Official Feedback Thread for Purchasing High and Low level Dungeon Access

[Zeus]

^
I'm not trying to police your comments. I wanted to say this from my original post, but why are you debating my feedback? It was feedback, not a debate thread. I love debates myself, but this is not the place for it. (I'm not interested in having a debate on this thread, but will gladly do it through PM.) If you have feedback of your own, post it. But otherwise, why are you trying to convince others on how they should look at it? If the developers see each person's view, they will find a happy medium for it. That's all. I didn't PM you this because you stated earlier that you don't receive PM's?

[Aikiebo]

^
I'm not trying to police your comments. I wanted to say this from my original post, but why are you debating my feedback? It was feedback, not a debate thread. I love debates myself, but this is not the place for it. If you have feedback of your own, post it. But otherwise, why are you trying to convince others on how they should look at it? If the developers see each person's view, they will find a happy medium for it. That's all. I didn't PM you this because you stated earlier that you don't receive PM's?

Apollo, lol, I"m not for sure what to do here. If you guys, don't want me to like discuss what you say, say i agree with this,, or i disagree with that or w/e, then I won't. I'm ok with that. It's up to you. AND I'M ONLY RESPONDING TO YOU NOW CUZ YOU ASKED ME A DIRECT QUESTION. I'm really ok, not discussing someone's opinion if they don't want to be open to a challenge. Lol, idc. Some people just want to state their opinon. They don't care what others think and they don't really want others disagreeing with them directly. I.e. They don't have time for a debate, they are just sayin w/e they sayin. I'm ok with that. Totally understand.

I don't really understand, are you saying 1. no feedback should be debated or 2. people shouldn't debate your feed back? Maybe you haven't been reading THIS ENTIRE THREAD. It is full of people debating all sorts of issues relating to this topic. That is what people have been doing on this feed back topic and almost all feed back topics.

You have directly asked my why I was debating your feedback: answer

1. There have been debates on this thread from the beginning.

2. Most feedback threads have debates.

3. I always thought you were a real nice guy and open minded and didn't mind debating you opinins.

If you don't want me to I won't. Or, if you think that it should be in another thread. That is great. I'm waaayyy into that. But, we will have to ask the dev's if that is ok, because they want us to discuss things on this thread.

But, why discuss it in pm? Because people are disagreeing with you? I have said MANY times that I get pm's. I get em all the time on this device. I can only send pm when i log onto a pc. Which is not that often. But, I'm getting a pc for xmas. So, I'll be able to post a lot more than.

But, no reason to hide this debate from other people.

I'm not sure I'm trying to convince others of anything any more than you are. For that matter not any more than anyone else is.... hence the "debate part".

The forum rules say that the purpose of the forum is to foster open discussion and debate. It's in the first paragraph. But, like I said, I won't respond to your posts if you don't want. I'm way ok with that. It's really up to you.

Yes, I agree, all this ultimately up to the devs. They know what is best for the game.

I wish you lots of luck and fun.

[Zeus]

Apollo, lol, I"m not for sure what to do here. If you guys, don't want me to like discuss what you say, say i agree with this,, or i disagree with that or w/e, then I won't. I'm ok with that. It's up to you. AND I'M ONLY RESPONDING TO YOU NOW CUZ YOU ASKED ME A DIRECT QUESTION. I'm really ok, not discussing someone's opinion if they don't want to be open to a challenge. Lol, idc. Some people just want to state their opinon. They don't care what others think and they don't really want others disagreeing with them directly. I.e. They don't have time for a debate, they are just sayin w/e they sayin. I'm ok with that. Totally understand.

I don't really understand, are you saying 1. no feedback should be debated or 2. people shouldn't debate your feed back? Maybe you haven't been reading THIS ENTIRE THREAD. It is full of people debating all sorts of issues relating to this topic. That is what people have been doing on this feed back topic and almost all feed back topics.

You have directly asked my why I was debating your feedback: answer

1. There have been debates on this thread from the beginning.

2. Most feedback threads have debates.

3. I always thought you were a real nice guy and open minded and didn't mind debating you opinins.

If you don't want me to I won't. Or, if you think that it should be in another thread. That is great. I'm waaayyy into that. But, we will have to ask the dev's if that is ok, because they want us to discuss things on this thread.

