Leaderboards - Soliciting Community Thoughts

[Reddwing]

I totally miss kill farming! It gets boring just grinding xp. Bringing it back will draw people back to the game. +1000

[MightyMicah]

Sam, thank you. I was literally about to go start my thread "MightyMicah signing off." One thing I was going to mention in that thread was that the only thing that can bring me back is xp lock kills. If you do this, I will be very gratefull.

[saool]

I like the idea!

[CrimsonTider]

IMO, the old way wasn't broken. It lasted for over a year before the changes were made. Bring bqck the old system instead of implementing all these new categories and useless elixirs.

[MightyMicah]

+1 ^

[Moogerfooger]

Just to play devil's advocate, what is the point of having a board glorifying people stomping through underpowered mobs just to rack up cheap kills, as some of you are suggesting? Don't give me that 'but...but...I spent a lot of time doing it!" line, not buying It's like having a board for pro UFC fighters going to a kindergarten and keeping track of how many three-yr old kiddies they destroy. They can claim the most kills eventually, but what's the point if they're beating up defenseless kiddies?

Just another perspective. XP lock kills makes sense though, as they are level-appropriate mobs.

[wvhills]

Just to play devil's advocate, what is the point of having a board glorifying people stomping through underpowered mobs just to rack up cheap kills, as some of you are suggesting? Don't give me that 'but...but...I spent a lot of time doing it!" line, not buying It's like having a board for pro UFC fighters going to a kindergarten and keeping track of how many three-yr old kiddies they destroy. They can claim the most kills eventually, but what's the point if they're beating up defenseless kiddies?

Just another perspective. XP lock kills makes sense though, as they are level-appropriate mobs.

I agree with you if you're talking about kills counting when you're on the xp anywhere elixir. However, I think they should count if you're in a level appropriate dungeon and xp gain off. A level 35 toon, with xp off should still be able to gain kills in swamps with xp gain off (IMO). That's just an example. I'd like to see it go back to the way it was before.

Edit: Just saw your last sentence moog. Haha. We agree completely. If I hadn't used up all my thanks I would thank you so just imagine this post as a thank.

[FluffNStuff]

@drew
In theory an awesome idea, especially because a dev once mentioned the leader boards are pushing a lot of data to the game. Problem I could see with that idea is the web and game servers are separate, so a tunnel could be dangerous since the game is naturally more secure then the site. If the game server could somehow push the necessary information though, I wonder if it would be possible. Kinda thinking while I type, so i will think some more, but LOVE the idea drew, and as for the original question, I am for anything that benefits pve twinking.

[goddessofpower]

This is off topic but I have a problem. When I tried to log on today it said my pass was incorrect even though I had remember password on:O. Then I made a new account then the same thing happened, please help me.

[MightyMicah]

@mooger's opinion; I said it before and I'll say it again. EVERYTHING, every single aspect of the game, takes nothing but time. Idc if you think having to press thorn root, shatt scream, blast shot, takes skill. You are pressing buttons in a certain order. There's nothing skillfull about it. I have characters at all levels. Yes I know how hard fang and nuris is. Yes I realize it would be impossible to xp lock kills while soloing. Why? Because the threat of death. The threat that doesn't exist in forest haven.

Either way, it's much harder than getting an anywhere xp elixar and ringing up kills as a lvl 66 in balefort castle hidden passage. May I point out that that doesn't take much time at all...

P.s. Notice I adressed "mooger's opinion" not Mooger himself. As such this post is not directed only at mooger's opinion but at anyone who shares that mindset.

[drewcapu]

@drew
Problem I could see with that idea is the web and game servers are separate, so a tunnel could be dangerous since the game is naturally more secure then the site. If the game server could somehow push the necessary information though, I wonder if it would be possible.

Not sure how the stats and stuff are stored. But if it's anything sql, I'm sure anything just relying on Select statements on it would be perfectly secure. I think the main question will be whether they want to work with live data or data that is mirrored from live data at particular intervals (every hour?).

