Global Mage Balance Suggestion!

[MageFFA]

I don't think this thread needs a full on intro on why mages should be nerfed but I will give it a run down.

Critical: Mages Crit is unrivaled without a doubt. While most classes can barely top 300 on a critical attack Mages easily can drop 400-600 on simple skills such as Frost and fire, while major damage skills like drain and lightning are landing for 700-750. These random Super Criticals can absolutely obliterate the oppentent without any chance of fighting back to win.

Examples: In 15 a bear who has been hit by a paw proc (-25 Armor reduction) can be followed up by a 200-300 Critical attack on light and drain that will kill them easily. In 27 even when Crushing blowed( Damage and Dodge reduction) mages can still sneak in a 200 Lightning followed by sometimes a 400 critical drain. In L.30-45 it is no where near uncommon to get 1 shot by a 500-600 Critical Drain, Lightning, Fire, or even frost. If that wasn't enough mages can also drop 700 critical drains which is 300 more crit than the highest landed crit a fox has landed on a player, fox being the second strongest class in twink. In L.30-45 Honor it is more balanced but critical is still a issue as we see mages landing 469 critical on just a mere frost.

Hit%: A minor problem compared to the rest. Mages hit actually broken. My L.30 War bird has 89 base Hit% but since it's a bird I can buff my Hit% with focus. Now since I'm buffing up to 105 I can still lose alot of hit from another birds blind skill. A single blind from another bird leaves me powerless to fight back yet in the same situation a mage with 99% Hit is not effected by blind what so ever. I've Blinded a mage -30 Hit with 2 Forgotten Bow procs -15 stacked (-60 Hit reduction in total) yet I was still nuked by drain light fire right after.

Armor: Mages armor value is extreme. Another major problem on this list is the fact that mages can tank full combos such as beck stomp, shatter blast, rabid ham, and charge redemption without taking any significant damage. Beck stomp in 27 does not effect my mage at all. In 35 while most bears use maximum dmg, I can use ms to tank most of the damage while using combos to nuke them. In 30-40 Honor mages CANNOT be nuked by a singlar combo. Even being able to tank 2 consecutive bird combos without needing to heal and ms alot. 105 needs no comment as we see dex mages unable to be killed by dex bears or str bears.

I could easily bring up more topics and examples so these are just a few. My input for what I think the nerf should be is

25% Critical Reduction
12% Base Damage Reduction
5-8% Hit Reduction
Armor reduction of 15%

Comment on what you guys think the nerf should look like

[burntoutdex]

Cannot fault that. These suggestions should be trialed for one to two weeks to see how it affects pvp across the board.

Heal missing should also be fixed if that's still an issue. (Can't remember if it got fixed.)

[Draebatad]

Cannot fault that. These suggestions should be trialed for one to two weeks to see how it affects pvp across the board.

Nice detailed rebalance suggestions, op.

Cinco said he won't have any time for issues like this until after the 110 cap, but that is not far off at this point in time.

I'm a big proponent of trial testing. In this case, try out suggested rebalances, and see how they work.

Birds should also get some buffing whenever they get around to balancing the mage class.


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[burntoutdex]

Nice detailed rebalance suggestions, op.

Cinco said he won't have any time for issues like this until after the 110 cap, but that is not far off at this point in time.

I'm a big proponent of trial testing. In this case, try out suggested rebalances, and see how they work.

Birds should also get some buffing whenever they get around to balancing the mage class.

We are happy to wait for balance, it's only natural that the cap should be perfected first.

The easiest buff for bird would be to replace meditation in the way detailed by Dolloway in the other thread.. and trial that also.

[Draebatad]

Cam,

Would you please quote Dolloway's suggestion in this thread, just for easy access by all who read this thread?


Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

[burntoutdex]

Cam,

Would you please quote Dolloway's suggestion in this thread, just for easy access by all who read this thread?

Good idea! I need eleven.

I do not think there needs to be a new skill made - we can just use the existing one (Meditation). While I do partially agree with Quality and Burningdex, I also believe the skill needs a risk component as well to make it balanced (a self armor debuff, as the skill was intended when originally created).

L1 5dmg 1 crit, -1 armor
L2 10dmg 2crit, -2 armor
L3 15dmg 4crit, -4 armor
L4 20dmg 6crit, -6 armor
L5 25dmg 8crit, -8 armor
L6 30dmg 10crit, -10 armor

Level 7-9 could be scaled as follows:
L7: 35 dmg, 12 crit, -12 armor
L8: 40 dmg, 14 crit, -14 armor
L9: 45 dmg, 16 crit, -20 armor

The highest level offers the highest risk/reward element in the game with a self-debuff of -20 armor as compared to the -14 at level 8.

