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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: just tell the truth, devs...

  1. #21
    Senior Member arcanefid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shocan View Post
    It has been stated next cap there will be a change especially concerning mages
    Yes, I posted the link to that thread in my previous post actually. But it would still be nice to know what kind of changes we can expect? If they're going to be just some buffs and nerfs on current skills then I am definitely not excited, and not expecting things to get better.
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    Senior Member Shocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcanefid View Post
    Yes, I posted the link to that thread in my previous post actually. But it would still be nice to know what kind of changes we can expect? If they're going to be just some buffs and nerfs on current skills then I am definitely not excited, and not expecting things to get better.
    It's not sneak peak time, were it we would know perhaps. It is however not, and had they wanted to disclose said information they would've on first mention of it ^^

  3.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #23
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
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    There will be changes but they’re not going to fundamentally change the fact that 1:1 PvP with interdependent classes with different roles is inherently imbalanced. To be clear: I favor team based PvP and our FFA rules as they serve the basic design concept for each class. Furthermore I accept all responsibility for allowing a flawed 1:1 system to exist in AL that invites imbalanced fights between classes that have entirely different characteristics.

    TLDR - Mages should duel other Mages.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    On the subject of dueling: truly balanced 1vs1 requires both parties use the same class at same level with the same gear. Otherwise due to class roles (which are fundamentally designed to support each other in PvE with different abilities stats and weaknesses) you have inherent imbalance.


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    Lets conduct an experiment.. take a mage and a rogue. Simultaneously Rogue charges aim shot or shadow piercer, either one, and mage charges shield. What will happen? ...mage will get hit before his shield activates. This is just one example of imbalance.

    @arcanefid ..i agree with u there will always be imbalace but some of the differences in skills usefullness are night and day. Have u tried outrunning a rogue even if u have a speed set and she doesnt? Its Impossible. Rogues dont even need speed sets.

    @shocan.. doubt what? u have no idea who i am and ur trash talking me here because ur weak.

  6.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #25
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodinger's cat View Post
    Lets conduct an experiment.. take a mage and a rogue. Simultaneously Rogue charges aim shot or shadow piercer, either one, and mage charges shield. What will happen? ...mage will get hit before his shield activates. This is just one example of imbalance.

    @arcanefid ..i agree with u there will always be imbalace but some of the differences in skills usefullness are night and day. Have u tried outrunning a rogue even if u have a speed set and she doesnt? Its Impossible. Rogues dont even need speed sets.

    @shocan.. doubt what? u have no idea who i am and ur trash talking me here because ur weak.
    So you miss the point of everything I said. Please reread. :-)


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    Senior Member Willl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    There will be changes but they’re not going to fundamentally change the fact that 1:1 PvP with interdependent classes with different roles is inherently imbalanced. To be clear: I favor team based PvP and our FFA rules as they serve the basic design concept for each class. Furthermore I accept all responsibility for allowing a flawed 1:1 system to exist in AL that invites imbalanced fights between classes that have entirely different characteristics.

    TLDR - Mages should duel other Mages.


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    You are right, the problem is that in the past (41, 46 cap mainly) all classes could duel and have balanced fight eachother even between classes. As an old player I would like to have again that conditions, that s what many other players support. Also a revive of FFA would be much appreciated, cause actually its desert map

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    What happened to my post? I had a very valid point about the imbalance between mage and rogue and explained very clrealy that if a mage and rogue both charged and activated their skills simultaneously a mages shield doesnt activate before the rogue strikes him. I also pointed out that even without a speed set a rogue can catch someone who has a speed set.

    @ Cinco...i got the point u basically stated: pvp is imbalanced. I got that and now that uve stated it we can put the debate to rest.. we have the proof. Ty.

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    Forum Adept Browdy666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    There will be changes but they’re not going to fundamentally change the fact that 1:1 PvP with interdependent classes with different roles is inherently imbalanced. To be clear: I favor team based PvP and our FFA rules as they serve the basic design concept for each class. Furthermore I accept all responsibility for allowing a flawed 1:1 system to exist in AL that invites imbalanced fights between classes that have entirely different characteristics.

