Do you want Guild LB to continue?

[BaronB]

i just wondering (not really) is it truth that some weird things still affecting guild's ranking like:
- average account age
- founding date
- 1-30d active
if yes - that LB is just bs lol

Yes to the average account and 1-30d active and no to the founding date..


Average account age is there so you don’t have JUST new accounts in a guild where no one would be able to guide them (the blind leading the blind)

And 1-30d active is a good tracker of how frequently people are online.. even during down times in games if you have a guild that’s socially active with players and their enjoying themselves with others than this will always be a decent rank.. good indicator of your becoming a little stagnant...


If these two particular factors is what contributes to “lb is just bs”.. I would love to hear as to why you came to that conclusion



1 <3


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[Willl]

I would start saying that guild lb can stay or not and in both cases will be fine to me,


Remember guys people keep leaving game as long as a kind of leaderboard has been deleted by OUR complain..yes none cares about lb guilds..but year after year all leaderbords are disappearing and less and less players keep playing, why? Cause there will be always someone disappointed enough to quit.
Lb is a competition, and I assure you any kind of competition is the motivation why some players are still playing.

I saw many comments about how lb guilds brings toxicity, or how in some cases upper the spot it is and higher is the toxicity or how lb doesnt allow the entrance of new players in those old guilds, well let me say my opinion about those points,

- Yes leaderbord brings toxicity, but not always and not for everyone, it depends how it is managed and who are the people caring for it, in this game there are kids that makes drama even for a joke..drama people will always find a reason to make drama on everything, or to show off, or to trashtalk..for everything (so what, next will be let's mute showoff kids? lets delete chat in towns?)
- Yes in some cases the toxicity goes higher as higher is the spot..but this depends always on the nature of how the guild is managed and how seriously GM's takes this game or this "competition"
- about the guild requirements that does not allow the entrance of new players I definitely can't agree: supposing there will not be anymore leaderbord guilds (so I could delete the billions of requirements needed to join my guild), to be sure to preserve the high quality of players I would put again like back in 46 cap the testing players with gears, builds, playstyle runs to be sure no newbies could enter and ruin guild parties with their unexperience. (I actually think this is even better than stick to actual guild requirements).

I didn't want to bump this thread..but who is asking to delete should think that this way everyone will ask to delete a leaderbord cause all lb brings drama.

Good luck!

[Dalmony]

IMHO removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (CTF/TDM Flag/Kill farming, PVE Kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

Mine and others arguments are still relevant to the discussion because of the above, which is what you've cited as your reason for removing guild lb - that removing it will change the perspectives of players.

I guess my point of view is that the "perspective of players" you describe is totally unrelated to lb, more to do with each player (and therefore guild) having their own individual goals that don't involve slowing ones progress to continuously help & teach others. (Personally I'm okay with doing it but I get that for most its not their cup of tea).

This is entertainment and not everyone's definition of that is teaching other new players; that should be incorporated by the game designers... to teach, entice and lead new players towards sticking with and mastering the game through adequacy, reward, progression, and provision of just enough resources to lead a new player up to end game.

Guild leaderboard isn't causing that harm you've described. There is a problem with player segregation yes..... But I don't think it's related to guild lb at all.

All nostalgia & optimism aside... efforts by devs into improving how new players are taught and how they progress is the more useful thing route to go here.

Removing guild lb, in my opinion, would probs just go unnoticed by the majority of players and would be missing the mark.



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[Stephencobear]

Trying to be short-
@ 1st I said “ most of us think lb are a joke”, & may have agreed to op right off, but for me it’s not just the guild lb that is the problem, it’s aps in general lately.

1: pvp is inactive (I resist the phrase dead)
2: class imbalance. Recently Cinco said if a smurf wants a fair fight it should only fight smurfs >.<
Both of those present a hurdle to new players wanting to join a good guild and compete if they have to sweat aps.
3: there is the situation that some ppl who have certain aps have either botted them, or dummy farmed said aps, and got away with not being banned for several reasons.
4: some acc have been black market bought & have those apps, or sold the gear to get say a timed position.
5: some aps can be gained with plat

That said I do appreciate that some make the point that competitiveness drives many & shouldn’t be eliminated, I think aps might currently exclude or hinder the new players I wish would be joining.
Also I agree a guild should have any restrictions they want, but that there is the “prize” of a lb, I don’t think is a good representation of what good players are together rn.

TLDR: simply only removing guild lb isn’t solving much given the system isn’t representing real hard working skilled players.

[BaronB]

Trying to be short-
@ 1st I said “ most of us think lb are a joke”, & may have agreed to op right off, but for me it’s not just the guild lb that is the problem, it’s aps in general lately.

