thats not the topic hereOriginally Posted by Alwarez
thats not the topic here
This isnt a real friend obviously. U know u accept some people when they ask or play good. People come and go but i just wanted to show that it is no matter of gear that u dont get invited as a mage.
From what I read, guess I'm lucky to be a rogue..this time. ( I and a few other under-geared rogues did get left out a bit in some maps previously). It's swings and roundabouts really but I'm not bothered who joins me in any map because it's not that important to me. The most important thing is enjoying the game whatever we choose to do with our time on there, whether it's collecting vanities, rare armours, socialising, farming, merching, house decor, leaderboards or running festerfang. I prefer to solo most maps now or just go and random..hate parties but If anyone joins me in Hydra, I won't leave whatever class or gears..I just can't be fussed with all the seriousness anymore.
@Noni Still waiting for the screen shot of your mage.
I dont think we need more of these threads, we already concluded the issue on the other thread and I am sure Devs are working on it. Just have patience and faith on JustGesus.
Though I am LMAO at people who are comparing Raids with Maus. I am sure they are those under-geared rogues who didn't get invites back in the day and now they are terming it as karma or payback time, and TBH I call it BS. I mean just look at you, how stupid is your argument.
I am not going to be biased, if you are an under-geared mage who is not getting invites then its time you learn your class and understand the importance of your main stat. You are no different then these nab rogues who are crying in these thread.
Now time for some FACTS:
There are 2 key differences that the stereotypes in this thread are purposely overlooking to create drama:
- The Mausoleum: It was designed as a fully fledged map that required all classes. Tanks to hold aggro, Mages to crowd control and Rogues to do single target damage. The issue was not the content, the issue was the gears.
When it came to party composition, Warriors and Rogues did not invite any random Mage to the party, they asked specifically for Mages who had DS+Immo/Flame. If they didn't find 1 Mage with DS+Immo/Flame then they invited 2 Mages, one carried DS and one carried Immo/Flame. It was rare and unintentional to have 4 mage parties for Maus. So rare that in my experience of 1000 vory/lich achievement I might have had less than 10 Maus runs with 4 mages. It was mostly 1W 1R 2M or 1W 2R 1M.
The reason was very simple: It made the runs faster, it reduced the time whole dungeon took.
Now if you look at the old threads where devs tried taking corrective measures, where the weapons for mage were suggested a nerf then you will see that it wasn't only mages who said no but rogues and warriors also protested saying it will increase the clear time of those dungeons. So all of you said no to it because you didn't want to spend hours in Maus.
VS
Infested/Hydra Raids: They are small map which only require single target damage. There is no mechanic for Tanks or Support class, you can solo the raids, sure it will take time, but you can.. Here the issue is not gear, the issue is content.
When you put things in equal perspective you will realize that an under-geared Rogue pulls better damage then a fully geared Mage/Warrior. Don't believe me? Go compare the difference in the Skill Damage and Cool Down of Lightning Strike, Axe Throw and Aim Shot at the same raw damage. Not to mention that at the same type of gear Rogues will always have more raw damage then Warriors and Mage.
So now hell with Mages and Warriors, because you can make gold from Raids and dont have to run Mausoleum anymore. I mean why now? Where were these rogues in the nightmare expansion? Yeah right, they were busy looking for a Mage with DS to farm gold. That's hypocrisy at its best.
- The Mausoleum had no monthly LB.
VS
Infested/Hydra Raids: It has monthly LB that rewards badges, and in my opinion every class in the game has the right to earn them.
The problem is the content design, its based on single target burst damage. Higher the damage - lower the clear time. Which means that even the best Mages and Warriors in the server has no possible way to beat a equally geared 4 rogue party. That's common sense.
Fun Fact: Mausoleum 5/6 scales to your level and is still the hardest content. Even after the nerfs you need a Mage there to CC, a Warrior to hold aggro and a Rogue to do damage. #Inter-dependence
PS: I think it will be fair to all classes if the new arcane weapons have class specific procs that compliment the roles and bring some balance to the damage.
Last edited by Trader; 09-13-2018 at 04:51 AM. Reason: proofread
Yes, there is no point in this thread now but I'm just wondering why I can't edit my posts and I noticed you did. I used to be able to correct mine but now it just deletes the whole thing if I tap edit.I dont think we need more of these threads, we already concluded the issue on the other thread and I am sure Devs are working on it. Just have patience and faith on JustGesus
Though I am LMAO at people who are comparing Raids with Maus. I am sure they are those under-geared rogues who didn't get invites back in the day and now they are terming it as karma or payback time, and TBH I call it BS. I mean just look at you, how stupid is your argument.