[FluffNStuff]

Not sure how the stats and stuff are stored. But if it's anything sql, I'm sure anything just relying on Select statements on it would be perfectly secure. I think the main question will be whether they want to work with live data or data that is mirrored from live data at particular intervals (every hour?).

I think I see what you are saying, if the server was set up to respond to certain queries, it would not be giving the website actual access.

[kallima]

SAM, I know you said that these may not be implemented but honestly, if nothing is implemented to counter the new xp lixirs, I am forced to no other logical conclusion that the Devs no longer care about maintaining the integrity of the leaderboards. There was nothing wrong with the old system, if I have xp locked so I can farm wlydewood on my level 15 twink, why shouldn't my kills count? I am in a level appropriate dungeon.

All the "enable xp (and thus kills) lixirs" did was divide the community more. I haven't seen this much diviseness since the founders helm was announced. **and please let's not beat that dead horse again, folks**

I feel like STS is reacting on how to solve a problem that was never anticipated in a much more complicated manner than is necessary. Can we not simply disable kills on that elixir? Yes, two leaderboards would be one solution but still a flawed one. Unless you can review every player history and retroactively calculate how many kills were done legitimately and ones done with the aid of an elixir. Additionally, will any lixir (free, gold, and plat) usage be grouped under the separate leaderboard or just the thrasher?

Edit: please forgive typos, my dogs have once again chewed through the power cord to my laptop.

[AbsolutePally]

The only lesderboard we have been asking for for months is a ctf one. Please ctf lb before this random one.

[mackjack]

"No elixirs" = no elixirs of any kind, or no plat-bought combo and xp-anywhere elixirs (i.e. 1.5x gold bought elixirs would be OK)?

For someone like Decur who achieved his kills without plat-bought combo elixirs, I think it's terrible to start the kill count from 0 and deprive him a place on the elixir-free LB. Doesn't STS keep players' purchase history so it'd be easy to tell which players never bought combo elixirs? For someone that never bought thrasher elixirs, their kill count should not be reset. Granted, there might be a total of 2 such players, but still...

[Moogerfooger]

@mooger's opinion; I said it before and I'll say it again. EVERYTHING, every single aspect of the game, takes nothing but time. Idc if you think having to press thorn root, shatt scream, blast shot, takes skill. You are pressing buttons in a certain order. There's nothing skillfull about it. I have characters at all levels. Yes I know how hard fang and nuris is. Yes I realize it would be impossible to xp lock kills while soloing. Why? Because the threat of death. The threat that doesn't exist in forest haven.

Either way, it's much harder than getting an anywhere xp elixar and ringing up kills as a lvl 66 in balefort castle hidden passage. May I point out that that doesn't take much time at all...

P.s. Notice I adressed "mooger's opinion" not Mooger himself. As such this post is not directed only at mooger's opinion but at anyone who shares that mindset.

Dear MightyMicah's Opinion

Err, not sure what you are getting at....I was merely stating that a leaderboard glorifying people who rack up kills in non-level appropriate levels like a 66 going to Hidden Passage and killing a bunch of defenseless mobs like one could do for a bit with those new "anywhere" elixirs if I recall, is in my opinion a waste/shows nothing/not a leaderboard showing any achievement/skill/talent/anything to be noted. And that I thought XP-locked characters SHOULD get credit, if they are running level-appropriate levels.

Then again, I do not really care either way, because I personally think the leaderboards are a joke for the most part with the exception of people like Decur who have racked up their kills all on level-appropriate levels, as the boards used to be able to be manipulated/tainted by kill-boosting. I have gone months without even looking at them or even remembering they are there, hence me occasionally posting "We have leaderboards?" Even though I don't really care, I still cringed a bit when I saw people magically appear on the boards recently due to the "anywhere" elixir exploit (not illegal, but to me an exploit) and bump people off who I know have been around forever grinding out "real" kills.

Again, just my devil's advocate point of view/opinion.

[vulgarstrike]

I'm thinking that the scoreboards have gotten pretty much useless in determining any "true skill" or even practice for that matter.