    TLDR - Mages should duel other Mages.


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    Cinco, could you tell me if you favor team based pvp then why warrior has little advantage there? Let me explain it: we have 4 pets with aa which looks identical as proc of aegis(bubble animation) and also now we have ebon armor chest with almost the same aura it has just a bigger range of aura circle, but it lasts 3s. So when we are in fight its hard to understand where is proc of ebon aegis, where is aa of bunny, and where is proc of ebon armor. Can you please make it same as mages/rogues 3 spheres? I mean both classes will have the same proc animation. 3 flying purple orbs.

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    Senior Member Willl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    There will be changes but they’re not going to fundamentally change the fact that 1:1 PvP with interdependent classes with different roles is inherently imbalanced. To be clear: I favor team based PvP and our FFA rules as they serve the basic design concept for each class. Furthermore I accept all responsibility for allowing a flawed 1:1 system to exist in AL that invites imbalanced fights between classes that have entirely different characteristics.

    TLDR - Mages should duel other Mages.


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    Also as long as you support PVP team please give a tought about make class restriction in every pvp map for example 1 war 2 rogues 1 mage and when slots re filled match starts (or just open map but system who does not make any class join the map where it reached the class limits). Something like this would make, at least in team form, balanced matches.

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  12.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodinger's cat View Post
    What happened to my post? I had a very valid point about the imbalance between mage and rogue and explained very clrealy that if a mage and rogue both charged and activated their skills simultaneously a mages shield doesnt activate before the rogue strikes him. I also pointed out that even without a speed set a rogue can catch someone who has a speed set.

    @ Cinco...i got the point u basically stated: pvp is imbalanced. I got that and now that uve stated it we can put the debate to rest.. we have the proof. Ty.
    Not quite. I’m saying: Play FFA for balance or Duel with same class and same gear for balance.

    I’ll enforce this with class restrictions if that’s somehow become necessary but the point of dueling was just for “fun,” and not as some elaborate rock-paper-scissors system that you’d find in a strictly PvP game.

    Best wishes to you all :-)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not quite. I’m saying: Play FFA for balance or Duel with same class and same gear for balance.

    I’ll enforce this with class restrictions if that’s somehow become necessary but the point of dueling was just for “fun,” and not as some elaborate rock-paper-scissors system that you’d find in a strictly PvP game.

    Best wishes to you all :-)


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    100s of millions in gear and countless hours farming for it...was it all worth it? *Smh*

  15.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #32
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodinger's cat View Post
    100s of millions in gear and countless hours farming for it...was it all worth it? *Smh*
    Yes. It most certainly is.

    Smh.


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    Senior Member arcanefid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shocan View Post
    It's not sneak peak time, were it we would know perhaps. It is however not, and had they wanted to disclose said information they would've on first mention of it ^^
    I'm not asking devs to show us the new expansion or whatever, the issue of class balance is something we have been dealing with for years. If you look around forums you can see that many of us are coming up with ideas and suggestions and everything else we can do to help the devs with class balance, and I don't think we have to wait for the expansion sneak peaks to see what they're doing about it. What if it doesn't work? Do we have to wait another expansion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not quite. I’m saying: Play FFA for balance or Duel with same class and same gear for balance.

    I’ll enforce this with class restrictions if that’s somehow become necessary but the point of dueling was just for “fun,” and not as some elaborate rock-paper-scissors system that you’d find in a strictly PvP game.

    Best wishes to you all :-)


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    Personally I'm not the PvP guy, and I agree that duels are not supposed to be balanced if different classes fight each other. But the class imbalance is a very big issue in PvE too, because Rogues are quite simply the best class without any doubt. Rogues can be good in every single map even if they use a legendary weapon, while Mages and Tanks have to wait until you guys make a weapon that has a strange proc and hope it's somehow useful enough to be worth replacing an average Rogue in the party.

    You mentioned one class having weaknesses and the other class filling that gap, but Rogues don't really have a weakness. And Mages and Tanks don't have any strength.