I am not going to be biased, if you are an under-geared mage who is not getting invites then its time you learn your class and understand the importance of your main stat. You are no different then these nab rogues who are crying in these thread.
Now time for some FACTS:
There are 2 key differences that the stereotypes in this thread are purposely overlooking to create drama:
- The Mausoleum: It was designed as a fully fledged map that required all classes. Tanks to hold aggro, Mages to crowd control and Rogues to do single target damage. The issue was not the content, the issue was the gears.
When it came to party composition, Warriors and Rogues did not invite any random Mage to the party, they asked specifically for Mages who had DS+Immo/Flame. If they didn't find 1 Mage with DS+Immo/Flame then they invited 2 Mages, one carried DS and one carried Immo/Flame. It was rare and unintentional to have 4 mage parties for Maus. So rare that in my experience of 1000 vory/lich achievement I might have had less than 10 Maus runs with 4 mages. It was mostly 1W 1R 2M or 1W 2R 1M.
The reason was very simple: It made the runs faster, it reduced the time whole dungeon took.
Now if you look at the old threads where devs tried taking corrective measures, where the weapons for mage were suggested a nerf then you will see that it wasn't only mages who said no but rogues and warriors also protested saying it will increase the clear time of those dungeons. So all of you said no to it because you didn't want to spend hours in Maus.
VS
Infested/Hydra Raids: They are small map which only require single target damage. There is no mechanic for Tanks or Support class, you can solo the raids, sure it will take time, but you can.. Here the issue is not gear, the issue is content.
When you put things in equal perspective you will realize that an under-geared Rogue pulls better damage then a fully geared Mage/Warrior. Don't believe me? Go compare the difference in the Skill Damage and Cool Down of Lightning Strike, Axe Throw and Aim Shot at the same raw damage. Not to mention that at the same type of gear Rogues will always have more raw damage then Warriors and Mage.
So now hell with Mages and Warriors, because you can make gold from Raids and dont have to run Mausoleum anymore. I mean why now? Where were these rogues in the nightmare expansion? Yeah right, they were busy looking for a Mage with DS to farm gold. That's hypocrisy at its best.
- The Mausoleum had no monthly LB.
VS
Infested/Hydra Raids: It has monthly LB that rewards badges, and in my opinion every class in the game has the right to earn them.
The problem is the content design, its based on single target burst damage. Higher the damage - lower the clear time. Which means that even the best Mages and Warriors in the server has no possible way to beat a equally geared 4 rogue party. That's common sense.
Fun Fact: Mausoleum 5/6 scales to your level and is still the hardest content. Even after the nerfs you need a Mage there to CC, a Warrior to hold aggro and a Rogue to do damage. #Inter-dependence
PS: I think it will be fair to all classes if the new arcane weapons have class specific procs that compliment the roles and bring some balance to the damage.
Well said, even though we have lenghty convos.I dont think we need more of these threads, we already concluded the issue on the other thread and I am sure Devs are working on it. Just have patience and faith on JustGesus
Though I am LMAO at people who are comparing Raids with Maus. I am sure they are those under-geared rogues who didn't get invites back in the day and now they are terming it as karma or payback time, and TBH I call it BS. I mean just look at you, how stupid is your argument.
I am not going to be biased, if you are an under-geared mage who is not getting invites then its time you learn your class and understand the importance of your main stat. You are no different then these nab rogues who are crying in these thread.
Now time for some FACTS:
There are 2 key differences that the stereotypes in this thread are purposely overlooking to create drama:
- The Mausoleum: It was designed as a fully fledged map that required all classes. Tanks to hold aggro, Mages to crowd control and Rogues to do single target damage. The issue was not the content, the issue was the gears.
When it came to party composition, Warriors and Rogues did not invite any random Mage to the party, they asked specifically for Mages who had DS+Immo/Flame. If they didn't find 1 Mage with DS+Immo/Flame then they invited 2 Mages, one carried DS and one carried Immo/Flame. It was rare and unintentional to have 4 mage parties for Maus. So rare that in my experience of 1000 vory/lich achievement I might have had less than 10 Maus runs with 4 mages. It was mostly 1W 1R 2M or 1W 2R 1M.
The reason was very simple: It made the runs faster, it reduced the time whole dungeon took.
Now if you look at the old threads where devs tried taking corrective measures, where the weapons for mage were suggested a nerf then you will see that it wasn't only mages who said no but rogues and warriors also protested saying it will increase the clear time of those dungeons. So all of you said no to it because you didn't want to spend hours in Maus.