1: pvp is inactive (I resist the phrase dead)
2: class imbalance. Recently Cinco said if a smurf wants a fair fight it should only fight smurfs >.<
Both of those present a hurdle to new players wanting to join a good guild and compete if they have to sweat aps.
3: there is the situation that some ppl who have certain aps have either botted them, or dummy farmed said aps, and got away with not being banned for several reasons.
4: some acc have been black market bought & have those apps, or sold the gear to get say a timed position.
5: some aps can be gained with plat

That said I do appreciate that some make the point that competitiveness drives many & shouldn’t be eliminated, I think aps might currently exclude or hinder the new players I wish would be joining.
Also I agree a guild should have any restrictions they want, but that there is the “prize” of a lb, I don’t think is a good representation of what good players are together rn.

TLDR: simply only removing guild lb isn’t solving much given the system isn’t representing real hard working skilled players.

Just to keep this short and sweet,

If the concept of gaining achievement points didn’t work, it wouldn’t be implemented as broadly across games as it currently is.. think about those Xbox achievements or PS trophies..

1<3


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[Soyeonara]

Guys, is it necessary to discuss this matter? I think there r more important things to improve something else in AL, you guys should put your idea on that.

[Genius]

Guys, is it necessary to discuss this matter?

Yes, people who commented on this thread and I did find it necessary, or why would we spend our time on a rational discussion?

I think there r more important things to improve something else in AL, you guys should put your idea on that.

I am sure there will always be more important things to discuss, but your statement is vague, kindly be explicit what topic that is important and is currently not under discussion on this forum?

[Soyeonara]

Surely you should put idea on improving the expansion. Leave the Guild LB as it, and this matter was bringing up from previous thread (major factor for this question rise in this thread) which also from my perspective is it unnecessary.

I would want also to see the improvement and idea for another thing like gears for example. That would be great and Im sure I will try to suggest some option to upgrade that.

Moreover, it is nice to argument this matter, but for me this is not right time to discuss this.

[Genius]

Surely you should put idea on improving the expansion.

I would, as soon I get some confidence on the devs that they are implementing those ideas, I am yet to see the improvements that Cinco promised will come in the interest of Level 76 expansion months back.

I think its too soon to judge him and call him a liar, so I will wait few weeks before delivering my complete point of view on the current affairs.

[Genius]

So, the general vibe I am getting from this thread is that Guild LB should stay for the sake of competition, but at the same time people feel that the system needs to change in order for the change in perspective of the players. This means parameters on the Guild LB needs to be changed, things that will still keep the guild LB competitive without putting a restriction of "numbers" for recruitment?

My 2 cents will be to remove PVE K/D from the Guild LB. This will atleast reduce the pressure from the players for meeting a specified number of kills to join their "favorite" guild. I am sure no player enjoys spending time in hauntlet just to join a guild (now that its not even a part of player LB).

What other parameters can be changed to make things better? - open forum (but I am looking at the senior members).

[Willl]

So, the general vibe I am getting from this thread is that Guild LB should stay for the sake of competition, but at the same time people feel that the system needs to change in order for the change in perspective of the players. This means parameters on the Guild LB needs to be changed, things that will still keep the guild LB competitive without putting a restriction of "numbers" for recruitment?

My 2 cents will be to remove PVE K/D from the Guild LB. This will atleast reduce the pressure from the players for meeting a specified number of kills to join their "favorite" guild. I am sure no player enjoys spending time in hauntlet just to join a guild (now that its not even a part of player LB).

What other parameters can be changed to make things better? - open forum (but I am looking at the senior members).

Nothing should be changed you know why? Cause every reply players will give..it will be to benefit their own situation.
So I say just stop assume what should be changed cause it will end just deleting the entire lb as it happened with pve kills tiebreaker..pve kills..pvp kills..flags..and everything.
Lets continue this topic so they get tired and delete this too.

[Willl]

A part of the comminity use forums to delete/ruin eachother and not to improve game, and i think this is an useless topic to take care of. We have an expansion 20 people are running and here we discuss how to ruin another leaderbord.
Idk..you have so much free time I guess.

[BaronB]

Nothing should be changed you know why? Cause every reply players will give..it will be to benefit their own situation.
So I say just stop assume what should be changed cause it will end just deleting the entire lb as it happened with pve kills tiebreaker..pve kills..pvp kills..flags..and everything.
Lets continue this topic so they get tired and delete this too.