But, why discuss it in pm? Because people are disagreeing with you? I have said MANY times that I get pm's. I get em all the time on this device. I can only send pm when i log onto a pc. Which is not that often. But, I'm getting a pc for xmas. So, I'll be able to post a lot more than.

But, no reason to hide this debate from other people.

I'm not sure I'm trying to convince others of anything any more than you are. For that matter not any more than anyone else is.... hence the "debate part".

The forum rules say that the purpose of the forum is to foster open discussion and debate. It's in the first paragraph. But, like I said, I won't respond to your posts if you don't want. I'm way ok with that. It's really up to you.

Yes, I agree, all this ultimately up to the devs. They know what is best for the game.

I wish you lots of luck and fun.

My stance is that feedback shouldn't be debated. Why? It's feedback. That means it's subjective. You are entitled to your own feedback; I am entitled to my own feedback. No, I'm not saying for my own face that we should debate in private, because I don't really care what people think of me. The only thing that upsets me is when people hate me. That is not the case. My point though is, that they asked for our own feedback.

So, what I'm saying essentially is, if it's feedback they are asking for. Give your feedback and be done with it. I don't have the time to nitpick and argue my points and reasoning why. I'm not saying for you not to debate with me, as I do enjoy your debates/questioning posts. I'm saying in a thread where debate is not needed and personal opinion is asked to better the game, why can't you just state yours and let others have their own opinions? Is it really too much to ask? Mind you, in this thread, I think I fulfilled that and didn't question other's feedback.

[Aikiebo]

My stance is that feedback shouldn't be debated. Why? It's feedback. That means it's subjective. You are entitled to your own feedback; I am entitled to my own feedback. No, I'm not saying for my own face that we should debate in private, because I don't really care what people think of me. The only thing that upsets me is when people hate me. That is not the case. My point though is, that they asked for our own feedback.

So, what I'm saying essentially is, if it's feedback they are asking for. Give your feedback and be done with it. I don't have the time to nitpick and argue my points and reasoning why. I'm not saying for you not to debate with me, as I do enjoy your debates/questioning posts. I'm saying in a thread where debate is not needed and personal opinion is asked to better the game, why can't you just state yours and let others have their own opinions? Is it really too much to ask? Mind you, in this thread, I think I fulfilled that and didn't question other's feedback.

Apollo, dude.... I'm not sure what you want me to do, lol. You keep telling me that you don't want me or I guess anyone to respond to/debate your opinions. You want them to lie still and be undisturbed.

I keep saying, "OK".

I keep saying, "that's fine with me, idc"

This is beginning to feel like entrapment, lol lol

If you don't want me to respond to your opinions, I won't. I got no problem with that. Which I said immediately and several times now.

BUT THEN YOU KEEP ASKING ME DIRECT QUESTIONS, lol. So.. .I respond not to your "no-challenge feedback" but to your direct questions, and you seem to be upset at me for that.

That is why -- 2x -- now, I have said I am not sure exactly what you want me to do. I will now add, I am not sure what you are upset at. I keep complying with your every wish, lol.

You said that "feedback shouldn't be debated, why because it is feedback, because it is subjective, because you are entitled to have your feed back and I am entitled to have my feedback".

But you could say the SAME EXACT THING about opinions. Opinions are subjective. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But opinions are debated. So just cuz something is subjective doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated. (In fact proven objective facts can't be debated) Yeah, we all entitled sure.. I agree.

Then you said that the reason you wanted this debated in private is NOT becuase you care what others think about you (as long as they don't hate ya..No on hates you, Apollo, not at all)

Usually when someone is trying to silence a debate is is because they don't want others hearing both sides of the issue. This way the status quo stays in tact. Things don't change and get better when open debate is stiffled. Now, I HONESTLY don't believe that the idea to stiffle open debate is coming from you. I don't believe for a second that you are that kind of guy.

