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Thread: Do you want Guild LB to continue?

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    Default Do you want Guild LB to continue?

    I understand that guilds are suppose to be a place for people to hangout, make friends and be part of a family that do things together; a place where people help each other to accomplish their goals. So what is the point of a LB?

    IMHO removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (CTF/TDM Flag/Kill farming, PVE Kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

    What do you think? Do we need Guild LB? If yes, why? If no, why not? Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.

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    I agree in part - it doesn't encourage a healthy acceptance of new players because of restricted entry. It also creates in guild tension and pressure to make certain rules. Removing the guild lb would be fine by me - it doesn't mean a lot these days anyway!

    Just a side note though - a lot of guilds restrict entry by PVE kills also because they are trying to remain exclusive to dedicated players with a certain amount of game experience and know how. This is to ensure that guild runs are quality for the members, rather than carrying weaker players who plat boosted a week ago and have no idea how the game works.

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    Yes. Q

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    Quote Originally Posted by genius View Post
    i understand that guilds are suppose to be a place for people to hangout, make friends and be part of a family that do things together; a place where people help each other to accomplish their goals. So what is the point of a lb?

    Imho removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (ctf/tdm flag/kill farming, pve kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. Etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

    What do you think? Do we need guild lb? If yes, why? If no, why not? please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.
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    I'm a guild master myself , as stated above the restrictions are part of what makes guilds great , otherwise it will be full of new accounts, if your account is not up to par you shouldn't be applying for a leaderboard guild , my input

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentkill View Post
    Yes. Q
    Ok, why? (I dint understand what Q means sorry)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmony View Post
    Just a side note though - a lot of guilds restrict entry by PVE kills also because they are trying to remain exclusive to dedicated players with a certain amount of game experience and know how. This is to ensure that guild runs are quality for the members, rather than carrying weaker players who plat boosted a week ago and have no idea how the game works.

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    This is true, but let me add to this that every player in every mmo is once new and get carried by his fellows, a guild is a concept derived from and for that, denying to acknowledge it is a failiure of a GM and a guild. Filling the guilds with the accomplished players only makes it inactive and boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsanitrisesAL View Post
    I'm a guild master myself , as stated above the restrictions are part of what makes guilds great , otherwise it will be full of new accounts, if your account is not up to par you shouldn't be applying for a leaderboard guild , my input
    Let me tell you the restrictions you are talking about are pure numbers and not skills. These restrictions are not self decided but followed because GMs want their guilds on LB. I can show you players who are old, on LB, and still dont know how to play their class. (JS).

    The question of the thread isnt what accounts should be applying, the questions is why you need Guild LB?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genius View Post
    I understand that guilds are suppose to be a place for people to hangout, make friends and be part of a family that do things together; a place where people help each other to accomplish their goals. So what is the point of a LB?

    IMHO removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (CTF/TDM Flag/Kill farming, PVE Kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

    What do you think? Do we need Guild LB? If yes, why? If no, why not? Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.
    How about just leave it how it is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axel_crx View Post
    How about just leave it how it is

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    Why? Please support your answer with an argument.

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    Restrictions filters the disciplined and pro to the newbies, imagine what a stress of always being begged for gold and help, just leave alone the LB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genius View Post
    This is true, but let me add to this that every player in every mmo is once new and get carried by his fellows, a guild is a concept derived from and for that, denying to acknowledge it is a failiure of a GM and a guild. Filling the guilds with the accomplished players only makes it inactive and boring.
    I get what you're saying believe me but I wouldn't say it's a failing of the GM at all - more a failing of the game population as a whole - or the Devs who haven't made a clear path for new players to get them up to speed to end game.

    "Pro" players in guilds tend to be quieter (because focused on runs/party) and they will also leave or stay in a guild based on the quality of parties and advice they can get there. Farmers want the confidence to be able to say "2s Maus 6" and know two things:

    1. People will reply

    2. They won't get someone joining the party who us using deary, no ankh, is not appropriately geared, or and has no idea how the map works.

    If you want to have a serious pve farming guild then the above two points needs to hold or people won't stay and then you don't have a farming guild you have a social guild (which is fine but not every has to want this).

    The minority who don't mind slower runs and are pretty chill about constantly teaching people won't look for a guild with no requirements and will end up in a more social guild. But they'll be the only pro there and will have sacrifices the ability to put together a quality guild farming party with any regularity.

    My point is really that it's not a failing if a GM want a to make a certain type of guild and entry is restricted to ensure that. Would you join a PVP guild where when you said J, nobody ever came? Or where the people join but are consistently bad PVPers?

    To your point about everyone having been new once - there are a lot of veteran players like myself who haven't been new or carried they started in either arcanum, Kraken, or Nordr era. If you started then you were never really "carried" or "struggled" because the entire population was new and everyone was figuring it out together.

