Do Rogues really need to be the best at PVP AND PveOriginally Posted by slaaayerrr
Here is how is my opinion on how classes balance should work
Rogue: Strong at PVP, Weak at PVE
Warrior: Average in PVP, Average in PVE
Mage: Weak in PVP, Strong in PVE
Here is what we have now:
Rogue: Strong in PVP, Strong in PVE
Warrior: Average in PVP <-- debateable, Weak in PVE
Mage: Weak in PVP, Weak in PVE
Last edited by Spheresome; 09-02-2018 at 06:27 PM.
it just hydra bog give them a break, if they run infested swamp is the same they can only deal great damage to single boss or mobs not multiple. I had ran with random rogues which dies like ants as they do not know the new bog mechanisms.... and timing ..
It is quite logical everyone running hydra bog should use fernris irregardless of weapon type, even though ds / bs is nerf it is still useful in a way... spiritual gun > 41 level or creeping rifle is good too from what i felt as a mage.
Warrior should not use dragon hunter sword or the nightmare guard blocking all view of the poison patches ...
Last edited by will0; 09-02-2018 at 07:21 PM.
well said +100
This is true. But let us re-think, rouges eversince are the class that can have the best output damage, as their gears are purposely always gonna be stronger than mages and warrs, downside to rouges are most of their skills are 1 target skills with no skills absorbing damage. Rouges are designed like this for single or high hp enemies.
So we shouldn't complain about mages needing a buff in damage. Because we weren't design to have as good or similar damage to a rouge. Otherwise it isn't fair for rouges, so you want mages to have like 4-6k dmg with OP Aoe/Dot and the strongest shield in game? Just like saying you want rouges to have their aim shots to do splash damage. Think about realization, and not the usless "numbers and facts" you've mentioned.
Where did the Era of farming trillions of gold belonged too? Mages, we did that for 1.5 years, and now its just karma. Rouges are dominating raids and its their Era to earn gold now.
Stop giving "numbers and facts" in this scenario, as it was used wrong, your explanation was useless as it didn't give important information. Did you showproof? Sending screenshots and being elaborate of the gear you were saying? Did you mention any variables or constants that may be the problem of your "3k damage"? No you didn't. Don't say you give numbers and facts if you're incomplete, this is just like giving a physics problem, you need all important and necessary information otherwise people percieve it inaccurate, just like what you did.
There is no need to mention classes here, as Devs fault for giving a raid that obviously only needs more dps for it to be better, is this even AL? We just have 3 classes to choose, and yet they're Isolating us from other classes, no teamwork, no motivation, and definitely no communication.
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Last edited by Rauitri; 09-03-2018 at 10:12 AM.
Kind of agree, there are few mages left in game and rogues are multiplying in size. If u did not notice during ursoth LB, regardless of how inactive the event was. The rogue leaderboard socres were much higher then mages. Why? Nobody wants a slow mage when a rogue reaches bosses and kills within 30 sec. Rogues have a tactical advantage in every aspect of the game nearly at this point.
what is the best AA pet in hydra?
what u mean about pvp? there are no weak/strong roles, its nice to have every class in team in any clash
about pve - i guess u another nab crying mage, theres nothing to discuss more, lol
and if mage will deal same dmg as rogue at bosses - what will be rogue's role in game?
Last edited by slaaayerrr; 09-03-2018 at 12:18 PM.
I would really appreciate if you do some investigation before making such statements. Rogues have 3 Offensive AoE skills in their rotation. Kindly go check the Damage, DoT, Cool Down and number of target those skills affects.
Nobody is asking for mages to have same damage as rogues. The class balance in any game is done according to the role of the class.
Everything you said in that quote is just your speculation.
This is not about gold farming. Mages and Warriors are making almost same gold in random. Our gold loot gear works same as rogues.
I like to invest my time where it matters, hence I have sent some specific numbers from my tests to devs in PM.
I would be very much open to share my tests and comparisons to an audience who do some research and tests from their end as well to add value to the discussion, instead of quoting it useless. You are certainly not one of those; For starters: play all classes and see how their skills work.
Though I dare you and other members on this thread to prove me wrong, at-least that way you all will look into some numbers
This is not the 1st game where the developer made something and players played different then how it was visioned to work. For example, developers added the skull mechanic in infested map so a Warrior will be required. Players replaced Warriors with Glow AA.
