What's your conclusion???

[Snakespeare]

My conclusion is that PvP is an add-on. It exists solely for FUN. Therefore, we shouldn't track kills and deaths.

PvP is also a drain on the game's resources. If there were no PvP, there would be more available memory so they wouldn't have to reuse map sections. We can't ride, swim, levitate, or fly, but we can PvP. I guess it's easier to code it that way. And what do we get for PvPing? Nothing. Just some numbers on your avatar page. Do PvPers spent much plat? Of course not. There's no reason. Elixirs don't work in PvP. They might buy one or two plat item if they are twinking, but not for end cap PvP, which is most players. So, it's really just a drain on resources, AND it doesn't earn the devs any money.

HOWEVER, a lot of people do it for FUN, and that keeps them hanging around while they wait for the next level cap. So, let's keep PvP, just get rid of the LB and turn off the kill and death tracking. That way it will be exclusively for FUN, which is as it should be.

[Swimmingstar]

Yeah! But some people who get a lot of kills could be mad.

[Gaunab]

My conclusion is that PvP is an add-on. It exists solely for FUN. Therefore, we shouldn't track kills and deaths.

PvP is also a drain on the game's resources. If there were no PvP, there would be more available memory so they wouldn't have to reuse map sections. We can't ride, swim, levitate, or fly, but we can PvP. I guess it's easier to code it that way. And what do we get for PvPing? Nothing. Just some numbers on your avatar page. Do PvPers spent much plat? Of course not. There's no reason. Elixirs don't work in PvP. They might buy one or two plat item if they are twinking, but not for end cap PvP, which is most players. So, it's really just a drain on resources, AND it doesn't earn the devs any money.

HOWEVER, a lot of people do it for FUN, and that keeps them hanging around while they wait for the next level cap. So, let's keep PvP, just get rid of the LB and turn off the kill and death tracking. That way it will be exclusively for FUN, which is as it should be.

Some very interesting thoughts, but I have to disagree with some parts...

- PvPers DO spend plat, and often alot.
Every hardcore PvPer wants to be at the cap as soon as possible when there's a new levelcap, esspecially now for the vanities. They all blow plat on those 4x combos, often for multilple chars so they can then forget about PvE and go back to the arena. Furthermore they spend money on various rings, faces, platpacks and respect in order to find the perfect build.
I don't have numbers but I'm sure that the PvP community produces quite some income for STS.

And if we didn't have PvP, for many players (included me) this game would be dead. Even if the PvE maps were more creative, PvP is for many people the only thing that keeps them playing, and therefor spending money ingame!

And believe me, PvP will always have a very competitive character, no matter if there are LBs or not. And I think it's good we have this spirit, eventhough some people take it far too seriously...

[Ixillicus]

My conclusion is that PvP is an add-on. It exists solely for FUN. Therefore, we shouldn't track kills and deaths.

PvP is also a drain on the game's resources. If there were no PvP, there would be more available memory so they wouldn't have to reuse map sections. We can't ride, swim, levitate, or fly, but we can PvP. I guess it's easier to code it that way. And what do we get for PvPing? Nothing. Just some numbers on your avatar page. Do PvPers spent much plat? Of course not. There's no reason. Elixirs don't work in PvP. They might buy one or two plat item if they are twinking, but not for end cap PvP, which is most players. So, it's really just a drain on resources, AND it doesn't earn the devs any money.

HOWEVER, a lot of people do it for FUN, and that keeps them hanging around while they wait for the next level cap. So, let's keep PvP, just get rid of the LB and turn off the kill and death tracking. That way it will be exclusively for FUN, which is as it should be.

I want to disagree with you here on a few points.

First of all, I doubt there is much extra memory being used, because all of the PVP maps are using the same aforementioned textures.

Second, we spend a lot of plat. I find PVE very boring and repetitive and want to spend as little time as possible playing it. So I spend all that plat levelling and farming, and then I spend more re-specing and messing around on my main or twinks.

It's competitive and fun, and since it's something for us non-pve fans to do until we blow a bunch more plat getting to the next cap. I would say it helps the devs make more money by entertaining me so I don't quit.