So then you repeat the idea the idea that people shold just state feed back and be done with it. I am not sure that is exactly an STS rule. I think that is how a couple of people are interpreting it.

1. All feedback threads have debate.
2. This thread was full of debate till you said it was time to stop.
3. Feed back is almost useless if it is left static, dormant, undisturbed which is what you are suggesting. (But if you don't want me to respond to yours I wont)

Why is it bad to let feedback rot while laying idle somewhere?

Because it gets bette as more and more people add to it.

Example: Early into this thread a few people suggested that the 1 plat new elixrs be moved to the bottom of the list with the other 1 plat elixrs.

Eventually, someone (moi) suggested: that until we have 30 minute and 60 minute choices, plz, plz, plz leave the 1 plat choices at top. Cuz I am not, repeat, am not going to scroll thru the whole list every 5 minutes. People will hardly ever use these elixrs if way down on the bottom. Too much like clerical work.

So now, STS has the feed back: Please move 1 plat choices to bottom of list.

But, imo anyway, a great addition to that idea: Sure, go ahead and move to the bottom of the list as soon as we have 30 min or 60 min choices.

So, each piece of feed back stays separate and intact as stand alone ideas. But, the second one is considered by some to be an improvement. The devs can look at both ideas then do w/e they think is best.

There are numerous other examples of this that I could give you from this thread alone. Plus from tons of other feedback threds. You know, in the business world this is how feedback usually works. Groups of people feed off of each others ideas till a good final one is thought of.

I don't belive for a seond that STS is really trying to stiffle discussion. There have been several harsh remarks to that affect on this thread, that I don't think is true.

You suggested that "I should let other people have their ideas", hmmmm.... debate, as stated above, leaves each piece of feed back in tact. People still have their opinions. There is no way ON EARTH that I could take someone's opinion or feedback from them. It's not possible. Opinions can be stiffled if I wanted to act all rude and obnoxious and manipulate and/or intimidate people. But that is a whole nuther matter.

You ended your last post by saying that in this thread you didn't question other people's feedback. Well, true, except. ......... you questioned mine, lol lol. Which is fine. I'm very open minded and not opposed to debate. So, I don't care that you questioned it, in fact I'm glad you did. I think your awesome and have no problem with the fact that you challenged some of my ideas.

Take it easy, have fun.

[RedRyder]

Woah there buddy, I merely implied that everyone needs to relax. It's a game, things change in games like this all the time, and STS jumps in to fix things. Everyone's jumping on the "STS are gluttons for $$$" train, and are bashing the life out of STS for trying to accommodate the casual audience. If no one complained however, STS wouldn't know what to fix.

Stop arguing back and forth so hard. The criticism is becoming less and less constructive. All everyone is doing is expanding the time that all of this is going to get fixed, with STS having to weed out the bad from the good.

I'm sure we can all agree that the best solution would be to just disable kills outside of the campaign of the toons appropriate level when the elixir is in use. For the elite cap issue, make the xp gain able ONLY in the campaign of the current level cap.

[kallima]

AIKIEBO -

I just have a question, because it seems to me, and I know that can not be the case but I must ask because this is what I have gathered from reading ALL your lengthy posts that you think your opinion is of more value than anyone elses. I ask this, even though I know it must not be true, because you have been monopolizing this entire thread since it was created. I scroll through the thread and my screen can not fit even one of your posts. Please, if this is not the case, I apologize but you say every one has a voice and every opinion counts but you drown out others' concise ideas with an overly long reply. Most people on here, are giving their feedback to the DEVELOPERS, and if you are a dev gone incognito, I apologize but why must they discuss/reply/debate/justify their opinions to you? Again, if this is not the case, but it sure seems to me it is, yet I know that it can not be, I am sorry but that is how I am taking it.

You say that you don't understand why some people want to control others gameplay yet you sit there and type that too many are over-reacting and complaining. Are you not complaining about our reactions? Again, it seems to me that you don't want people to control others yet you are saying that everyone is overreacting? I did not realize I could not express my opinion and just because it disagrees with yours, that means I'm overreacting. Don't tell me how I'm feeling or how I should feel, even though I know that can not be true, because it would be awful and I don't think you are this way, but is that what you are doing? Telling others how to feel.