Sure there are no crowd control element in raids, but does adding it assure that mages will be needed?
The main issue is: If the LB time is affected by damage and the raids does not require inter-dependence of classes then 4 rogue parties will be taking all the spots on LB every month. How do I know? Because it happens in season LB as well.
I would like to politely disagree with you and point out that there are absolutely differences within PVP and that rogues are the stronges pvp class and most mediocre rogue will destroy a well geared mage or warrior. While it is nice to have all classses on a team for pvp, it is undeniable that rogues are the best in pvp. My problem is not that rogues are too OP in PVP nor is it a problem that rogues are the leading roles in killing bosses. My problem is that every other class is being pushed out because rogues are the ONLY factor needed for gold PVE farming now. Hydra boss, you need rogues only, a mage and warrior WILL way down the group, and I dont feel any leaderboard or important piece of PVE should be centralized towards one class that alreaedy has its countless strengths in other areas. The problem is NOT with Rogues, it is the problem with the way the maps and leaderboards are structured to surround the rogue class.
P.S. I find myself to be a decent stated mage that can hold my own ground, so please do not use words such as "nab crying mage" as an attempt to degrade my morale personally. Cheers! ^_^
Last edited by Spheresome; 09-03-2018 at 01:26 PM.
Oh please, you do know that AOE/DOT of rogues skills are pretty much weak against the boss in the raid, I, and farmers never faced rogues focusing on them. And why need those if you're only focusing on 1 boss? Better off put them in masteries.
Then what was all the crying of you saying that all those gears etc etc and you're still at 3k damage? You want damage decreased to rogue class? Major issue about class balance in pve is the mechanics of released zones.
It just so happen that Maus is a zone with lots of mobs and spawnables, at the same time these mobs spawning debuffs, massive damage output. Which in this case mages are good at affecting and taking out large chunks of enemies, same time removing debuffs, absorbing them or protecting themselves. Even after nerfing broken weapons several times, the offensive proc itself is splash damage, which really is effective in big chuncks. Unless they change the proc completely.
Same goes with raids. Infested was pretty much balanced, mages for the mobs and applying/removing DoT/AoE from Orrick, warrs for aggro and rog for the boss. This all changed firstly when BS was fixed, times was so slow now for the average. Hydra now was faster to finish after making it a 4-man raid, thus people migrating there just to find out that dps was all needed. Rogues are good at single targeted enemies as its damage is purposely greater than mages/warrs single targeted skills. Theres no need for a support nor tank as we have glow to solve that, and no mobs hindering the rogs to just target the boss. So yeah, basically design/mechanics of zones majorly affect class balance and composition, and not because of only getting 3k damage after getting these awakes gears gems etcc..
Gold loot gears % does work the same, but the team composition does not. Mages were the class that gained the most gold farming Maus for 1.5 years, as rogues and warrs are being hindered by either being substituted by another mage, or too little slots as mage was mostly in demand, filling up the parties.
Your "numbers and facts" isn't much necessary. Just like you've said, you aren't wanting a damage boost to mages. And yet you have full int 25% int awakes full noble etc etc and just at 3k damage, wheres the point?. So basically, if so you sent it to Devs PM, what would you want them to do or to realize with your gathered data then?
This is the occuring issue, the main issue in the first place, and has been adressed to Devs, is how they designed the raids. Obviously, 1 boss will mostly attract rogues, as thats their job and can apply most damage over time, perhaps adding some mobs and bombs dropped from mobs would need a warr and mage finally.
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I'm glad that finally rogue bless back with single unblock@uncut dmg dealer again... This is what rogue is build for. We nages can smile again knowing our dmg dealer really deal the intended dmg. To all mages pls pls get the mireguard set. You'll know it when you owned one. Peace...
• Reonauz
This right here is the main issue with AL forums, people are just wasting time on speculations and debates based on their perception.
Where you should be providing data based on your experience, data that can be evaluated. No wonder AL public test servers are closed.
@ Rauitri: Please read the posts properly before you get triggered further.
I said: I have 3k damage and I compared the skill damage and cd with a rogue of same type of gear.