[Snakespeare]

Ah, good points. Hardcore PvPers are the ones who spend plat rushing to cap. That's right. Well... I'm not saying get rid of it. I was opposed to it when they added it, but my friends all like it, so I came to accept it. I'm talking outside of my experience, I know.

Still, would it really hurt to stop having a PvP leaderboard? I'm not sure it means anything.

[AbsolutePally]

I agree with this and don't agree with this. The easy solution would be to take away vanities from PvP or nerf them, but there would be some rage. I can kill these vanity set people easily. At least some of them. But the more expierienced people take getting used to to beat. That proves PvP is more about skill. But vanity does make a big difference sometimes. The expierienced with vanity people can be killed easily when they take off vanity, but when they get used to it, they are getting more expierienced without being overpowered. Ask Absolute/Always. He expierienced this yesterday. We did many matches. He won the majority or the vanity matches and I managed to tie and even win matches after he had only the 66 vanity armor on. I was level 65.5 no cap vanities at all. This is just from experience /experiment.

I think your liberal misuse of the word easily is misleading and exaggorated. I am pretty sure w vanity it would be 10/0 and wout it does take time to get used to. You won initially but after I adjusting I kept count of 9/1 me.

[AbsolutePally]

Ah, good points. Hardcore PvPers are the ones who spend plat rushing to cap. That's right. Well... I'm not saying get rid of it. I was opposed to it when they added it, but my friends all like it, so I came to accept it. I'm talking outside of my experience, I know.

Still, would it really hurt to stop having a PvP leaderboard? I'm not sure it means anything.

What really makes NO sense is a leaderboard for biggest guild. And not one for CTF.
PvE LB is silly too. Ok you smash buttons unskillfully at whatever range with double and triple elixers. Big whoop.

I agree with Drink above. Pve is boring and takes zero to minimal talent, it is repetitive and requires minimal effort.

[Whirlzap]

What really makes NO sense is a leaderboard for biggest guild. And not one for CTF.
PvE LB is silly too. Ok you smash buttons unskillfully at whatever range with double and triple elixers. Big whoop.

I agree with Drink above. Pve is boring and takes zero to minimal talent, it is repetitive and requires minimal effort.

Whoever stated that PvE is elixirs doesn't know enough about PvE.
If you're gonna go around using 4x Combo, OF COURSE PvE is easy!
Except having skill in PvE isn't using 4x Combo. Plus it's not boring and takes A LOT MORE TALENT than PvP.
That is, being EFFICIENT at PvE and not using any elixirs.
I suppose one could say the same about PvP.
You just need to gear up, get the best build, gear and items. Then you win most of the time; as stated by this exact thread.
However, have all the best gear you want, but no elixirs, and you won't win every time in PvE.
You can't tackle those bosses alone, you cannot do anything alone unless you TRULY understand, and are PRO, at PvE.

[AbsolutePally]

There is no such thing as a pro pve player. Thats almost an oxymoron.
Bring me the best pve player or even a team of them and we will 1/1, 3/3, 5/5 ffa or ctf. If they had any talent that talent would carry over into the arena. Which it does not.
Pve players lack: Timing (heals/shield/breaks) range awareness, speed, movement list goes on and on.
If you dont believe me, set it up in game. No more talk.

[CrimsonTider]

What really makes NO sense is a leaderboard for biggest guild. And not one for CTF.
PvE LB is silly too. Ok you smash buttons unskillfully at whatever range with double and triple elixers. Big whoop.

I agree with Drink above. Pve is boring and takes zero to minimal talent, it is repetitive and requires minimal effort.

You know I respect your PvP skills and those who have posted here but to say PvE requires NO skill is a little far fetched. I know because I have been running a lot of pug's the last few days and a lot of people using 4/3x elixir's are dying left and right. I use the 2 handed Orlok sword to tank and many players cannot handle mobs larger than 5-6 (and I usually gather 10 at a time if I can. If PvE required no skill or team understanding, then people would not STILL complain about Haunted Symphony being "too hard". The first thing I do when I join a pug is scan each character so I know who I am playing with and adjust my attack style appropriately.

Your statement about PvE leaderboards can also be stated about PvP. I have personally walked into games the last three days where someone is running around with no gear and the other is boosting their kills. It happens in all areas of the game (lack of integrity), and shouodn't have a finger pointed to just one area.