I am happy that we both agree that everyone has an opinion because it's win-win right? That's good. Let everyone express how they feel and no one should have to justify it to another player since this is a thread for US to give our thoughts to the developers, not debate this with one person that is overwhelming this thread. I am glad you do not twist words because I don't like it when people do that me either. This is a good thing.

Hope everything works out well for you.

[Whirlzap]

Guys too much anger and essay ness here.
This is now the post your epic new elix modified char thread.
I'll go first.

Xwhirlz
Lv99(in 5 hours on new elix)
Plat Used: 99999999
Feelings: Other than the huge hole in my wallet, I feel great. Oh crap, now it's sinking in.

can't we just do that^?

Anyways, in responce DX

-First of all, there are other ways to make profit, about 40% of the whole higher level end of game players are on 4x Combo 24/7. Second of all, they don't have to literally make the game so easy a little kid could do it, just to make money.

-STS has done many great and impressive things from the past. I'm respecting that, but the quality of the things they do now, just isn't what it used to be.

Can we look at the new vanity armor? I'd rather wear some newb gear rather than that on my mage.

Can we remember all the "wowthisnewlv61vanityshieldlookshorribleandsuc ks." threads that were made? Yep.
Can we remember the OMFGhalloweenstuffarebroughtbackagain? Yes, we can.

I get the feeling STS is slacking off now. Same campaign layouts, and yep, 2-3 months, to push peeps that used to not use elixirs to start using them. I know of many friends that ended up having to pot 4x.

What else can I say?
Same drops, just new names.
Same holiday items, and maps. Yay. But OMG, the only thing that changed was the stuff from PLATINUM PACKS.
Hmm, I wonder what this means....

Oh, by the way, this post is constructive feedback. There is no vulgar language, so I don't see any reason to uhh, delete this post.

[Aikiebo]

AIKIEBO -

1. ALL your lengthy posts that you think your opinion is of more value than anyone elses.

2. and if you are a dev gone incognito,

3. yet you are saying that everyone is overreacting?

4. I am happy that we both agree

5. Hope everything works out well for you.

Kalima, thank you for getting back to me!

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. Me too

5. Likewise

Hope this was helpful.

[Decur]

That didn't take long... PvE K/D ratios already tainted...

[saool]

...another opinion...I dislike the shamrock elixir...didn't work...still doesn't, I know this isn't the elixir we are talking about but still.

I bought one to test it out...someone else got the pink that dropped...I got a green drop... -.-

I wasted 20 platinum, yes wasted. I usually use or spend platinum but with the shamrock elixir I WASTED platinum....

Anyways, I also agree with enabling exp gain if you must, but disable kill count. And yadah yadah yadah blah blah blah... I don't like the lixirs...new ones at least. But it didn't mean I will quit playing, or get mad about it just disappointed... ;(

[Moogerfooger]

And as far as the rest of your post is concerned, when is easier better? Aphorisms like "No pain, no gain" and "anything worth having, is worth working for" exist for a reason. Put down the kool-aid this is not summer camp, we are not singing kumbayah - there will be unhappy people with whatever STS decides, but we are trying to save the game we have come to know and love from being a dumbed down version.

Too late, maybe. For example, the other day I was standing in Balefort with the Cyber set on, and I had not one, but two lvl 55+, each with less than 7k kills, ask me where I got my Cyber set, and when I tried to explain "Go find Shadow ? Guy in the room where King Mynas spawns on Crush the Keeper" and neither was clear on what I meant, and one even asked me to go show them.

I think Red's suggestion was best. Disable kill farming/counts outside level-appropriate if they are going to keep these ill-advised elixirs. The LB's integrity is already somewhat suspect, now one can just buy their way onto the LBs with some plat and a little time. I do like the 'level-anywhere' possibility for people grinding to end game in a sense, to break up the monotony...because it is monotonous....but in my opinion, the cons outweigh the pros. It used to be that people at end-game were pretty dang good at their toons, even non-forumers...now you have no such guarantee, and this certainly will not improve the overall skill level. Casual player fun factor may be up, but overall skill level of population diminishing rapidly.