The same could apply to rhinos' Divine Aura as well, who tend to struggle in low level PVP, even above level 30. Both changes would be greatly more useful in both PVP and PVE for both classes and could go a long way in making rhinos and archers viable in low level PVP once more.

[burntoutdex]

I started making a collection of imgur albums to compare average damage across classes..

I say average damage because these some 30 photos were taken in the span of 4games..

Statistically: 7.5 kills a game were insta kills

No one in this set of matches was using max damage - this isn't anywhere close to the max damage you can do on any class.

https://imgur.com/gallery/LWUupjd

I'll add more here as i play more, i'll most likely do honour tomorrow night and get some there.

[MageFFA]

I started making a collection of imgur albums to compare average damage across classes..

I say average damage because these some 30 photos were taken in the span of 4games..

Statistically: 7.5 kills a game were insta kills

No one in this set of matches was using max damage - this isn't anywhere close to the max damage you can do on any class.

https://imgur.com/gallery/LWUupjd

I'll add more here as i play more, i'll most likely do honour tomorrow night and get some there.

Most of that fight I was just using ms drain to 1 shot or ms drain fire to get a Insta kill.

[burntoutdex]

Most of that fight I was just using ms drain to 1 shot or ms drain fire to get a Insta kill.

You beat me using 2damage skills the entire game. lol.

[MageFFA]

We will be posting more screen shots in a bit. Quick overview of what happened lately.

I recently made a 15 mage after merching off a L.15 Paw and Evi. In L.15 while mages aren't as OP as they are in 27 and 30-40 they still have their moments. I've drained Iron Blood (Armor and Health buff) Bears for over 200 crit consistently and has easily beaten some 18 bears which would have been next to impossible to do back some 3+ years. Fbow bears Proc doesn't effect me as it should and other mage can be hit by a large barrage of critical attacks from drain and fire. Safe to say 15 is no different outside of the facts that 15 bears are always reigning L.15 PvP as the best class, though mages do come closer than ever now.

[Yogaa]

Cinco is busy now making a New level cap , it's not the right time for this. If you really want a balance PVP play in honor map.

I believe Cinco will make a perfect PvP system in this new cap so just be patient.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[burntoutdex]

Cinco is busy now making a New level cap , it's not the right time for this. If you really want a balance PVP play in honor map.

I believe Cinco will make a perfect PvP system in this new cap so just be patient.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

He said he would tweak mages after adjusting the 110cap. to do this effectively, he suggested that we make a forum thread. Honour isn't perfectly balanced either, mages are still op, lol

[Snacking]

I don't think this thread needs a full on intro on why mages should be nerfed but I will give it a run down.

Critical: Mages Crit is unrivaled without a doubt. While most classes can barely top 300 on a critical attack Mages easily can drop 400-600 on simple skills such as Frost and fire, while major damage skills like drain and lightning are landing for 700-750. These random Super Criticals can absolutely obliterate the oppentent without any chance of fighting back to win.

Examples: In 15 a bear who has been hit by a paw proc (-25 Armor reduction) can be followed up by a 200-300 Critical attack on light and drain that will kill them easily. In 27 even when Crushing blowed( Damage and Dodge reduction) mages can still sneak in a 200 Lightning followed by sometimes a 400 critical drain. In L.30-45 it is no where near uncommon to get 1 shot by a 500-600 Critical Drain, Lightning, Fire, or even frost. If that wasn't enough mages can also drop 700 critical drains which is 300 more crit than the highest landed crit a fox has landed on a player, fox being the second strongest class in twink. In L.30-45 Honor it is more balanced but critical is still a issue as we see mages landing 469 critical on just a mere frost.

Hit%: A minor problem compared to the rest. Mages hit actually broken. My L.30 War bird has 89 base Hit% but since it's a bird I can buff my Hit% with focus. Now since I'm buffing up to 105 I can still lose alot of hit from another birds blind skill. A single blind from another bird leaves me powerless to fight back yet in the same situation a mage with 99% Hit is not effected by blind what so ever. I've Blinded a mage -30 Hit with 2 Forgotten Bow procs -15 stacked (-60 Hit reduction in total) yet I was still nuked by drain light fire right after.

Armor: Mages armor value is extreme. Another major problem on this list is the fact that mages can tank full combos such as beck stomp, shatter blast, rabid ham, and charge redemption without taking any significant damage. Beck stomp in 27 does not effect my mage at all. In 35 while most bears use maximum dmg, I can use ms to tank most of the damage while using combos to nuke them. In 30-40 Honor mages CANNOT be nuked by a singlar combo. Even being able to tank 2 consecutive bird combos without needing to heal and ms alot. 105 needs no comment as we see dex mages unable to be killed by dex bears or str bears.