    There is a general tolerance for new and inexperienced players because they hinder runs and slow efficiency (including the time taken to explain simple things repeatedly in gc). It's not "right" but it's the facts and tbh you have more chance of changing the majority populations viewpoint on new players than you do of getting a thought provoking discussion on these forums instead of people just posting memes

    TLR
    GMs do what they can to keep their guildies happy and the guild functioning to it's purpose.
    That's nothing to do with a guild lb however - that serves no purposes but people's ego. It's just that removing it won't, imho, remove these barriers for new players.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmony View Post
    I get what you're saying believe me but I wouldn't say it's a failing of the GM at all - more a failing of the game population as a whole - or the Devs who haven't made a clear path for new players to get them up to speed to end game.

    "Pro" players in guilds tend to be quieter (because focused on runs/party) and they will also leave or stay in a guild based on the quality of parties and advice they can get there. Farmers want the confidence to be able to say "2s Maus 6" and know two things:

    1. People will reply

    2. They won't get someone joining the party who us using deary, no ankh, is not appropriately geared, or and has no idea how the map works.

    If you want to have a serious pve farming guild then the above two points needs to hold or people won't stay and then you don't have a farming guild you have a social guild (which is fine but not every has to want this).

    The minority who don't mind slower runs and are pretty chill about constantly teaching people won't look for a guild with no requirements and will end up in a more social guild. But they'll be the only pro there and will have sacrifices the ability to put together a quality guild farming party with any regularity.

    My point is really that it's not a failing if a GM want a to make a certain type of guild and entry is restricted to ensure that. Would you join a PVP guild where when you said J, nobody ever came? Or where the people join but are consistently bad PVPers?

    To your point about everyone having been new once - there are a lot of veteran players like myself who haven't been new or carried they started in either arcanum, Kraken, or Nordr era. If you started then you were never really "carried" or "struggled" because the entire population was new and everyone was figuring it out together.

    There is a general tolerance for new and inexperienced players because they hinder runs and slow efficiency (including the time taken to explain simple things repeatedly in gc). It's not "right" but it's the facts and tbh you have more chance of changing the majority populations viewpoint on new players than you do of getting a thought provoking discussion on these forums instead of people just posting memes

    TLR
    GMs do what they can to keep their guildies happy and the guild functioning to it's purpose.
    That's nothing to do with a guild lb however - that serves no purposes but people's ego. It's just that removing it won't, imho, remove these barriers for new players.


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    That’s close enough to being bang on


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    Quote Originally Posted by Overgrown View Post
    Restrictions filters the disciplined and pro to the newbies, imagine what a stress of always being begged for gold and help, just leave alone the LB
    Having restrictions or recruitment policies on what kind of players you like to recruit has nothing to do with Guild LB, it has to do with what kind of guild you like to make. Also you are implying that all newbies beg for gold, which is not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmony View Post
    I get what you're saying...
    "Pro"....
    ....But they'll be the only pro there and will have sacrifices the ability to put together a quality guild farming party with any regularity.

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    I know people being carried since the start of the game irrespective of which level cap and there are many threads on this forum to prove it. Understand carry doesn't only mean a old player helping a new player run a map, carry can be helping a non/under geared player to get the Timed run, helping a high latency player get arena LB or carrying a mages to Temple LB.

    Also, "Pro" in a game is defined by the knowledge and ability of a player to play their class, "numbers" can help but they arent benchmark. It only takes a week to get 20k APs and 100k kills, which are the kind of players top guilds recruit, would you call them Pro? Similarly I (and I am sure you as well) know many warriors who been playing for 6 years but still don't know what Taunt means and how aggro works, what should we call them? I chose to ignore most of this because AL is a casual game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmony View Post
    My point is really that it's not a failing if a GM want a to make a certain type of guild and entry is restricted to ensure that. Would you join a PVP guild where when you said J, nobody ever came? Or where the people join but are consistently bad PVPers?
    What you are saying happens in a guild where people are recruited based on numbers.

    On the other hand Purge (Guild) is a good example of what happens when a GM wants to make a PvP guild with restricted entry (without thinking of LB) where most who joins like to PvP do go to PvP when someone says J. So you see even in the current game there are exceptions, people who are making the right kind of guilds.

    Sure its a fail of a system but the above example means its a fail of a GM as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmony View Post
    GMs do what they can to keep their guildies happy and the guild functioning to it's purpose.
    That's nothing to do with a guild lb however - that serves no purposes but people's ego. It's just that removing it won't, imho, remove these barriers for new players.
    Well, we will only know if change is good or bad once we have it. I agree, remove it, let new players have a new and good start.

    (Wanted to +Rep for taking time to write such a long post but its saying I cant again. Ty.)
    Last edited by Genius; 09-27-2019 at 07:24 AM. Reason: ate few words xD I'm hungry

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    Guild LB's are absolutely good for AL, although most will say they are pretty useless to determine whos "the best guild"(i agree). Competition sparks passion, which will drive you to accomplish your goals. Having a common goal with a group of people, large or small, is the essence of mmorpgs and guilds :-).

    The LB isnt going anywhere.

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    Simply the reason for any leaderboards realistically is simply a form of “showing off”.

