Rushers already?

**Fac3bon3s** · 12-02-2011, 11:34 AM

If you see a team of 3 vs a team of 0...then leave. You don't have to join. If you join 3 vs 1, I don't know what else you expect to happen.

It was a hypothetical scenario. New players though would not know this. If you were on your PiF toon would you suggest to new players that they should rush players in PvP when teams were uneven?

The ready set go thing just seems cheesy and childish to me. I keep comparing this to xbox live games because that's the system I played (all my brother had was fps games lol), but let's compare this to 1 vs 1 snipers. When you kill someone, they respawn in a new spot. You are still in your spot. Survival tactics say that you need to find him before he finds you because he knows the general area your shot came from. You wouldn't run out in the middle of the map and say "ok I'm gonna go back to this tower over here, give me 10 seconds please." I'd hate to see some of you guys on xbox live if you want ready set go before each fight.

Not even sure where you are going with this. My issue is unbalanced teams not 1vs1.

I have no lag when I respawn after dying (don't die often so not many trials), and when I have respawned I've never been faced with a barrage of hits. You don't always respawn in the same spot. You guys want to play turn based, make sure everyone is ready games, go play chess.

This has nothing to do with the topic we are trying to discuss in a civil manor. You're only creating a flame war here.

And I quote from Flip...

-Rushers are insanely bad as people aim for position on LB's.
We have some ideas for tackling this issue in the future.

**Kahlua** · 12-02-2011, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Fac3bon3s

It was a hypothetical scenario. New players though would not know this. If you were on your PiF toon would you suggest to new players that they should rush players in PvP when teams were uneven?

Not even sure where you are going with this. My issue is unbalanced teams not 1vs1.

This has nothing to do with the topic we are trying to discuss in a civil manor. You're only creating a flame war here.

People said they get killed in 1 vs 1 rushing because of respawn lag. Other than that, they have no problem with it. Therefore, it is not a flame comment. I have no respawn lag. I don't even have a good connection. I don't see how people can have such bad spawn lag that they die because of it. People don't grasp that this is player vs player fighting. It's not chess. If you want a strategy game that's very slow paced and people take turns and wait for the other to be ready...go play chess.

The sniping comment was about how you asked why I don't see the point of asking players if theyre ready. People seem to want 1 vs 1 "are you ready" fights. Not everyone, but a good amount. I think that's pointless as it's a survival game. If you had to do that, the fight would end 10-9 in favor of whoever got the first kill (for operatives atleast), or you'd be waiting 3 hours for health to regenerate after each fight.

**StompArtist** · 12-02-2011, 11:46 AM

I think this thread shows that the definition of "Rusher" is unclear and that people are debating on a undefined basis. Could we agree on what a "Rusher" actually is before taking it further? I for one, am utterly confused.

**Fac3bon3s** · 12-02-2011, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kahlua

People said they get killed in 1 vs 1 rushing because of respawn lag. Other than that, they have no problem with it. Therefore, it is not a flame comment. I have no respawn lag. I don't even have a good connection. I don't see how people can have such bad spawn lag that they die because of it. People don't grasp that this is player vs player fighting. It's not chess. If you want a strategy game that's very slow paced and people take turns and wait for the other to be ready...go play chess.

The sniping comment was about how you asked why I don't see the point of asking players if theyre ready. People seem to want 1 vs 1 "are you ready" fights. Not everyone, but a good amount. I think that's pointless as it's a survival game. If you had to do that, the fight would end 10-9 in favor of whoever got the first kill (for operatives atleast), or you'd be waiting 3 hours for health to regenerate after each fight.

You were not quoting other people when discussing this. You were quoting me. So you can understand my confusion. No one is asking for turn based play. Not sure why you are bringing that into the discussion. Every other PvP mode in EVERY other game has a fail safe to make sure teams are even and balanced. EVERY GAME. The game either auto switches players to balance teams or the game won't start until there are an even amount of players on each team. This is to promote fair play. If your not here to promote fair play then maybe you should rethink your having a toon in PiF where the whole idea of that initiative is to help other players and promote a fun and friendly environment for new players. Being part of a rushing team against new players is not a fun environment.