I could easily bring up more topics and examples so these are just a few. My input for what I think the nerf should be is

25% Critical Reduction
12% Base Damage Reduction
5-8% Hit Reduction
Armor reduction of 15%

Comment on what you guys think the nerf should look like

If you take off 8% hit from my lvl27 mage it’d be in the low 80’s. No thank you. Maybe it should scale with level.
If this “balance” becomes effective,, mages will literally become useless at lvl22-27 and that is THE MOST active level in pvp. Maybe a nerf is needed but not this significant.
Don’t kill off the what little is left of the pvp community. 27 is almost a safehaven for somewhat balanced pvp. Like I said. Scale it with level.

[burntoutdex]

If you take off 8% hit from my lvl27 mage it’d be in the low 80’s. No thank you. Maybe it should scale with level.
If this “balance” becomes effective,, mages will literally become useless at lvl22-27 and that is THE MOST active level in pvp. Maybe a nerf is needed but not this significant.
Don’t kill off the what little is left of the pvp community. 27 is almost a safehaven for somewhat balanced pvp. Like I said. Scale it with level.

The unfortunate thing is, even after these suggest balances, mages are still going to be far superior to everything else. I also don't understand how you think 27 is even slightly balanced when only one class is half-decent.

80% hit is a lot, very near to the hit% cap too . Perhaps you might remember back in 2011 when dex mages reigned superior at 23-6 because they had hit% from Artisan's Leathers and their dex spec - have you considered using those items? Sure, you might lose 20skill damage, but, i assure you, mages will still 3hit everything after these changes so you don't need to worry about no longer being OP.

[MageFFA]

If you take off 8% hit from my lvl27 mage it’d be in the low 80’s. No thank you. Maybe it should scale with level.
If this “balance” becomes effective,, mages will literally become useless at lvl22-27 and that is THE MOST active level in pvp. Maybe a nerf is needed but not this significant.
Don’t kill off the what little is left of the pvp community. 27 is almost a safehaven for somewhat balanced pvp. Like I said. Scale it with level.

I have to disagree with that statement wofu. I've personally seen you take 2 Fbows proc stacked (-30 Hit in total) while hsed (-30 Hit again) and still end up winning the fight against a bear. Now if we do the math an average 27 mage has what 94-96 Hit right? 96 Highballed subtracted by 60 is 36 hit in total. Let me Highball this even more. Let's say 27 mages have 105 hit in total. Again subtract 105-60 and you'll have a total of 45. Again let's Highball this even more with mages having 130 hit. 130-60 is 70.

98-100 Hit is the absolute most you can have to not miss a single attack unless debuffed. You can play 27 mage pure int( which I did before) and still have enough hit to slap classes like bears and foxes. Now unless mages stats are boosted but not shown visible from attributes I find this dam near impossible to happen.

[P u r e]

You people know WAY to much about PvP number computing....

[MageFFA]

Recently tested Hit% for mages in honor PvP. Shelby my test subject has over 80-85 Hit because he is int dex. I blinded him for -30 Hit and we conducted the test. First Hit% debuff test shelby fired me 4/5 times while under blind which dropped him to 56 base Hit%. The second test only dropped down to 3/5 fires.

Now I don't know about you but unless hit Is broken I can't comprehend how he's landing these attacks with 56 base hit. Anyone of you mage users want to explain?

[burntoutdex]

Just thought i'd leak my mage skillmap:

[burntoutdex]

You people know WAY to much about PvP number computing....

PL PvP is life.

[Snacking]

Yeah hit is broken, but it shouldn’t be nerfed. We’re talking about balancing pvp, and ur wanting to take mages hit into the low 80’s making every fight even more LUCK BASED. It’s just gonna be a roll of the dice whether ur enemies attacks hit, and u just gotta pray urs do,, but yes let’s make pvp even more rng based!!
(Every class has a hit buff besides mage/bear, so it makes sense for them to have decently high hit at low level.)

Also cam,, even the best mages still lose to bear and fox all the time. They’re not just miles ahead of every other class,, but yes I agree they are over powered. Rhinos/birds just can’t hang with any class. It’s just not game breaking to the other main pvp classes at 22-27 as long as they know what they’re doing. Maybe ur just bad at pvp.

P.s. no I haven’t considered using hit% items bc no hit nerf has taken place yet. Maybe in the future tho