Mythical Bow need a DMG nerf & Rhino need tweak!

[Waug]

Before we see a nerf bow, rhino should be tweaked first because nobody wanna see that after bow nerfing (of course IF it's happening) Rhinoes are two hit killing every non tanky class.

Bow nerfing should make -

-Tank classes viable including bear. I Don't see why they say bears not viable but it easily beck stomp kill non tanky classes and in a teamplay it's STILL the best asset for a team
but get killed so easily with bow so yeah, after the nerf it should be good even at 1v1.

-Mages viable as well, I don't see mages being weak other than being too squeezy against bow so I don't think they need any buff other than they lacking some mana pool if that we wanna add some like +2k at the INT gear of course..

As for the nerf, 600 damage reduction from bow auto damage but at the same time 500 armor increment of bow should be fine as armor is too low need balance.

As for Rhino we need to fix 2 hit kills and for that skill 'Redemption' 2x combo damage can be lowered to 1.5x and in return add damage to 'Rhino Might' skill and 'Holy tempest', It's fine that if it gets more damage than loosing if that can empower them at other levels as well(Although I've NO clue if that they really good or bad at twink) but the purpose is of course distribute all the damage from Rhino's combo to other skills.

Well thoughtful comments are welcome but criticizing and funny comments are most welcome bcz some of them are really enjoyable.

[Congeniality]

I think Rhino needs to be tweaked as well. If we remove them from the game, they will surely be balanced.

[MageFFA]

Before we see a nerf bow, rhino should be tweaked first because nobody wanna see that after bow nerfing (of course IF it's happening) Rhinoes are two hit killing every non tanky class.

Bow nerfing should make -

-Tank classes viable including bear. I Don't see why they say bears not viable but it easily beck stomp kill non tanky classes and in a teamplay it's STILL the best asset for a team
but get killed so easily with bow so yeah, after the nerf it should be good even at 1v1.

-Mages viable as well, I don't see mages being weak other than being too squeezy against bow so I don't think they need any buff other than they lacking some mana pool if that we wanna add some like +2k at the INT gear of course..

As for the nerf, 600 damage reduction from bow auto damage but at the same time 500 armor increment of bow should be fine as armor is too low need balance.

As for Rhino we need to fix 2 hit kills and for that skill 'Redemption' 2x combo damage can be lowered to 1.5x and in return add damage to 'Rhino Might' skill and 'Holy tempest', It's fine that if it gets more damage than loosing if that can empower them at other levels as well(Although I've NO clue if that they really good or bad at twink) but the purpose is of course distribute all the damage from Rhino's combo to other skills.

Well thoughtful comments are welcome but criticizing and funny comments are most welcome bcz some of them are really enjoyable.

If rhinos are to be nerfed then a mage nerf should follow right after if not before. Mages posses the highest skill damage in the game. The acher skill 'Blash Shot' has a base damage of 164 at maximum when it's L.6. Mages drain has 254, Light has 220, Frost at 6 is 120 which is more than 6 Stomp, and fire is 230. Ontop of a overpowered arsenal dedicated to skill damage they also have the highest critical rating in game, only 1 off of the games MAIN Crit class. Even with both of those points mages also have the ability to be guaranteed 100% of the time that drain life will provide health back, a function that was nerfed on rhinos in 2013 just for the same exact reason.

Mages need to be nerfed, foxes need to be nerfed, Bears dodge needs to be brought back and IB needs to be nerfed. Let's make this happen since we want to completely annihilate classes. I've already started a thread on mages going into detail on why they are op anyways. The class is skilless. It crits for x5 mkre dmg than any other class and ontop of that they crit more likely than even archers, their drain is broken and guarantees full hp back.

[dmt]

If rhinos are to be nerfed then a mage nerf should follow right after if not before. Mages posses the highest skill damage in the game. The acher skill 'Blash Shot' has a base damage of 164 at maximum when it's L.6. Mages drain has 254, Light has 220, Frost at 6 is 120 which is more than 6 Stomp, and fire is 230. Ontop of a overpowered arsenal dedicated to skill damage they also have the highest critical rating in game, only 1 off of the games MAIN Crit class. Even with both of those points mages also have the ability to be guaranteed 100% of the time that drain life will provide health back, a function that was nerfed on rhinos in 2013 just for the same exact reason.