I agree the LB's are decieving. Laregest guild doesn't represent the "largest guild", it represents the most cap players within one guild. PvE has kill farming as DOES PvP. Just want to clear things up.

[AbsolutePally]

Idk maybe you are right Crim. Im guilty of exaggorating and a fact is I only pve with Revelation members. Or at least 4/5 of my guildmates. Sorry if I come off arrogant.

[CrimsonTider]

Idk maybe you are right Crim. Im guilty of exaggorating and a fact is I only pve with Revelation members. Or at least 4/5 of my guildmates. Sorry if I come off arrogant.

No worries bro! I am use to my COT family slicing through mobs without blinking, but I am brought back to reality in pugs. Same goes for PvP. When I play with known PvPer's, I am much more relaxed and don't have to think as much. When I join random games, I really have to think about each mive as they NEVER run smoothly.

All in a day's work I guess.

[Blind]

I couldn't bother to read other comments, so sorry if i repeat someone.


You get owned by people with vanity bonuses because those people who have it are hardcore pl pros, well most of them. If they can get something they might need in pvp, they are gonna grind 150k xp if needed.

You beat people without the bonuses because those are lazy noobs, who can't pvp.

So yeah. It's all skill. Someone like Dolloway can beat almost anyone using demonic set with no bonus vs a guy with crafted 65 set and full bonus.

Btw here's a fun fact.

I have versed Smilingbird 1v1 twice

I took off my vanity for him one game and won 10-9

Next game i put on the set and won 10-9 again.

Looks like the bonus didn't even make any difference.

Also to those who are concerned about ping. It might be frustrating.

I live in Australia, and my ping is horrible. On pl it's almost always 600-1000.

Well i have versed pros like Acedager and lost 8:10 and Apollo and lost 9:10.

It's 90% skill, and only the rest is gear/ping/something else.

[XghostzX]

I think experience and skill is the biggest component to being a good PvPer at end game level. However, I like having the special bonus. I worked hard for it, investing so much plat and time in to it. It's the same idea with gear. People complain the best gear is too hard to get and/or buy; we all have the same chances in farming, some people get luckier. But like i said, I worked hard getting the best gear in game as I worked hard getting the bonus vanity gears. Players who invest time and plat diserve a bonus, otherwise it's like 150 bucks down the drain (even though spending lots of money on a game is a bit down the drain for me ^_^)

Yeah, I'm a hardcore gamer, PL plays a huge role in my secret life; none of my friends would think it. PvP and the people in this game is what keeps me going... so yeah, if it takes 150k XP to get some awesome bonus, hell yeah I'm going for it.

Go big or go home earn it.

[MightyMicah]

Ok here's what I want to know. Since when did we abandon the idea of stats? Everyone keeps saying "it's all skill it's all skill." It is NOT all skill. First of all luck is a huge factor. Second of all stats are as well. I'm not trying to brag or anything but, I have this so called "skill". You don't earn a legit level 51 1300/200 kill death ratio by having no skill. Why is it I can't even get a 3/2 ratio at top level? Because it is not all skill.

Let's run some numbers based on what Crim said the bonus is: 1 crit 5 dodge, 55 health, and 14 armor.

Ok I shoot four shots at the enemy. Because of his extra armor, he just saved 56 health, plus his extra 55 health. That's 111 health that I don't have. That's only assuming that he doesn't dodge any of my shots. But btw he has more chance of dodging the shots as well...

At this point you are most likely thinking "no dude a lucky crit would change that right away; and don't tell me 1% crit will change that." what did you just say? A LUCKY crit. Suddenly it's no longer skill.

In essence what I'm saying is, by everyone's logic patterns, I might as well equip whatever crap I want. It's all about skill after all. No need to try and equip the best. See the flawed thinking?

If you start asking around you will find ALOT of people who agree with me about the luck factor. You will also find ALOT of people who believe that the vanity bonus is over powered. It's not just a minority group that believes this.

[Mikeylito]

Ok here's what I want to know. Since when did we abandon the idea of stats? Everyone keeps saying "it's all skill it's all skill." It is NOT all skill. First of all luck is a huge factor. Second of all stats are as well. I'm not trying to brag or anything but, I have this so called "skill". You don't earn a legit level 51 1300/200 kill death ratio by having no skill. Why is it I can't even get a 3/2 ratio at top level? Because it is not all skill.