I think I heard Royce turning over in his PL grave somewhere

[Yvonnel]

Too late, maybe. For example, the other day I was standing in Balefort with the Cyber set on, and I had not one, but two lvl 55+, each with less than 7k kills, ask me where I got my Cyber set, and when I tried to explain "Go find Shadow ? Guy in the room where King Mynas spawns on Crush the Keeper" and neither was clear on what I meant, and one even asked me to go show them.

I have actually had this same thing happen a couple of times in the last couple months. It is a shame actually. However, I see how this happens, people join while cap is 60 and they rush grind to level cap. They fail to explore all of the different maps, or do the quests. I have actually started doing the quests for all my twinks. Get all the quests done up to the specific maps their level is capped at.

I think I heard Royce turning over in his PL grave somewhere

LOL! You are probably right!

Tapatalk'd from my PowerWashed Fascinate

[Weak_Sauce]

doesn't anybody realize these leaderboard names are from turning off the xp bar and farming kills? this option has been nurfed a while ago. nobody can hit the leaders for most kills now because of that. why protect it?

Flat out wrong. May be true for some but to lump all on leaderboards into that statement is ignorant.

[Weak_Sauce]

What if you don't have enough players so you need to leave the game open? What if the maker of the game goes MIA and no one can boot? What if you made a game but no one was joining so you chose to join someone else's? Sure if you host you can boot anyone you want but what if there isn't anyone to boot? I almost always host and I've had this issue many times so I choose to join others games. Again, I could always leave a game if I'm unhappy but what if I'm half-way through and I don't want to abandon the work I've put in thus far?

Finally, coming from the era when any level could join any game, I had to boot feverishly so that a friend or player at the correct level could join. Everytime a spot was open it was a constant rush of low leveled players coming in saying "Don't boot!"

You do realize that most games last 3 - 6 minutes.

Do you realize that the post of mine you quoted was speaking to a very specific situation? A player who I thought might be a newer player was in a map with a higher level who was rude to him. The op was saying that he couldn't get any kills cuz of this high level player, so I was suggesting ways he could remedy that problem.

STS has given us a whole list of ways to limit / choose who we play with. Hosting, locking, world map, quest log, passwords, friends list, guild list. .. I mean, it's not that hard to make or find a group that you can live with for 3 minutes.

Anyone who was around during Mynas Gen should have an AMAZING and WONDERFUL friends list. Plus have made decent enough contacts/friends to be in a really great guild. I can't believe it is that hard for you to get a group.

Wasn't referring to myself exclusively, although I have experienced all of these things, but to all players of any level. My statement was more hypothetical...

[Weak_Sauce]

There's an aspect I didn't even think of, yet another issue with new elixers.

And no Epic, no one has the right to call anyone a noob. The only people who call people by that name are the actual noobs.

Uhh. I actually call a couple of people noob all the time. I happen to have a couple of friends on my friend list that have noob in their name, and I call them "Noob".

Oh for the love of god, I'm not talking about friends teasing eachother or anyone who has noob in their name. I'm hoping this statement was a joke as it is blatently obvious I am referring to people using the term as a put down to players they don't know or are not friendly enough with to feel comfortable teasing them in such a manner.


On a whole other note I wish people would stop using the argument that this change is great because now you don't HAVE to run the same campaign over and over to level up.

Guess what, you don't HAVE to level up. If you don't want to run the same campaign over and over and do the work to level then don't. But don't come at the people who do level that way and want to get rid of the new elixers with the argument that the way we play is too tedious.

If you choose to level then you level in the campaign and play the game as intended, if you think that's too much work then don't level. Just like anything else in life not everyone is going to make it to the top and there are always people who take activities they're passionate about more seriously than others.

Not everyone is a pro athelete for a reason and yet sports are fun for people around the world without them reaching the elite pro status. People play as much as they can and only push themselves if they have a goal that they want to obtain, but everyone has to work hard at this "fun" activity to get to the top.

