Nerf Volta Dagger and reduce proc time period

[Jensmage]

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff? I came from 61 where a 61 rhino will lose to a 56 bear on a daily so i know what being Underpowered is, and i also did 17 rhino so i know what Overpowered is. The match i had with Jens team is legit proof debunking everything these people are complaining about as with dagger i failed at killing the flaggers many times even in solo. Now you can nerf the set i won't have a problem with, but DAMAGE input? We can go to the Arena of Honor right now to debunk this mess. When i lose 10-0, and trust me i will, come back here and say that rhinos damage is OP. Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?

You want to Nerf rhino to balance it? Nerf Brute and nerf dex set. That's all you need to do because it's not the rhino that's op. It's the set they're using. I used STR set to fight a mage. I was near death 90% of the fight and i only won because of kite.

I believe it’s a different level of support from STS now.

To be honest, I started pvp +l75 a year ago and wasn’t active on forum until I hosted l71 tourney.

I think Cinco isn’t nerfing rhino. He is tuning rhino in a way to balance pvp 1v1 and team play @L105.

Most players are at endgame now because STS improved pvp by a lot.



“Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?”
Is this really true? Were you guys utilizing l100 set vs a mage using l105? Doubt cinco will believe this statement. He probably can’t shake his head any harder. Srry...


Nice to have two rhinos in Apex supporting the thread on rhino.

[MageFFA]

I believe it’s a different level of support from STS now.

To be honest, I started pvp +l75 a year ago and wasn’t active on forum as now.

I think Cinco isn’t nerfing rhino. He is tuning rhino in a way to balance pvp 1v1 and team play @L105. Most players are at endgame now.



“Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?”
Is this really true? Were you guys utilizing l100 set vs a mage using l105? Doubt cinco will believe this statement. He probably can’t shake his head any harder. Srry...


Nice to have two rhinos in Apex supporting the thread on rhino.

No. If you saw what i was writing prior to that sentence/statement you'd comprehend that i was nitpicking at the Arena of Power(Inside Joke). The Arena of Power is based on Skill Damage. Key Skill Damage. You guys complain about rhinos stats? Go to the Arena Of Power and 1v1 any rhino. Then when you 10-0 come back here and say the same thing "Rhino needs DAMAGE Nerf". It's not the class, it's the set that the rhino is using and your very own playstyle.

[Jensmage]

No. If you saw what i was writing prior to that sentence/statement you'd comprehend that i was nitpicking at the Arena of Power(Inside Joke). The Arena of Power is based on Skill Damage. Key Skill Damage. You guys complain about rhinos stats? Go to the Arena Of Power and 1v1 any rhino. Then when you 10-0 come back here and say the same thing "Rhino needs DAMAGE Nerf". It's not the class, it's the set that the rhino is using and your very own playstyle.

I think you are referring to “Arena of Honor”? That is is a completely different story.

[MageFFA]

I think you are referring to “Arena of Honor”? That is is a completely different story.

Not Really. Again if you read my post i explained how the arena of Power worked(inside joke) is mostly based on Skill Damage and DMG buffed, mostly skill damage though. If rhinos were the most OP i doubt they would be losing 10-0 to every class. Yet mages can drop a 11 bomb in FFA dispite lower armor value they still out tank rhinos. I'll also have you consider that because of rhino nerf last cap rhinos are now a obsolete sorry excuse for what they use to be in twink so just note that. This effects everything and i refuse to go back to 2014-2015 rhino. I've debunked every nitpick every poster has said about rhino but they refused to see it's not rhinos but the sets they use. Go ask Zohan to use STR gear and have a 1v1 with oneshotfury or itastemvp and I'll insure you that 8-4 will not happen.

[Jensmage]

Let's talk about this dagger set for a minute also. Why is it that rhinos sre receiving heat for IT'S PROC. It's not like a mage can't use dagget set either? Last i check bears with daggers was always a great meta in PvP. Why are rhinos receiving heat when they can't even stun as much as a mage, bird and bear can? Rhinos stun consists of Rhino Might( WHICH NEEDS TO BE L.10 TO BE 100% STUN) and Holy Tempest that barely does that. Yet birds have 2 roots and avian scream . Bears have Hell Scream, Crippling Slash, Stomp, Beckon, Super mega slash and vengeful Slash. Mages have Frost and Icestorm which has crazy cool downs. All of these attacks has a chance to stun even if it doesn't say so in their description. Yet we're going to sit here and bash infinite stun on rhinos? Hypocrisy at it's finest people.