The data I sent has comparison between mage and rogue skill damage and cooldown at Same Raw Damage (Does not include bonus Damage).
Its up-to devs what they would like to do with that data, my job as a player was to provide information that they might have missed.
*I ignored the rest of your long post as I do not see any facts supporting your speculations.
Last edited by Trader; 09-03-2018 at 09:59 PM.
Im not as picky as some people i guess cause 3k damg for a mage in my pt is a good thing, not bad(mostly do randoms, and i do not seek out rogue only pts). Ill even stay if two wars 1 mage and I (Rogue).
It does get a little frustrating when people are undergeared as kill times can go into 1m+ but i do not discriminate by checking everyones stats at the start of maps. That part frusterates me and i will say it is rogues that mostly do it(then tend to leave if its not "up to par").
Displace characters on a rotation starting with rogues( boss skill that will basically prevent 4pt rogues,), so if 4 rogues try to run it, it would be impossible. By displace i of course mean start a continuous process of negating one character class at a time that cannot be broken with any pet aa or skill. Does that make sense y'all? Im a tired atm so maybe someone can refine this or something..
I don't look at people's stats, pets or class. Never have done and never will. I don't leave maps unless it's absolutely necessary i.e. real life stuff and if someone insults me, which happens. I'm getting a bit bored with people who go on and on about who they want in their map. Just get on with it and stop moaning..if your character dies, so what?
Sts please just balance classes or dont implement pure Boss maps.
I loved Maus for the whole teamplay thing, every class was needed and in some way useful.
(Dont say rogs werent needed, 2 rogs 1 mage 1 tank was extremely op)
now its just spamming skills, get as many rogs together as you can. Tanks/Mages slow down runs by a LOT, to make fast gold I dont get to play with my friends.
we had this whole thing with Arena runs. Why do it again?
Please make all classes nessecary and teamwork more important than stats.
EDIT:
here are some suggestions: - make timed runs as survival, LB for the most spent time in an endless map, restrict respawn, force the team to decide when to quit or they loose the stuff they made from that run.
invent new skills, pets, something that can make you invisible but you gotta watch out for red zones and stuff like that. invent enemies that diseable your skills, come up with new maps added to an expansion without a new cap, try to connect content... IMO that stuff is more important than these small repetetive events. leave them out, focus on the game there is and make us feel happy to grind, not bored by spending 110 hr to get 1500 murkstone tokens. maybe add differnet goals inbetween, maps with different stuff to farm at the same time with different time needed so we are happy to farm the little stuff untill we reach the big goal.
maybe make plat tradeable, expensive plat vanites, stuff exclusively bought with plat but farmable by trading to plat.
right now i dont feel like you care much about this game and i care too less and less :/
just my 2 cents
Last edited by Lolifee; 09-04-2018 at 09:02 AM.
You forgot the part where mages destroyed maus mobs and boss single handedly, made hundreds of millions of gold and were spammed by rogues and warriors to get invited.
The truth is, somehow, nowdays my guild members and friends only call for "full rog hydra party last slot!" hohoho, i just reply, racist! Then, laugh, since im not a rogue. ;-) no matter what, just be happy.
The problem isn't class balance it's the raids themselves single target boss kill is always gonna be a rogue map same as arena.. and mauso was a mage map because of drag staff being to op on bosses.
The most balanced I have seen AL was the underhul expansion every class was needed on those maps tank to take aggro on the mobs that stun ALOT, mage to control mobs and use hex staff to damage large groups and the bosses had alot of hp so you needed a rogue in pt too and drag staff wasn't as good then because the hp wasn't as high as mauso.
I think instead of the raids we need big maps with mobs that do lots of stuns and pulls and bosses with high hp but not to high or it will be 4 op rogue parties.
Otherwise everyone just make a rogue and get rich
Need large maps? An easy way sts would do is, create deep, deeper, deepest marsh, similar to maus 1 to 6. So that mobs hit harder, with longer hp. Also, deeper, deepest maps could give more spirit exp, so that people would be more interested to go there.
honestly if people are really your friends they'll run for the fun of it not greed. Yes its easiest to farm with rogues.. 4 is fastest. But i run with all classes.. regardless if its one min runs or 30 sec runs. having a guild and friends help a lot.
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