I propose that a new section of scores is set, where the only kills that count would be "situational" kills.
By that, I mean, kills you gain only through running through a dungeon of equal or higher level that you qualify to level up in, with party members in the same situation, gain XP for the kill, do not use any elixers, but only the items on your hands and back.

In this manner, the people on this section of the scoreboard will have demonstrated, for the most part, that their kills were gained fairly through strategical play and whatnot.

[Decur]

First, I just want to say, I'm flattered that some of you remember me. Thank you!

Secondly, I think idea is not a bad solution to the xp anywhere elixirs. I'd still like to see kills disabled when players are on that elixir, but if that's not going to happen, then this is a fair alternative.

[FluffNStuff]

I would like to take a moment here to mention PVE Twinking, and why I feel it is the best thing to happen to the game:
1) Courteous PVE Twinkers are the real ambassadors of the game. These are veteran players mixed in among the 'newbs', and are able to answer questions that come up, give skill / stat / weapon advice, and can help guide players in the maps they are in.
2) PVE Twinkers are 'undercover'. A lot of the scamming in the game is targeted at new players, and Twinks are able to spot that. They also can see when high level players are being 'rude' to low level players, especially when the high level players are 'guests' in the lower maps.
3) PVE Twinkers are low level players involved in the forums, and can relay issues with maps or skills or stats to the Dev's. Most people do not join the forums until they are in the higher levels, and this means the issues of lower levels might not be heard.

As to the original question, I am not a fan of the leader boards, as they emphasize the individual aspect of the game and not the team, but I do appreciate that there are those that do. I also understand why XP lock is an issue to them, because it dominates the 'ratio'. The way health and damage scale in the game, it is MUCH easier to stay alive at lower levels.

I like the new suggestions, but I am curious about how they would work, as it is an issue I ran into when thinking of solutions. What happens when someone turns XP back on? Which leader-board will those new kills count towards? If someone only uses elixirs once in a while, will they say, have 500 elixir kills and 10K regular kills?

[Samhayne]

Take leaderboards out of the game and just put it on the website
In game just have a link. This gets people to the website who might ordinarily never use it. There's a lot more flexibility and possibilities that you can do via the website that would just be cramped and cluttered in game. Also, it's a good thing for people to be familiar with the website and the forums, right?

Divide the LB between "All-Time" and "Snapshots"
This is presuming there is no global reset of LB stats. I've always been interested in LB stats that take a snapshot of various stats, whether it is by current/previous day, week, month. But my favorite snapshot is the two-week period, a-la pay periods which are fixed instead of rolling. Such snapshots can be archived / searchable.

Added Stats
Kills are nice. But wouldn't you be curious to see who has killed Vlod the most? Who has killed Emma the most? Who has killed Meathead the most? LBs on boss kills would separate the farmers from the grinders.

Dungeons completed and Campaigns completed can be interesting stats. Sure someone can farm FH1 completions. But how many people can claim to have 500 Mount Fang FL3 Completions? 10 Shadow Caves Campaign Completions (beginning to end, first kill to last kill)?

With the idea of snapshots and the usage of elixirs, why not have a LB for experience earned and levels gained? Let's see who can power-level the best! Can anyone gain 59 Levels in a two-week snapshot?

Timed Stats (All-Time only)

With power leveling comes speed. And when you play with speed, you'll want to know who is the fastest! Whether it's map completions or campaign completions, it would be nice to have runs timed starting from the first hit (mob or player) to the last kill. And, when it comes to timed stats, the Level of all the players involved at the time of completion should be indicated so that we can see just how impressive it was. Timed stats would be interesting to see if they were subdivided by max half-decade level. After all, completing Victory Lap in record time with L65s just isn't as impressive as finishing it in record time with L50s (or 45s?)!

Guild Runs, Solo Runs
An interesting thing about Map/Campaign Completions and Boss Kills is, what if the system detected when such feats were completed by a guild (everyone in the run, beginning to end, was from the same Guild) or (gasp!) solo!?

Nice summary of ideas, thanks for posting them!