These are the reasons why...

When a rhino utilizes a Volta Dagger set, it’s almost impossible to beat. Reason:
1) high armor and dodge
2) chasing speed
3) heal
4) debuff
5) Dagger immobilize the class.
Basically it’s like a mage with better features in a 1v1 and team environment.

Mage can’t chase a player as well as a rhino. Mage is weak with armor and dodge compared to rhino. Rhino has escape speed. Remember, speed was removed from mage recently.

[MageFFA]

These are the reasons why...

When a rhino utilizes a Volta Dagger set, it’s almost impossible to beat. Reason:
1) high armor and dodge
2) chasing speed
3) heal
4) debuff
5) Dagger immobilize the class.
Basically it’s like a mage with better features in a 1v1 and team environment.

Mage can’t chase a player as well as a rhino. Mage is weak with armor and dodge compared to rhino. Rhino has escape speed. Remember, speed was removed from mage recently.

I can not disagree even harder. Sorry Jen but of all of the reasons you listed i only agree with #1 and #5 but 5 is a invalid reason since other classes can infinite stun more than rhinos could ever comprehend.

1) Rhinos Armor and Heal can be thrown out of the conversation. Rhinos base armor value is just the same as bear, nerfing the only good aspect of rhino would render it a useless class. You'd just be playing a very suppressed mage who can't kill anyone. Rhinos base health is also lower than mage by a significant number. Lower health means higher heal and considering that rhinos take in alot of damage til the point of death, it would not be called fair it would called a slaughter.

2) chasing speed isn't a thing. It's simply a skill just like how Ms is a skill. We tend to hate it because what it can do but we have no right to complain about it. Now if you're having a problem about chasing speed on rhinos then I'd really love to see what you'd think of Foxes when they're buffed.

3) Rhinos are NOT a better 1v1 class than mages. You'd see from my name being MageFFA, mage is one of my favorite class second to Bird. Mages stomp rhinos in all levels but 17. Same in Endgame if it was a STR rhino vs a INT mage. The only reason rhinos can even compete against mages is because of their sets period(inside joke). This is backed by Arena of Honor a place where skill DMG depends on who gets kill and who doesn't.

[Dolloway]

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff?

Then you didn't read my posts during the 76-77 cap. I stated in one long balance thread that rhino needed tweaks to make the class better but I was not the right person to suggest tweaks to either the rhino or fox class and that it would be better left to the people that play those classes regularly. I was also not the right person to suggest such changes because I felt like (and still feel) that foxes and rhinos are unfinished products (especially rhino).

And to go into slight detail why I think that rhino is an especially unfinished class: I believe it's the hardest class to balance in the game. It's been either utterly useless or slightly to greatly overpowered. I haven't seen a completely 'balanced' endgame rhino yet.

It's one major nerf away (depending on what is nerfed) from being utterly useless again at endgame and because of the upcoming tourney, I didn't want such changes taking place at this time, but there were individuals that strongly wanted me to voice my opinion on this thread.

[MageFFA]

Then you didn't read my posts during the 76-77 cap. I stated in one long balance thread that rhino needed tweaks to make the class better but I was not the right person to suggest tweaks to either the rhino or fox class and that it would be better left to the people that play those classes regularly. I was also not the right person to suggest such changes because I felt like (and still feel) that foxes and rhinos are unfinished products (especially rhino).

And to go into slight detail why I think that rhino is an especially unfinished class: I believe it's the hardest class to balance in the game. It's been either utterly useless or slightly to greatly overpowered. I haven't seen a completely 'balanced' endgame rhino yet.

It's one major nerf away (depending on what is nerfed) from being utterly useless again at endgame and because of the upcoming tourney, I didn't want such changes taking place at this time, but there were individuals that strongly wanted me to voice my opinion on this thread.

If that's the case then i apologize for jumping to conclusions. Rhino and fox are classes that are no where near finished. Certain combos do not meet the demands the description says. Like how juiced combo supposed to to give HP back but it only works at 25%

[Lovenus]

I think volta dagger should stay the same proc rate and duration as it is. To be honest, during 8 years of Pocket Legends, when was dagger weapon so frequently discussed?