My definition of a rusher(s) is when a team is full and a player join the opposition. Said full team rushes that player with out waiting for his team to fill up. If there is a better term for this then we need to figure it out.

Assaulting would be when teams are even and one team assaults the other immediately.

**StompArtist** · 12-02-2011, 11:58 AM

I fished out the Wikipedia definition of a "rusher" and it doesn't fit the discussions here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_(video_games)

**Fac3bon3s** · 12-02-2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by StompArtist

I fished out the Wikipedia definition of a "rusher" and it doesn't fit the discussions here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_(video_games)

There is no definition for the term on a whole for any genre of gaming but this I find is the closest relation.

In massively-multiplayer online first-person-shooter (MMOFPS), this also describes the masses of hundreds of players in massive, unorganized squabble in effort to win by gross numerical superiority.

We obviously do not have hundreds but the idea is the same.

**Iron Hand** · 12-02-2011, 12:08 PM

Lol... I see this is a widely debated subject.. i have n.o problem with the way ppl play... i have a problem with the game itself and respawning delay... For me that is a techinal issue for the devs to tweak... Wether it be delaying attcks until the player is completey spawned on to the board or have random spawning areas within the team zone or something of a safe area... Other wise the challenge of taking on a playr's tactics for me is cool just have to figure out a strategy to compete...

**Ellyidol** · 12-02-2011, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by StompArtist

I fished out the Wikipedia definition of a "rusher" and it doesn't fit the discussions here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_(video_games)

It's actually spot on, though different from the understanding here IMO.

Even that type of rushing is seen as unfair to some, I don't know why. I remember playing a few matches in RTS games where as soon as the game starts (usually 1v1), my opponent says "No rush plz". I proceed to rush him and get the easy win. Since when has speed been unfair?

Anyway, back to topic. The real issue isn't about rushing itself, IMO, but about how unbalanced a team fight can be. The only real issue I see is when a fight is allowed to start when teams aren't even (numerically). Other issues like a team member not willing to help, is not a technical issue anymore. The spawning issue is a technical issue.

**Fac3bon3s** · 12-02-2011, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ellyidol

It's actually spot on, though different from the understanding here IMO.

Anyway, back to topic. The real issue isn't about rushing itself, IMO, but about how unbalanced a team fight can be. The only real issue I see is when a fight is allowed to start when teams aren't even (numerically). Other issues like a team member not willing to help, is not a technical issue anymore. The spawning issue is a technical issue.

This is the point I am also debating for. Just to make it clear.

**Kahlua** · 12-02-2011, 12:45 PM

Can we all agree that the REAL issue behind this whole thing is stats and the leaderboards?

If there were no stats (cannot wait till we can hide them) and no leaderboards, people would just play for the sake of playing. Have stats per game, whatever, it's cool enough seeing your name at the top of the game. But if they never saved to your account for everyone to see, no one would care if you have a 1.00 KDR. I would find it fun to be able to take on a 3 vs 1 and see how many I could drop. But I don't want my stats to reflect it because it makes me look like I'm not any good at the game. 2 vs 1...I'll do that for a while to see how it goes, and then leave. Some people don't care if people think they're bad, but people like me unfortunately do. It's a mix of anxiety + wanting positive feedback from others. No one knows if your 10k kills were from 'rushing' or from spending 6 years doing ready set go 1 vs 1. If there were no stats and people didn't care, it would be a lot more fun and no one would whine about getting rushed.

Hell, even make a game type with no stats at all. Like ranked and unranked.

**Ellyidol** · 12-02-2011, 12:48 PM

You may be partially right Kahlua, but I still think that even without stats, these issues will act as a deterrent to people getting into PvP.

I would personally hate and have my playing experience ruined if I were to get camped and rushed on all the time.

**Kahlua** · 12-02-2011, 12:51 PM

well yeah the issues would still be there, but people wouldn't be throwing temper tantrums about it as much. It would just be a nuisance that would inevitably get dealt with if there was no death count. Plus I feel as though people wouldn't use such harsh kill tactics if there was no kills statistic.

**StompArtist** · 12-02-2011, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Fac3bon3s

There is no definition for the term on a whole for any genre of gaming but this I find is the closest relation.