Same difference...

Getting to the top level isn't necessary to play the game and people are free to play in a way that's comfortable to them. Those people just have to realize that the game isn't going to change so that a guy who plays basketball on weekends for a hour or two can be drafted into the big leagues. He simply didn't earn the right to be there and had he been allowed to join the NBA you better believe all of the guys who dedicated their lives to the sport wouldn't be pleased with the outcome.


Lastly, on a whole other note... If the people who use any of the other elixers for nominal ammounts of platinum or use the elixers which you can buy with gold they have to scroll all the way down... Why should these be any different?

[StompArtist]

Keeping in this trend of XP gains in level "inappropriate" dungeons: Would there be a chance of making it so we can gain kills in a level appropriate dungeons with a character that is XP locked?

[StompArtist]

Oh for the love of god, I'm not talking about friends teasing eachother or anyone who has noob in their name. I'm hoping this statement was a joke as it is blatently obvious I am referring to people using the term as a put down to players they don't know or are not friendly enough with to feel comfortable teasing them in such a manner.

Noob! LOL

[Yvonnel]

Oh for the love of god, I'm not talking about friends teasing eachother or anyone who has noob in their name. I'm hoping this statement was a joke as it is blatently obvious I am referring to people using the term as a put down to players they don't know or are not friendly enough with to feel comfortable teasing them in such a manner.

Ummmmm...... Obvious Sarcasm, or so I thought.

Tapatalk'd from my PowerWashed Fascinate

[Samhayne]

Hey gang,

Thanks for your feedback and our apologies we haven't been in here answering questions more frequently. Suffice to say, we hear you. We know that not everyone is going to like everything we do. Just to reiterate, our main thrust with this change is to give low level players the option to play with higher level friends or vice versa. We're changing the price up to 5 Plat to give a bit more barrier to entry for this feature.

Thanks in advance for keeping the conversation friendly and constructive.

[PatsoeGamer]

I've been away for the weekend and come back to PL. I subscribe to the forum via RSS and there's been a lot of activity. So as I like to read everyones comments and thoughts, and listen and interact with the best community out in the world I thought I would just give my opinion. So those you've got to know me over the year or so should know I'm not one for confrontation, so here are my comments on this update:

I feel sorry for the players who've been affected by the kill rates, even though I have 70k kills, they have all come from being in the top point of the game at highest level, and my deaths only just went over 1K in nuri's, but I'm still proud of them. Just like Decur said it is a shame, I like Dec too whenever I'm in game at CS I always say hi, and actually, I would always look up to Dec as he's always working hard in game, during maps he's always trying his best.

Ellyidol and Apollo have some very good points also, I mean I remember the mynas stage too when low levels would be so annoying and booting people was out of control. I agree with Ellyidol to make the xp scaled for the lower levels. At the same time it would be fun to join lower level players and help them out whilst still getting xp, which I really only do now when I hit the cap because the grind is quite long. I'm not sure why we should pay plat to get xp in lower levels, which is why I agree with Elly, scale it as I think a lot of people wont run the new dungeons when they get released.

Finally, the kill leaderboard.. put a stop to the kill count on that elixer, its not fair on the players who've worked incredibly hard to get there.

--- Side note: This is something I've wanted to ask for a while...

Do the dev's work with the AoA's or GOA's with their ideas prior to the release? I think it would be a good idea if they dont already, because these players are the ones who are most influencial, and who have a personal attachment to the game, they care. They want PL to be the best game ever, one thats remembered with all the other greats. I can honestly say that ever since I started I have played every day and I love this game, but sadly just like Appollo said, its started to become a little revenue driven. I'm not to worried about that, but I think that as long as there is still something for the casual gamer who's not all about spending money thats fine. The latest releases have seen players leave, arguements on the forums between players. I think if we got these GOA's or AoA's involved in some of the planning prior to the releases and there was testing for these players, these immediate errors could be quickly identified. In this case I think the most immediate error is the kill count - if a panel was in place they would have quickly flagged it with the devs and players would have been happier