VS
Infested/Hydra Raids: They are small map which only require single target damage. There is no mechanic for Tanks or Support class, you can solo the raids, sure it will take time, but you can.. Here the issue is not gear, the issue is content.
When you put things in equal perspective you will realize that an under-geared Rogue pulls better damage then a fully geared Mage/Warrior. Don't believe me? Go compare the difference in the Skill Damage and Cool Down of Lightning Strike, Axe Throw and Aim Shot at the same raw damage. Not to mention that at the same type of gear Rogues will always have more raw damage then Warriors and Mage.
So now hell with Mages and Warriors, because you can make gold from Raids and dont have to run Mausoleum anymore. I mean why now? Where were these rogues in the nightmare expansion? Yeah right, they were busy looking for a Mage with DS to farm gold. That's hypocrisy at its best.
- The Mausoleum had no monthly LB.
VS
Infested/Hydra Raids: It has monthly LB that rewards badges, and in my opinion every class in the game has the right to earn them.
The problem is the content design, its based on single target burst damage. Higher the damage - lower the clear time. Which means that even the best Mages and Warriors in the server has no possible way to beat a equally geared 4 rogue party. That's common sense.
Fun Fact: Mausoleum 5/6 scales to your level and is still the hardest content. Even after the nerfs you need a Mage there to CC, a Warrior to hold aggro and a Rogue to do damage. #Inter-dependence
PS: I think it will be fair to all classes if the new arcane weapons have class specific procs that compliment the roles and bring some balance to the damage.
I've thought of procs complimenting in a thread of mine couple months back, it got hate instead. Problems arised, "so now people are needed to buy these weapons"?.
They suggested: bonus buff if there is atleast 1 of each class in the team. Or combo skill buff, a Mage/Rog/Warr would need to cast a specific skill in a short span of time that in return would be more effective or deal more damage. With this inplementation there is more skill needed in timing the skill for it to create a combo, just like the tri-force pets.
My opinion about it, its a better idea then Arcane weapons having complimentary procs because atleast this will favour for all, poor or rich.
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I prefer the idea of complimentary skills instead of arcane weapons. This would give people who can't afford those weapons some semblance of ease in their parties. It was exhausting to see people needing specific classes in party, and then said player needs to have x weapon to be considered useful.
Last edited by Ticklish; 09-14-2018 at 08:55 AM. Reason: I meant complement, not compliment XD
@ Rauitry & Ticklish
It shouldn't rely on either one skill or one weapon.
If it's a skill then we all have to speck it and it's less variability.
If it's a weapon it's not fair if all can't easily get it.
Other than that I have also been asking for cross class buff for a while,
Let's hope
Lol
Well in that case instead of adding an additional skill (which is more work) they should simply equalize the skill damage for Lightning Bolt, Axe Throw and Aim Shot.
Rogues will still have an upperhand because of the factors like higher raw damage, lower cool down and additional Crit% from the main stat; But the difference will not be as godly as it is at present.
You interpet this wrong, this isn't implying in the addition of new skills, but rather already existing skills that can be more effective in terms of damage or benefits in the team if other specific skills from the other classes are casted in a time span for it to work as a proc, buff or something etc..
Example:
- Mage uses Lighting, Rogue uses Aim Shot, and Warr uses Axe Throw.
These 3 skills are casted all together, lets say the bonus will only work if all 3 were casted in between 5s, otherwise it will reset and not work. The buff could be something like all classes will gain 30% damage or something related to damage, considering that these skills does the most amount of damage in a single target enemy.
There could be more skill combos with other skills, another example is Arcane shield, Razor shield and Juggernaut, when casted in between 5s, then it will cast a shield for all classes that will last X amount of sec etc etc.
This wouldn't work in Pvp, and this kinda symbolises the Tri-force pets concept.
So now that you know, this is arguably better than said Arcane weapon complimentary procs, as the skill combo idea favours everyone, will alot for more strategy into making a better run by communicating and timing the skills.
Hope you can understand it by now.
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Last edited by Rauitri; 09-14-2018 at 02:00 AM.
Thats called teamwork. Using skills in sync will overall quicken the runs as I said it gives specific buffs. It will alot for more builds, strategy, timings etc.... I don't see why would it feel like a bot, as its basically teamwork & communication = faster runs, and not "freedom to choose skills, freestyle, rotation = faster runs".
And hey this idea is an option btw, if you people think its so hard to use then they wont, for those who are willing to communicate for the benefit of the skill buffs, then they will. But hey, atleast this one is free. Plus it fixes the team composition. Every skill for each class will have a unique buff that compliments to the other classes skill. So we wouldn't have the thing called "freedom to choose skill" lol.
