course it makes sense that they would complain about a proc being op while not being exposed to the other sets. More people have been getting elite sets due to the recent amulet event, so people's perspectives will change about what's op and what not.
    Gz on having a set. But i don't need 1 to have common sense. If a mage can have the same proc that got nerfed, it was all classes, not just bird. Maybe you didn't play as a bird should to start with and just need to adapt, from what your saying your approach to pvp was similar to the way a bear should play. Birds are a damage class, not a tank class. It's supposed to be squishy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    Gz on having a set. But i don't need 1 to have common sense. If a mage can have the same proc that got nerfed, it was all classes, not just bird. Maybe you didn't play as a bird should to start with and just need to adapt, from what your saying your approach to pvp was similar to the way a bear should play. Birds are a damage class, not a tank class. It's supposed to be squishy.

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    I don't think you should be commenting on my skill since I've beaten you multiple times in pvp. The point is, birds don't do enough damage to nuke through mages heal and rhino tank/heal. The talon nerf put things way out of balance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGotenks View Post
    I don't think you should be commenting on my skill since I've beaten you multiple times in pvp. The point is, birds don't do enough damage to nuke through mages heal and rhino tank/heal. The talon nerf put things way out of balance.
    An item is an item, a class is a class....
    If the classes can use the exact same weapon with the exact same proc, the item proc/damage/looks are all irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    An item is an item, a class is a class....
    If the classes can use the exact same weapon with the exact same proc, the item proc/damage/looks are all irrelevant.

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    thats like saying 61 mage isnt op because other classes can use lilith :<
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    No it's really not... mage has a combo from the proc with lilith set and other classes do not...
    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    thats like saying 61 mage isnt op because other classes can use lilith :<
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    No it's really not... mage has a combo from the proc with lilith set and other classes do not...

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    What about bird, fox, and rhino?
    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    What about bird, fox, and rhino?

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    Clearly you've never played anything but endgame.. When have you seen an int bird, int rhino, or int fox viable at most pvp caps? And once again, I don't think you should comment on any feedback because what you're doing is creating false information for the devs to interpret. You obviously lack any understanding of the current cap's pvp balance since I've done multiple 1v1s, 2v2s, and 3v3s against all elite geared teams using varying class setups (something you haven't had the chance to because you don't have a set). And clearly you and I have different definitions of common sense; nerfing the dex set would directly hurt the bird class the most because that's the only viable set a bird can use. I'm speaking for the birds who'd actually like to play with the set they were originally intended to use instead of having to resort to using other sets.
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    Dude i was being sarcastic genius... I've played 15, 56,61,66,71, and endgame since 76 cap. My point was they used a horrible example because lilith mage is op, but it's a completely different proc type. Talon adds 1k armor, that in amd of itself is over a 50% armor buff that every other set doesn't have.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGotenks View Post
    Clearly you've never played anything but endgame.. When have you seen an int bird, int rhino, or int fox viable at most pvp caps? And once again, I don't think you should comment on any feedback because what you're doing is creating false information for the devs to interpret. You obviously lack any understanding of the current cap's pvp balance since I've done multiple 1v1s, 2v2s, and 3v3s against all elite geared teams using varying class setups (something you haven't had the chance to because you don't have a set). And clearly you and I have different definitions of common sense; nerfing the dex set would directly hurt the bird class the most because that's the only viable set a bird can use. I'm speaking for the birds who'd actually like to play with the set they were originally intended to use instead of having to resort to using other sets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    horrible example
    analogy.

    ill stop derailing now, sorry lawl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    analogy.

    ill stop derailing now, sorry lawl
    I fail to see how the word example doesn't work... perhaps you should stop raging and think before telling people they don't know what they are saying... finding a synonym for a word i use doesn't make anything i say less correct

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    Is the talon auto range 12m? If not, then the cooldown nerf in theory shouldn't affect the class that heavily. This is because the archer class is designed to work from the 10-12m range primarily, with fallback mechanics to help it re-establish that distance. Thus, I feel that the talon proc nerf, if the talon has always been under 12m auto range, is justified in order to secure the identity of the class.

    Hope this helps!