If volta dagger is nerfed, it will be almost the same as all other daggers from level 1-101. I would love for it to remain and give the dagger weapon class it's deserved glory and attention. At least there is a dagger set that people would use in pvp.

Rhino charge to you with dagger set, you can equip a dagger set too to versus it. This will be more balanced.

It is just like crossbow has more range for kiting, should we nerf crossbow range too?

It is not about the item set, if you feel it is unfair, you can always use the same set.

Volta dagger rhino vs dagger bear, dagger bird, dagger fox, dagger mage.

Seems interesting to me. I believe it is called volta dagger for a reason because of the proc, so I will vote for it to remain.

[Lovenus]

Level 15 pvp is mostly bears.

Level 27 pvp is mostly mages.

Level 105 pvp is rhino.

Seems balanced.

I haven't tried but I think a volta dagger mage is quite OP too.

[Jensmage]

I think volta dagger should stay the same proc rate and duration as it is. To be honest, during 8 years of Pocket Legends, when was dagger weapon so frequently discussed?

If volta dagger is nerfed, it will be almost the same as all other daggers from level 1-101. I would love for it to remain and give the dagger weapon class it's deserved glory and attention. At least there is a dagger set that people would use in pvp.

Rhino charge to you with dagger set, you can equip a dagger set too to versus it. This will be more balanced.


It is just like crossbow has more range for kiting, should we nerf crossbow range too?

It is not about the item set, if you feel it is unfair, you can always use the same set.

Volta dagger rhino vs dagger bear, dagger bird, dagger fox, dagger mage.

Seems interesting to me. I believe it is called volta dagger for a reason because of the proc, so I will vote for it to remain.

Do you PVP at L105? How does a fox, mage, and bear, and bird with dagger stand against a dagger rhino with op armor, dodge, heal, chase speed...


I think bow should be in another thread. Focus on one item at a time. Adding too many variables in an equation makes it difficult to solve.

[Jensmage]

Level 15 pvp is mostly bears.

Level 27 pvp is mostly mages.

Level 105 pvp is rhino.

Seems balanced.

I haven't tried but I think a volta dagger mage is quite OP too.

I think STS priority is @L105 in balancing the PVP environment.

[Mine AGK]

I think STS priority is @L105 in balancing the PVP environment.

Lovenus? Comparing twink to endgame is completely a false equivalency. Twink is luck based crit/dodge. Endgame requires more then 1 combo along with having to play AROUND your procs. 1 class ruling them all with a proc that stuns for too long, is NOT balanced.

[MageFFA]

I can't comprehend why everyone is singling out rhino for using a set that has it's OWN proc. This entire convo is just to drop rhinos from a class that can compete to the worst. You say dagger is OP but you're blaming rhinos for it? Where is the logic in any of your statements, shouldn't you be asking for a nerf on dagger instead? Like this is entirely absurd and I've already given 3 reasons why everyones statements were invalid. There are 4 clases that have more stun procs compared to rhinos 2, one that has to be maxed to even be effective, yet nobody here cared to even try that out? You're acting as if mage doesn't get a 500 boost in health and mana regen from their proc, if used correctly rhinos with daggers won't kill them. Ever cared to actually put effort into strategies instead of coming on forum quick to ask for the nerf of a ALREADY DESTROYED CLASS instead of the item in use?

Not only is there more mages, birds, and bears in endgame, there is barely any dex rhinos i see, so where is your sources on there being nothing but dex rhinos in endgame. I'll ensure you hook is just 1 rhino I'm just 1 rhino and trans is barely on his. So please where are these extra rhinos in endgame PvP i somehow don't know about?

This thread should be closed. Full of hypocrisy in every post.

[Mine AGK]

I can't comprehend why everyone is singling out rhino for using a set that has it's OWN proc. This entire convo is just to drop rhinos from a class that can compete to the worst. You say dagger is OP but you're blaming rhinos for it? Where is the logic in any of your statements, shouldn't you be asking for a nerf on dagger instead? Like this is entirely absurd and I've already given 3 reasons why everyones statements were invalid. There are 4 clases that have more stun procs compared to rhinos 2, one that has to be maxed to even be effective, yet nobody here cared to even try that out? You're acting as if mage doesn't get a 500 boost in health and mana regen from their proc, if used correctly rhinos with daggers won't kill them. Ever cared to actually put effort into strategies instead of coming on forum quick to ask for the nerf of a ALREADY DESTROYED CLASS instead of the item in use?