    Be it player ones or guild ones

    Guild leaderboards of course one of the easiest to achieve and for some people that will be there main achievement because they won’t be able to get onto any other leaderboards (heck even myself included as I sure as hell don’t have the patience or skill to be a lb runner)

    Now weighing out if it’s needed at all...

    For new starters I think they are great, end of the day if you and a couple friends decide to make s guild and even just want to appear in the top 50 your going to have to learn to get a little better.. won’t be as much as making it to player lbs however you and your friends will have to learn to improve and will have to learn to be more social with others as well.

    You take that away you won’t have much of a reason to really to push for improving maybe let alone making a guild, why? End of the day we all enjoy and like the bit of recognition and attention it can bring(not excluding the rare few who do like just grinding because they find it fun).


    I think the problems start to arise as you move up within the leaderboards and you start getting too greedy and egos get inflated too much. They start thinking they better than others, make more exclusions for people joining and only expect and want the “pro” player mentality because primary goal ends up being keep guild top leaderboard.

    Unfortunately people forget to stay humble and become elitist which then has too many egos clashing and why a lot of those kinds of guilds start breaking apart from within.


    It’s all a matter of balance if you want harmony. Nothing wrong with guild leaderboards and most of the toxicity and dramas you’ll usually find the higher up the ranks you go.. not the case every time as if some of those guilds didn’t find the right balance a lot of them would have been disbanded along time ago.

    Leaderboards arnt essential but great way to get a group of people to aim towards a collective goal to improve themselves. After that would fall down to core members of the guild which direction it takes, its healthy however as mentioned to bring in new people as stops not only being boring but it can help keep people humble and remind them of they’re own roots... but too many and not enough and you’ll feel like your carrying players and not actually growing yourself..


    For the sake of argument tho because of a bit of dramas created usually by the “top 10” listed guilds.. we are almost forgetting there is another 40 guilds that make up that entire leaderboard.


    Keep leaderboards and just learn to stay classy and humble



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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronB View Post
    Simply the reason for any leaderboards realistically is simply a form of “showing off”.

    Be it player ones or guild ones

    Guild leaderboards of course one of the easiest to achieve and for some people that will be there main achievement because they won’t be able to get onto any other leaderboards (heck even myself included as I sure as hell don’t have the patience or skill to be a lb runner)

    Now weighing out if it’s needed at all...

    For new starters I think they are great, end of the day if you and a couple friends decide to make s guild and even just want to appear in the top 50 your going to have to learn to get a little better.. won’t be as much as making it to player lbs however you and your friends will have to learn to improve and will have to learn to be more social with others as well.

    You take that away you won’t have much of a reason to really to push for improving maybe let alone making a guild, why? End of the day we all enjoy and like the bit of recognition and attention it can bring(not excluding the rare few who do like just grinding because they find it fun).


    I think the problems start to arise as you move up within the leaderboards and you start getting too greedy and egos get inflated too much. They start thinking they better than others, make more exclusions for people joining and only expect and want the “pro” player mentality because primary goal ends up being keep guild top leaderboard.

    Unfortunately people forget to stay humble and become elitist which then has too many egos clashing and why a lot of those kinds of guilds start breaking apart from within.


    It’s all a matter of balance if you want harmony. Nothing wrong with guild leaderboards and most of the toxicity and dramas you’ll usually find the higher up the ranks you go.. not the case every time as if some of those guilds didn’t find the right balance a lot of them would have been disbanded along time ago.

    Leaderboards arnt essential but great way to get a group of people to aim towards a collective goal to improve themselves. After that would fall down to core members of the guild which direction it takes, its healthy however as mentioned to bring in new people as stops not only being boring but it can help keep people humble and remind them of they’re own roots... but too many and not enough and you’ll feel like your carrying players and not actually growing yourself..


    For the sake of argument tho because of a bit of dramas created usually by the “top 10” listed guilds.. we are almost forgetting there is another 40 guilds that make up that entire leaderboard.


    Keep leaderboards and just learn to stay classy and humble



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    I did get fed up with all the drama of the guild leaderboards the other day and suggested they may be not necessary and abolish them.
    After reading your post it brought back memories of when I belonged to a special guild that was humble and classy. Although we didn't strive to be on the leaderboard, we did get there and when it was noticed and announced, the feeling of pride was great.
    We kept there, sometimes dropped down but there was no shame in that and we even forgot to check the lb most weeks.
    Yes..keep them, even if it's just for the memories of someone posting in guildchat, " Hey, check the lb, we went up 2 places, wow". All of us dashing to the lb..oh dear.. I made myself cry..I want our guild back so much 😢

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    My alt got kicked out of another guild because they started to chase numbers. Pillocks! Hope they never reach guild lb.

    DEVIANT MISFIT

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    What's a leaderboards guild? People still care about them? Oof

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    i just wondering (not really) is it truth that some weird things still affecting guild's ranking like:
    - average account age
    - founding date
    - 1-30d active
    if yes - that LB is just bs lol

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