    If I'm wrong, then I'd love to know what the Warrior's strength is, it would be pretty useful to know.
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    Senior Member Spheresome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcanefid View Post
    I'm not asking devs to show us the new expansion or whatever, the issue of class balance is something we have been dealing with for years. If you look around forums you can see that many of us are coming up with ideas and suggestions and everything else we can do to help the devs with class balance, and I don't think we have to wait for the expansion sneak peaks to see what they're doing about it. What if it doesn't work? Do we have to wait another expansion?




    Personally I'm not the PvP guy, and I agree that duels are not supposed to be balanced if different classes fight each other. But the class imbalance is a very big issue in PvE too, because Rogues are quite simply the best class without any doubt. Rogues can be good in every single map even if they use a legendary weapon, while Mages and Tanks have to wait until you guys make a weapon that has a strange proc and hope it's somehow useful enough to be worth replacing an average Rogue in the party.

    You mentioned one class having weaknesses and the other class filling that gap, but Rogues don't really have a weakness. And Mages and Tanks don't have any strength.

    If I'm wrong, then I'd love to know what the Warrior's strength is, it would be pretty useful to know.
    Get mage while you are at it @Cinco. Random Proccing does not count as an answer ;-;

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    All that time and gold and plats and farming...smh... smh. Seriously.

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    Senior Member Shocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodinger's cat View Post
    @shocan.. doubt what? u have no idea who i am and ur trash talking me here because ur weak.
    Woah man, slow your role, I'm not trash talking you, and any insult was lost in translation, I promise, i merely doubt it was you as ik there are tons of mages and I've only pvped with a few and I don't actively do it, just upon pm to main, and rarely is it now with mages, perhaps I do know you, but I don't know, and I don't doubt your abilities in PvP. I'm not talking trash

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    Senior Member Shocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcanefid View Post
    I'm not asking devs to show us the new expansion or whatever, the issue of class balance is something we have been dealing with for years. If you look around forums you can see that many of us are coming up with ideas and suggestions and everything else we can do to help the devs with class balance, and I don't think we have to wait for the expansion sneak peaks to see what they're doing about it. What if it doesn't work? Do we have to wait another expansion?
    If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. This is an mmo however, there should be many fps games to suit your needs. If you want balance then do ffa/duel same class as cinco said, PvP however is for fun. It's all in good fun. If it doesn't work however we can't do anything. We can offer our advice, yes, but we can't actually do anything. I PvP all the time with friends, and I'm not any good at some levels with some classes, but we get good laughs and we enjoy the game the way it is. Maybe something new will come to tip the scales more towards the mages, or the tanks at lower levels, but not even that will make it fun, only you can do that for yourself.

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    @Cinco - Thanks for being so straightforward, but i got a newb question.

    Have you ever tested increasing the mages *Crit Hit Damage*? Specifically i mean the upgrade tick for the Lightning skill(cant remember the name off hand, sorry.). It increases Crit Damage by 66%, but to give mages more killing ability, couldn't increasing this ease the pain?

    Thanks.

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    Senior Member arcanefid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shocan View Post
    If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. This is an mmo however, there should be many fps games to suit your needs. If you want balance then do ffa/duel same class as cinco said, PvP however is for fun. It's all in good fun. If it doesn't work however we can't do anything. We can offer our advice, yes, but we can't actually do anything. I PvP all the time with friends, and I'm not any good at some levels with some classes, but we get good laughs and we enjoy the game the way it is. Maybe something new will come to tip the scales more towards the mages, or the tanks at lower levels, but not even that will make it fun, only you can do that for yourself.
    I wasn’t talking about PvP balance, but whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shocan View Post
    Woah man, slow your role, I'm not trash talking you, and any insult was lost in translation, I promise, i merely doubt it was you as ik there are tons of mages and I've only pvped with a few and I don't actively do it, just upon pm to main, and rarely is it now with mages, perhaps I do know you, but I don't know, and I don't doubt your abilities in PvP. I'm not talking trash
    U've got more cheesy one-liners than a bad movie.

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