Haven't you thought what problems will arise if your idea of dependent Arcane weapon procs takes place?
#1
- It's definitely not free, it being the latest arcane will also mean most expensive, as it has this new combo proc feature that will quicken runs for the rich etc...
#2
- People will complain about it not for everyone.
#3
- Instead of fixing the LB filled with Rogues, you will now replace that with teams using these Arcane weapons, people will complain about this too.
#4
- this idea is for lv71s only, as these arcanes are also lv71. So yeah, this can't help lv70 below players in events nor level up lower leveled players, but the Skill Combo System can so yeah.
#5
- It will only fix class balance for the rich, less fortunates being the same as they can't afford this or to find people using these weapons.
#6
- Now this is about depending on procs now? As suppose to skill combos that require skill from players, that in return would make the faster run, compared to a team not using this skill combo system.
And no, I am not crying about the money to afford these weapons, im trying to point out the accessibility, and equality between our ideas. Clearly, yours isn't friendly to everyone, only to lv71 richies, its a biased weapon.
As to mention again, the Skill Combo System is free, its for everyone, it will fix class distribution in teams, poor or rich, at any level.
And about the 1 of each class granting a buff, that idea was thought of 3-4 years ago by Perceval I think. And yes, his idea is the best in fixing class composition. But hey, if STS can't implement this easy solution, what more to ours.
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Last edited by Rauitri; 09-14-2018 at 04:55 AM.
Y'all trying to make a 5 minutes run (suppose to be) raid map into a 5 seconds run?
Actually 15 seconds already with full 5k rog pt
All those crying for class balance here and there without any valid reason are usually people who dont know how to handle their classes well. And yes I say this while having multiple toons. As a mage I never found any trouble finding party or making gold in hydra maps. Even with a full rogue party you might not be making much progress as most are presuming. It depends upon the players, how they play and what they are able to bring to the party. If you speak about timed runs, its not like people are getting into those lb just because they have a full rog or mage pt. Each member knows their own responsibility and skills. Learn to play your class well, reach the limit of your capabilities and if you still see some problems only then notify STS. Btw as a rogue I have run with mages, and the ones I run with are pretty decent and can hold their own.
Btw who do people always ignore Warriors from such topics?are they not loved enough?
I am using mire set 3/6 and still leveling my rog because mage is too slow.
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It's unnecessary that everyone repeats each other. Just chill. They will do something to make mages and warriors relevant
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I'll just copy a part of the message I posted in a different thread, because looking all these posts about the need to nerf rogues is annoying and saying the same thing all over again is tiring. I am rogue, and sometimes I have a tough time to do the map because I am not fully geared. It is good play that counts, be it rogues, warriors and mages. Tanks don't heal the whole pt and mages don't know how to proc their weapons. DO YOU HAVE ANY EXCUSE FOR THAT? I have only half the health of tanks and mages and I have to keep dying because of their incompetent gameplay and keep hitting like crazy because one half is into leeching and one half simply does not know how to play. Hydra bog map is still made for all classes, and I can vouch for it because I don't run full rogue parties. I have tried different combinations when it comes to pts and it works wonders with a skilled party even if it comprises of 1 tank, 2 mages and 1 rogue. And for the record, Mages with Drag Staff take over the map if they know how to proc well, rogues aren't even required if the mage plays well. The drag staff at present works amazingly in Bog so I don't see the need to boost its damage. It would be very unfair if mages are made OP once again in the game.
You mages call us useless, but half the time is is mages and tanks who continuously go around looking for rogues to be in their parties and dismantle a party if you think there are not enough rogues for your cause. So if we are useless enough for you, kindly don't turn to us to run Hydra. It is about the skills and it is about the time and investment you make on making your toon more powerful and not about being a rogue, warrior, mage. If you have something to complain about, overcome the inadequacies in your toon. It is very easy to play this blame game in circles.
I hope this attitude towards rogues in the game changes soon. We rogues are not tools and we are not enemies. It is just a game, so let's just enjoy it.
P.S: for your information, I created a mage to farm hydra and not a second rogue
Last edited by Bundlos; 09-17-2018 at 03:30 AM.
I did a 3 mages 1 rogue party(I was the rogue) and no joke those mages melted the boss in 45secs.
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nobody wants to nerf rogs. Its about buffing mages/tanks. And please dont blame others for dying on hydra.
drag staff is still slower than a good rog, esp bc the proc is only good for the boss itself and your dmg output is low if you dont proc.
And nobody calls rogs useless, its the best class atm.
-loli
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