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    That's a really good point from a class point of view.

    All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons. And that I don't need a set to see what everyone is wearing and use a little common sense. Therefore a nerf is/was justified. Another 85 cap with everyone in dex sets isn't what i want for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Congeniality View Post
    Is the talon auto range 12m? If not, then the cooldown nerf in theory shouldn't affect the class that heavily. This is because the archer class is designed to work from the 10-12m range primarily, with fallback mechanics to help it re-establish that distance. Thus, I feel that the talon proc nerf, if the talon has always been under 12m auto range, is justified in order to secure the identity of the class.

    Hope this helps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    That's a really good point from a class point of view.

    All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons. And that I don't need a set to see what everyone is wearing and use a little common sense. Therefore a nerf is/was justified. Another 85 cap with everyone in dex sets isn't what i want for sure.

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    Read the bold line again and then read this again -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    We will see about balance once everyone has sets. Hard to tell as of yet. But to say it's balanced when all of maybe 6 people that pvp have sets lol is kinda pre-mature

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    When someone else does it, it's "pre-mature" but when it comes to you, it's common sense, kinda contradiction. Even though OP is the one who has set since pretty early phase and do pvp.

    I don't wanna provide any feedback right now, also because I'm keeping my hope for the 2h weaps specially bow. BUT what I can clearly say is that, it was too early to make a decision and nerf talon set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons.
    Dex set always have been favorite for all classes and there's solid reasons behind it. STR and INT sets ain't viable such way for other classes. Every class can use dex set and can do well, but for example if int set gets op, what happens? not clear? every other class vanishes and everyone uses a mage just like what happened in early 80 cap, why because int set wouldn't be viable for other classes that way.

    Also IDK where do u get such stats (imaginary axis? just like the contradictions?) - 90%, far superior etc, what I noticed like 1 mage i saw with talon set and few str bears and few birds, pre-nerf.
    Last edited by Waug; 04-27-2018 at 10:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    Read the bold line again and then read this again -



    When someone else does it, it's "pre-mature" but when it comes to you, it's common sense, kinda contradiction. Even though OP is the one who has set since pretty early phase and do pvp.

    I don't wanna provide and feedback right now, also because I'm keeping my hope for the 2h weaps specially bow. BUT what I can clearly say is that, it was too early to make a decision and nerf talon set.



    Dex set always have been favorite for all classes and there's solid reasons behind it. STR and INT sets ain't valuable such way for other classes. Every class can use dex set and can do well, but for example if int set gets op, what happens? not clear? every other class vanishes and everyone uses a mage just like early 80 cap, why because int set wouldn't be viable for other classes that way.

    Also IDK where do u get such stats (imaginary axis? just like the contradictions?) - 90%, far superior etc, what I noticed like 1 mage i saw with talon set and few str bears and few birds, pre-nerf.
    LOL quoting what i say from before people had sets and after people had sets trying to make me look bad? It even still says in one of my posts all of 6 people had sets at THAT time, stop living in the past. Now dozens all have dex sets, for the talon proc. #FACT

    P.S. Kanital ate mages 80 cap, but he knew his class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    LOL quoting what i say from before people had sets and after people had sets trying to make me look bad? It even still says in one of my posts all of 6 people had sets at THAT time, stop living in the past. Now dozens all have dex sets, for the talon proc. #FACT

    P.S. Kanital ate mages 80 cap, but he knew his class.

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    Talon nerf thread 4-24-2018
    Your post - 4-20-2018

    Nothing drastically changed in these 4 days.

    Let me correct you again - kanital 'ate' YOU at 80. Whatever the case is that doesn't change the basic facts that int bear, bird ain't viable the way Dex mages, bears are.
    Last edited by Waug; 04-27-2018 at 11:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    Talon nerf thread 4-24-2018
    Your post - 4-20-2018

    Nothing drastically changed in these 4 days.

    Let me correct you again - kanital 'ate' YOU at 80.
    Haha you removed "any decent bird" before you got owned lol

    You mean nothing drastically changed besides dozens of people getting sets? The exact thing i said needed to happen before any evaluations of balance? I'm not sure if you're trying to embarrass yourself or point out my genius

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