Pretty spot on,


The system itself isn’t broken or needs changing.. if you want guilds to be fairer like mentioned above then it’s the people who need to change not the system


1<3

[Overgrown]

So, the general vibe I am getting from this thread is that Guild LB should stay for the sake of competition, but at the same time people feel that the system needs to change in order for the change in perspective of the players. This means parameters on the Guild LB needs to be changed, things that will still keep the guild LB competitive without putting a restriction of "numbers" for recruitment?

My 2 cents will be to remove PVE K/D from the Guild LB. This will atleast reduce the pressure from the players for meeting a specified number of kills to join their "favorite" guild. I am sure no player enjoys spending time in hauntlet just to join a guild (now that its not even a part of player LB).

What other parameters can be changed to make things better? - open forum (but I am looking at the senior members).

These "favorite" guilds worked hard to be a "favorite". Why change the system, the system flows seamlessly (guild LB)

I guess its time for you to change yourself first on how to look at things better, and stop using the masses for your own interests. If you want to cater the nabbies, create a guild of your own that will be a nabbies "favorite" and babysit them all. Thanks, close this thread.

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[Allset]

It’s one of the first things the game wants us to see is the lb. Guilds is the first category you see when you look at the lb. So trust me when I tell you we all see it at some time or another...

I have played other games that didn’t have a lb system & it created way more drama because of it. Now that I think about it this game keeps excellent records compared to others games I’ve played. And that’s what I like about it. So when I see the lb I know who is who & what is what. No explanation needed. You can talk all you want. But once you’re on the lb that is AL history. XD


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[Fiasaria]

the guild lb keep people playing, make them willing to do those boring elite kills aps. obviously those just happen during dead weeks

[Genius]

Nothing should be changed you know why? Cause every reply players will give..it will be to benefit their own situation.
So I say just stop assume what should be changed cause it will end just deleting the entire lb as it happened with pve kills tiebreaker..pve kills..pvp kills..flags..and everything.

No one is assuming here. Its a fact that majority of the players wont like to farm PVE kills if it isn't for guilds recruitment requirement. Similarly someone stated founding date should not be there as a parameter. Sure people will have different opinion, whats wrong in that?
+ I am happy with the changes of Player LB, the tie still happens but at the last spot. Remember Its a change, not delete or ruin. More good happened because of it than bad.

Lets continue this topic so they get tired and delete this too.

I don't think that's how things work here.

A part of the comminity use forums to delete/ruin each other and not to improve game, and i think this is an useless topic to take care of. We have an expansion 20 people are running and here we discuss how to ruin another leaderbord.

That is your personal perception, If you are pointing this thread to be a de-constructive agenda then you are wrong, perhaps you are only limited to think as a GM, but my perception involves the overall mood of the common.
Also, there is already a expansion discussion going on the forum, If you like to discuss it then you should be commenting on that thread. Commenting about other topics here will serve no good.

[Genius]

These "favorite" guilds worked hard to be a "favorite". Why change the system, the system flows seamlessly (guild LB)
I guess its time for you to change yourself first on how to look at things better, and stop using the masses for your own interests. If you want to cater the nabbies, create a guild of your own that will be a nabbies "favorite" and babysit them all. Thanks, close this thread.

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This post is a fallacy. You need take a break, perhaps have some tea, learn about things that goes around you and get a better perspective on life. May be then we can have a rational conversation (may be). I will ignore the future comments from you if they are going to be drafted the same way.

[Genius]

It’s one of the first things the game wants us to see is the lb. Guilds is the first category you see when you look at the lb. So trust me when I tell you we all see it at some time or another...

I have played other games that didn’t have a lb system & it created way more drama because of it. Now that I think about it this game keeps excellent records compared to others games I’ve played. And that’s what I like about it. So when I see the lb I know who is who & what is what. No explanation needed. You can talk all you want. But once you’re on the lb that is AL history. XD


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I honor your personal opinion, but I play MMOs created by some of the big studios and they dont have a LB system and things are just fine there. LB system has nothing to do with drama. Anyway, if you read my last followup post I recognized the point many mentions here that Guild LB is required for competition, but at the same time the posts on this thread suggest that to change the perception required the change in system because as pointed out by other the system created the perception.

So the question is what kind of parameter changes are required.

[Genius]

Pretty spot on,


The system itself isn’t broken or needs changing.. if you want guilds to be fairer like mentioned above then it’s the people who need to change not the system


1<3

I think its been mentioned by many that its the parameters of the Guild LB that drives the Guilds to have a "number" requirement. Which is why the blame is on system. If you think the system does not require a change then what do you suggest?
My question to you is: How would you make people change their perception given the current scenario?