Let's run some numbers based on what Crim said the bonus is: 1 crit 5 dodge, 55 health, and 14 armor.

Ok I shoot four shots at the enemy. Because of his extra armor, he just saved 56 health, plus his extra 55 health. That's 111 health that I don't have. That's only assuming that he doesn't dodge any of my shots. But btw he has more chance of dodging the shots as well...

At this point you are most likely thinking "no dude a lucky crit would change that right away; and don't tell me 1% crit will change that." what did you just say? A LUCKY crit. Suddenly it's no longer skill.

In essence what I'm saying is, by everyone's logic patterns, I might as well equip whatever crap I want. It's all about skill after all. No need to try and equip the best. See the flawed thinking?

If you start asking around you will find ALOT of people who agree with me about the luck factor. You will also find ALOT of people who believe that the vanity bonus is over powered. It's not just a minority group that believes this.

Well said. Ive claimed since day one vanity set is a huge advantage. I wish there was a way they can make all new comers have a chance to get one. Im just glad i have my set i can almost assure you i wont be able to compete with other pro players if i didnt have vanity set on. I tested thoroughly and it does make a difference. I feel really bad for all the newbies!!

[AbsolutePally]

Ok here's what I want to know. Since when did we abandon the idea of stats? Everyone keeps saying "it's all skill it's all skill." It is NOT all skill. First of all luck is a huge factor. Second of all stats are as well. I'm not trying to brag or anything but, I have this so called "skill". You don't earn a legit level 51 1300/200 kill death ratio by having no skill. Why is it I can't even get a 3/2 ratio at top level? Because it is not all skill.

Let's run some numbers based on what Crim said the bonus is: 1 crit 5 dodge, 55 health, and 14 armor.

Ok I shoot four shots at the enemy. Because of his extra armor, he just saved 56 health, plus his extra 55 health. That's 111 health that I don't have. That's only assuming that he doesn't dodge any of my shots. But btw he has more chance of dodging the shots as well...

At this point you are most likely thinking "no dude a lucky crit would change that right away; and don't tell me 1% crit will change that." what did you just say? A LUCKY crit. Suddenly it's no longer skill.

In essence what I'm saying is, by everyone's logic patterns, I might as well equip whatever crap I want. It's all about skill after all. No need to try and equip the best. See the flawed thinking?

If you start asking around you will find ALOT of people who agree with me about the luck factor. You will also find ALOT of people who believe that the vanity bonus is over powered. It's not just a minority group that believes this.

Its not just the vanity bonus but also Crafted Int Wand mages. Now that is overpowered. Even a bear/bird w bonus has a hard time (typically, not Kanital vs newmagenumberthree)

[protectorofnoobs]

nice micah
everybody please read this
i have three 35 twinks, 3 30 twinks, 3 26 twinks, 3 55 pvpers(they twinks yet?), and 3 65 pvpers. A lot of twinks know me and im not the best but i sure am good. i have first-hand experience in both end-game pvp and twink pvp and i can tell you guys that there is a HUGEEEMOOONNGGGOUSSSS difference. WHY? Because of the vanity sets. In twink pvp, dedicated pvpers have very similar gear and therefore the only thing that sets them apart is Skill. However, in endgame pvp, SKILLS and STATS set them apart. Sooooo, if you have the same skill as your opponent and they have better gear, you lose .(most of the time) AAAnndd when somebody is lacking in skill(thats the nicest way i can put it) they still have an equal chance at beating you when your better than them.

Pvp is a sport and like all other sports, your gear should be equal. Its purpose is for you to have fun, improve, and get better at killing other people(not in real life). It isn't fun when people have advantages over you other than skill. Its like youre wearing sandals in basketball while everybody else got those 2k$$ nikes. You will get OWNED.