We obviously do not have hundreds but the idea is the same.

Oh. Thank you so much. Now I get a clearer idea. I wasn't sure anymore if "rush" didn't mean "not waiting for someone to say I am ready".

**Fac3bon3s** · 12-02-2011, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by StompArtist

Oh. Thank you so much. Now I get a clearer idea. I wasn't sure anymore if "rush" didn't mean "not waiting for someone to say I am ready".

No, No. If teams are even and you get killed because you were not ready. That is a whole different issue, and from my perspective does not warrant a complaint. Rushing IMO is what I posted above. When teams are unbalanced and the more populated team rushes the other because they know they have the numbers in their favour.

**Hullukko** · 12-03-2011, 03:37 AM

For a game that's packed with people from both ends of the spectrum and plagued by stat boosting, I find it odd that there seems to be so much room for bad behaviour (like 3 vs 1 rushing) and so few tools to counter it (leaving, while you can't even chat before joining the teams, sheesh)

Quake had better PvP interface back in 1997, 14 years ago. This is not beta by a long shot, barely alfa. The interface and how it works is appalling by today's standards.

And to your boxing analogies... boxing is still a rather well mannered sports, something I most certainly cannot say about the pvp here. One seldom sees three guys jumping on one when he's entering the ring with a towel over his head. Heck, swinging before the gong even when one on one would have some serious consequences.

Having a level start and keeping the matches quick and hasty are most certainly not orthogonal. Rocket arena anyone? Timed start, nice entry queue, and most certainly fair starts.

Why isn't there a map that would be "no stat effect for kills/deaths"? Could be the same map with a different name. We'd get rid of most of the childish nonsense in one fell swoop.

**THE Tesla** · 12-03-2011, 09:53 AM

So I was reading this for a while and I just had to give up, every post is basically the same "I don't think ppl should rush, I still have to put my makeup on", " in the arena its a bloodbath, u have to use your animalistic instinct and kill kill kill!!!" Well, I say that don't go into an arena if you are not rea tody to fight. The only time I see "rushing" as a bad thing is when the teams are uneven, a ready button with a timer should really be implemented to keep this whole issue from ever having to take place... unless of course ppl begin to complain they were not ready after hitting the ready button..

**DJMdivine** · 12-03-2011, 10:32 AM

To tell ya the truth whoever in this community started this "wait for eachother then go" kinda thing ruined
PvP alltogether in pocket legends. I dislike PvP in PL and now what could be next SL because you think sitting there typing go is making a difference when eveyone could be having SUPREMELY AWESOME FULL OUT TEAMS DUKING IT OUT! Rushing? What a stupid term... Just play the game and have fun... If you guys are getting mad over rushing you've got a problem because this have been in tons of MMORPG's for years... Oh ya, to the whole community! This is also the reason we probably dont have PvP rewards or never will at all! Because PvP is so boring, you made it boring, and therefore no one will have the long sustaining interest it should hold.

**Hullukko** · 12-03-2011, 02:09 PM

Suggestion:
"rushing" no countdown, just go and fight with even teams
"raping/aholing" 3vs1 rushing

I believe it's the latter that people are disgusted by and it's the former that people here try to defend.

Personally, I strongly believe that the pace of game can be even faster if there's little assistance in team formation and fair starting coming from the game. It was really well done long ago in quake rocket arenas.
I don't understand why SL (or PL) has to has such an imbecil mechanism to start a game that rewards misbehaviour and repulses new people away from it.

**Fortress** · 12-03-2011, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by javier995

Already?

Come on first day and my I get my first 2 deaths by some Rushers???

Why do they rush for? What do they gain? IMO if you want to rush go to PL!

Smh come on guys really play fair!

How is it that on the first day there are Rushers already? Are they scared to play fair?

The way I deal with Rushers from now on will be this way

I will destroy the ratio, no questions asked.

Now tell me, do you rush? Be honest, and why do you rush?

Honestly, I haven't PvPed yet, but I sure wouldn't want to be rushed....

Don't worry, Javier! You'll destroy that ratio and be on the leaderboards!! (for pvp of course) :P