Not only is there more mages, birds, and bears in endgame, there is barely any dex rhinos i see, so where is your sources on there being nothing but dex rhinos in endgame. I'll ensure you hook is just 1 rhino I'm just 1 rhino and trans is barely on his. So please where are these extra rhinos in endgame PvP i somehow don't know about?

This thread should be closed. Full of hypocrisy in every post.

The reason most people want the dagger nerfed, is because the proc lasts too long. Combine the dagger proc with the rhinos ridiculous dodge, its hard to even kite rhino. As soon as the proc lands, nearly every class is dead, except bird if they talon proc. Thats IF they get lucky enough to proc. Mage proc doesnt negate damage just from the regen they get from their proc, not to mention it lasts a whole 2-3 seconds compared to the dagger proc lasting for 7 seconds. Even if i sat in my pool, i still wouldnt survive or do enough damage to even nuke rhino with the proc. I can play in my proc or around my proc all day, i still wont come close to nuking rhino from its buff. Rhino dodges ALOT and combined with it ALSO being able to dash at its target while iced, how can i CONTINUE to be at range to keep the rhino from getting close? Ive tested this over and over again. Im not just coming on forums to say somethings OP after 1 or 2 fights.


As far as how many rhinos are at endgame playing dagger. Thats irrelavent. How many rhinos played endgame BEFORE they became OP during 100 cap? Barely any. As soon as they were found to be broken OP at 100, EVERYONE who PVP'd, made one. People dont want to have to make a class, or spend more gold (that most people dont have at this point) just to have fun in pvp. On top of enchanting another set or, farming for the pieces if they cant afford to buy one. Thats not how people want to spend their time in game. I surely dont want to waste more time AND gold just to be able to pvp against broken dagger rhinos all day. That ruins endgame and will continue to until its balanced out. Everyone going to 1 class/gear isnt fun for endgame at all. Its just the same boring fights that never change.

[Jensmage]

The combo damage 15% reduction on rhino did not improve the PVP environment. The proc dagger causes the damages in the short duration. ~945 damage/Lighting is op in a PVP environment. We are not talking about Lighting/second because it looks like the lighting occurs more often then the actual real lighting. Rhino >mage>fox>bird>bear. If it is possible for rhinos to beat another class in a short period during a CTF, then a team will have little chance in winning. I mentioned previously that if a rhino can beat a flagger at the beginning and end of capturing the flag, then the opponent team is unable to score. Flagger can not be escorted always because the resources are not there.

Fox hasn't seen much improvements after previous update.

Dex set mage is op during a 1v1 and team environment ( 2v2 or 3v3 CTF). When a mage selects talon with proc, it basically impossible to kill for ~8 seconds. A bear and dex mage can attack an int mage easily during a ctf or 2v2. 8 seconds of impossible to kill for a dex set mage is op. I was trying out dex mage and beating a bear, bird, and int mage did not require skills or minimum skills. Other classes are taking advantage of the dex procs to win. If int mage had speed back, it might be a different story. Doubt that will happen.

These dex procs contribute to the results way too much in a PVP environment.

All classes except for bear are switching to Dex set because of the advantages with dex set procs. Image will display the state at which PVP L105 is at. Mage selects dex. Rhino and bird also selects dex. Rip int set.

[Waug]

Jen get a Dex set kill some good int mages and post ss..
No time rn to post a long reply...

[Jensmage]

Jen get a Dex set kill some good int mages and post ss..
No time rn to post a long reply...

LOl...even Waug aka BHUI plays dex mage. Like that image of you posted recently? :P

Teach me dex mage and Rhino dex pls... Waug

[Mine AGK]

LOl...even Waug aka BHUI plays dex mage. Like that image of you posted recently? :P

Teach me dex mage and Rhino dex pls... Waug

Dex rhino requires no skills. They tank too much and the proc lasts too long on dagger. Dex mage is for nubs that dont know how to nuke as INT mage.

[Draebatad]

There is no perfect solution. If gear gets class restricted, people then switch to op class. Even if today's op class gets nerfed, there's always another op class tomorrow. Good luck balancing it all out to where no one complains - not happening. The constant tug of war over gear and class balance will never end. It is what it is. Try to enjoy it.