BUttttttt . . . . . . in the end,
it all comes down to $$MONEY$$. Spacetime Studios won't do anything for pvp unless they get some cha-ching from it.(I can't blame them because theyre a business and thats what they're supposed to do.) Absolutepally honestly mentioned he/she spent 200$ on this game for the purpose of pvp. Well, since this system works, sts will probably keep it. It needs these types of players to give it the $$ to strive and succeed as a business. (I am not saying Absolutepally is bad or anything)

FINAL THOUGHTSFOR DEVS ESPECIALLY)
You can still change their mind if it improves the rate of $$ or doesn't decrease the cha-ching significantly. Pocket Legends should have seperated pvp and pve from the start. The option to Pay $$ to increase your stats and make you a better player and to help out your teammates in pve was a necessary and nice decision. Noone got mad over it, it only made the buyer more happy. However, in pvp more often than not, your on the receiving side and will get your uh buttom whooped because someone paid money. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BUY YOUR VICTORY OVER OTHERS. ITs supposed to be competitive but when anyone can throw money here and there and start owning you just because they have the money its not fun anymore. I can tell all of you forumers that endgame pvp is getting DRY. Only patient people and people who have cash are there now. YUP, pvp is going to suck and have a painful death if sts keeps doing this.

So, suggestions:
Give rewards for pvping (if people get rewards for pveing,then they should get rewards for pvping.) Some people love pve and others pvp. Theyre still giving pl some of their time, and as a result both should get rewards. only allow these cash-paid advantages in pve
let people pay cash to change their appearance or change some other aspects of the game other than their own stats in pvp

[Swimmingstar]

Since I've heard the set gives 15 armor, that could make a small difference.

[Swimmingstar]

nice micah
everybody please read this
i have three 35 twinks, 3 30 twinks, 3 26 twinks, 3 55 pvpers(they twinks yet?), and 3 65 pvpers. A lot of twinks know me and im not the best but i sure am good. i have first-hand experience in both end-game pvp and twink pvp and i can tell you guys that there is a HUGEEEMOOONNGGGOUSSSS difference. WHY? Because of the vanity sets. In twink pvp, dedicated pvpers have very similar gear and therefore the only thing that sets them apart is Skill. However, in endgame pvp, SKILLS and STATS set them apart. Sooooo, if you have the same skill as your opponent and they have better gear, you lose .(most of the time) AAAnndd when somebody is lacking in skill(thats the nicest way i can put it) they still have an equal chance at beating you when your better than them.

Pvp is a sport and like all other sports, your gear should be equal. Its purpose is for you to have fun, improve, and get better at killing other people(not in real life). It isn't fun when people have advantages over you other than skill. Its like youre wearing sandals in basketball while everybody else got those 2k$$ nikes. You will get OWNED.

BUttttttt . . . . . . in the end,
it all comes down to $$MONEY$$. Spacetime Studios won't do anything for pvp unless they get some cha-ching from it.(I can't blame them because theyre a business and thats what they're supposed to do.) Absolutepally honestly mentioned he/she spent 200$ on this game for the purpose of pvp. Well, since this system works, sts will probably keep it. It needs these types of players to give it the $$ to strive and succeed as a business. (I am not saying Absolutepally is bad or anything)

FINAL THOUGHTSFOR DEVS ESPECIALLY)
You can still change their mind if it improves the rate of $$ or doesn't decrease the cha-ching significantly. Pocket Legends should have seperated pvp and pve from the start. The option to Pay $$ to increase your stats and make you a better player and to help out your teammates in pve was a necessary and nice decision. Noone got mad over it, it only made the buyer more happy. However, in pvp more often than not, your on the receiving side and will get your uh buttom whooped because someone paid money. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BUY YOUR VICTORY OVER OTHERS. ITs supposed to be competitive but when anyone can throw money here and there and start owning you just because they have the money its not fun anymore. I can tell all of you forumers that endgame pvp is getting DRY. Only patient people and people who have cash are there now. YUP, pvp is going to suck and have a painful death if sts keeps doing this.

So, suggestions:
Give rewards for pvping (if people get rewards for pveing,then they should get rewards for pvping.) Some people love pve and others pvp. Theyre still giving pl some of their time, and as a result both should get rewards. only allow these cash-paid advantages in pve
let people pay cash to change their appearance or change some other aspects of the game other than their own stats in pvp

Agreed, if it keeps going like this. Soon the set will be like wearing another crafted set. Double ownage.