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Thread: Endgame Fox PvP: Walie's Take

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    Senior Member Congeniality's Avatar
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    Default Endgame Fox PvP: Walie's Take

    Hello all and welcome to my take on the state of endgame fox PvP. For those of who don't know, I have been playing fox almost exclusively since 76 cap, and thus I believe I have a good sense of the relative state of the class from cap to cap.

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    To prevent this post from coming across as negative, I want to first highlight what I like about fox this cap so far:

    Positive Feedback:
    • Fox has decent damage output

    • The Volta Dagger Set compliments the strengths of fox well

    • The performance gap between old and new foxes is highlighted by the increased length of fights


    These three things make the veteran fox player very happy in this new cap. Mastery of the ranger is more rewarding than ever as your mobility allows you to dash around fights unlike any other class, while also having clear weaknesses that make the game challenging.

    However, there are a few things that inhibit the fox player from being able to play the class the way it is designed, while also being effective in PvP. I say this because of the current state of the Volta Dagger Set vs. the Hawken's Talon Set.

    In my mind, the fox is designed to dash in (ik pretty obvious, bear with me) and do high burst damage to a target. In theory, if the target is not expecting this damage, it will most likely die. In order to play this playstyle, I argue that the Volta Dagger Set is the best set that suits the classes strengths. However, I find that the proc on the set, although useful, pails in comparison to the health buff from Hawken's Talon.

    I find that nearly every fight I go into as a fox, I am doomed to do less than any other dex class because of my lacking of the health buff (Hawken's Talon proc), and thus lack of damage output over time (time being alive to do damage).

    That being said, I understand that walking the line between making the class a one-shot unstoppable machine and a balanced class open to counter-play is extremely hard with the fox (I felt like this was needed so when I state my wishes for change it doesn't seem ungrateful for the job Cinco has already done, which is honestly very good). This is because the burst damage should be enough to kill a healer or damage dealer, but not enough to be unbeatable.

    Leaving that aside for now (we will circle back to it later), there is the secondary issue of the with fox this cap, that being the Evasion buff. I know this has been talked about quite enough since foxes release, but I promise to have a different take on it than most.

    Right now, the duration of the fox buff is 10 seconds, with a 15 second cooldown. That means that 2/3 of the time fighting as a fox is spent with bonus dodge chance. However, due to the increased length of fights this cap due to higher health pools and lower damage relative to that health, foxes are almost always doomed to die 12-13 seconds into a fight.

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    I would like to highlight that having the "unroot" on a buff is actually good for the identity of the class. By having the class vulnerable to stuns, it helps solidify its role as an assassin, which I am all for.

    Thus, in terms of the skills at the foxes disposal, I believe that fox needs either 1, more damage to be able to kill other classes within 10 seconds, or two, a lengthened Evasion duration with a proportionally longer cooldown for it to survive fights longer.

    Thus, I believe that the issue at hand with relative fox balance at endgame is two fold, one, the Volta Dagger Set could use tweaking to make it a more viable option in PvP, OR two, the evasion buff needs working with to either make the duration longer with a longer cooldown, or more damage put into the skill kit to better allow the fox to do damage (damage buff on fury?).

    Coming back to the issue of fox balancing, I believe that the best way to tweak the Volta Dagger Set to be better with foxes without making it exploitable by other classes, is to buff the proc. Now although all classes can use the proc, only the fox can hit it consistently within every fight. This is because fox is the only class that has two dashes, a pull, and two slows to better jump on top of its opponents. This allows a fox to get off tons of autos which makes the proc much more easy to use in battle.

    Thus, by buffing the proc to perhaps give a 2-2.5k temporary bonus health (I suggest this because the mechanic is already in the game with Hawken's Talon) I believe it would make fox much more balanced while having the rest of PvP classes remain relatively unchanged.

    Thank you to all those who read this, and I hope for a possible response from Cinco, even if it is that he is unwilling to make changes (which I would totally understand).

    Cheers,
    -Walie
    Last edited by Congeniality; 06-10-2018 at 04:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Fwend's Avatar
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    Fox has long been the class to avoid.

    As a farmer myself, I prefer the classes with the most aoe damage: mage, bird and bear class.

    Unfortunately the fox and rhino class are useless against a group of enemies in pve. One on one they do alright.

    Pvp wise, the rhino class was nerfed so much, during the 100 cap and the introduction of pure stat guns. Rhino was the most over powered class. One on one.

    But again the fox class was left behind, and again in this cap.

    I truly hope more fox class players do speak up for this underwhelming class and express their concerns.

    Honestly it is difficult for other players to comment about the fox class when they prefer to use a mage or bird class.


    I would rather walk with a friend in the dark, than alone in the light.
    -Helen Keller

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    Nice write up.

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    Forum Adept NukeDragon's Avatar
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    I think like at the 10th point on like a jump or howl it should add a destun or something to that effect. Would definitely help fox out a lot I think.

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    Sup Bois

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    yea nerf talon sets

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    Senior Member 3pc's Avatar
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    Fox has never been good at endgame, during this 105 cap they have a chance with volta dagger set but only if the proc lands and stays close. Fox has only somewhat pro abilities at only twinking levels.

    ELITE

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    Senior Member Congeniality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3pc View Post
    Fox has never been good at endgame, during this 105 cap they have a chance with volta dagger set but only if the proc lands and stays close. Fox has only somewhat pro abilities at only twinking levels.
    You are right, it has never truly been relatively "good" in comparison to the other classes, but it has been viable as seen in 76 and 77 cap. This was mostly due to the strength of Savage set and the way Lustrous Dagger set worked with the fox skill kit. I'm just hoping to perhaps get small quality of life changes to help the class feel a little more rewarding to play in comparison to those using the talon set.

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    Forum Adept Absolize's Avatar
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    +1 For me, I myself as a fox/rhino player of many years can understand the difficulties of using fox because of dying so fast. I feel this would be a nice balance and make fox a really nice class to use. Great idea, Walie!

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    Walie... how come when myself and another endgame fox said this exact same thing about fox evasion skill you disagreed with us? Saying that the 5 seconds of vulnerability was what made fox challenging and different. Was that a "you're jilsponie" thing? Because we not only pointed out the exact same problem, but gave the same fix... But yeah you're right. I'd like to point out though this could have been fixed already, had you just kept quiet while you weren't even playing playing anyway.

    Sent from my SM-J727T1 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jilsponie View Post
    Walie... how come when myself and another endgame fox said this exact same thing about fox evasion skill you disagreed with us? Saying that the 5 seconds of vulnerability was what made fox challenging and different. Was that a "you're jilsponie" thing? Because we not only pointed out the exact same problem, but gave the same fix... But yeah you're right. I'd like to point out though this could have been fixed already, had you just kept quiet while you weren't even playing playing anyway.

    Sent from my SM-J727T1 using Tapatalk
    To clarify, I'm not asking for the buff to be lengthened without a cooldown change, I want the cooldown lengthened as well to keep the downtime without the buff the same / proportionally longer.... (because yes, that is what makes fox fun and challenging)

    I probably misunderstood you. Glad we are on the same page now !
    Last edited by Congeniality; 06-11-2018 at 01:50 PM.

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