Mages need to be nerfed, foxes need to be nerfed, Bears dodge needs to be brought back and IB needs to be nerfed. Let's make this happen since we want to completely annihilate classes. I've already started a thread on mages going into detail on why they are op anyways. The class is skilless. It crits for x5 mkre dmg than any other class and ontop of that they crit more likely than even archers, their drain is broken and guarantees full hp back.

this is not a twink thread. Waug is talking about MYTIC SETS not twink elites. Rhinos needs a nerf and Mytic Bows needs a nerf as well also Mages needs a better heal at least. (No Twink here)

[MageFFA]

this is not a twink thread. Waug is talking about MYTIC SETS not twink elites. Rhinos needs a nerf and Mytic Bows needs a nerf as well also Mages needs a better heal at least. (No Twink here)

Did you not read the very first sentence he wrote? A nerf on rhino effects the class globably as all class nerfs does. If he was making a thread he would of made his points directly based on gear alone but he didn't. Even then mages are broken in endgame already. Players try to justify it by saying how easily birds beat mages but ignores the reality of debuffs. If blind misses or is dodged a mage will win 70% of the time against birds and bears can't even beat mages anymore.

[Soupah]

Did you not read the very first sentence he wrote? A nerf on rhino effects the class globably as all class nerfs does. If he was making a thread he would of made his points directly based on gear alone but he didn't. Even then mages are broken in endgame already. Players try to justify it by saying how easily birds beat mages but ignores the reality of debuffs. If blind misses or is dodged a mage will win 70% of the time against birds and bears can't even beat mages anymore.

I disagree mages aren’t broken.


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[MageFFA]

I disagree mages aren’t broken.


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Again test honor PvP with a bear or any other class outside of bird and it's in plain sight. Birds is what gives people the perception that mages aren't op thanks to their-70 blind. Even Rose, Jun and dolloway admitted to mages needing to be tweaked.

[Soupah]

Before we see a nerf bow, rhino should be tweaked first because nobody wanna see that after bow nerfing (of course IF it's happening) Rhinoes are two hit killing every non tanky class.

Bow nerfing should make -

-Tank classes viable including bear. I Don't see why they say bears not viable but it easily beck stomp kill non tanky classes and in a teamplay it's STILL the best asset for a team
but get killed so easily with bow so yeah, after the nerf it should be good even at 1v1.

-Mages viable as well, I don't see mages being weak other than being too squeezy against bow so I don't think they need any buff other than they lacking some mana pool if that we wanna add some like +2k at the INT gear of course..

As for the nerf, 600 damage reduction from bow auto damage but at the same time 500 armor increment of bow should be fine as armor is too low need balance.

As for Rhino we need to fix 2 hit kills and for that skill 'Redemption' 2x combo damage can be lowered to 1.5x and in return add damage to 'Rhino Might' skill and 'Holy tempest', It's fine that if it gets more damage than loosing if that can empower them at other levels as well(Although I've NO clue if that they really good or bad at twink) but the purpose is of course distribute all the damage from Rhino's combo to other skills.

Well thoughtful comments are welcome but criticizing and funny comments are most welcome bcz some of them are really enjoyable.

I think Mages need a buff fr fr


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[dmt]

Mages needs a buff at endgame or Mytic sets needs it on mages specially INT

[MageFFA]

Mages needs a buff at endgame or Mytic sets needs it on mages specially INT

Yes endgame int set does need a buff, or better yet just fix dex sets to see if said PvP would be more balanced. You have a bow thats 13 meters, 14 meter kite range. Not only is it a bow so its going to do far too much damage, it's impossible to kite or run from it. Terrible idea from the devs.

[Waug]

If rhinos are to be nerfed then a mage nerf should follow right after if not before. Mages posses the highest skill damage in the game. The acher skill 'Blash Shot' has a base damage of 164 at maximum when it's L.6. Mages drain has 254, Light has 220, Frost at 6 is 120 which is more than 6 Stomp, and fire is 230. Ontop of a overpowered arsenal dedicated to skill damage they also have the highest critical rating in game, only 1 off of the games MAIN Crit class. Even with both of those points mages also have the ability to be guaranteed 100% of the time that drain life will provide health back, a function that was nerfed on rhinos in 2013 just for the same exact reason.

Mages need to be nerfed, foxes need to be nerfed, Bears dodge needs to be brought back and IB needs to be nerfed. Let's make this happen since we want to completely annihilate classes. I've already started a thread on mages going into detail on why they are op anyways. The class is skilless. It crits for x5 mkre dmg than any other class and ontop of that they crit more likely than even archers, their drain is broken and guarantees full hp back.

Did you not read the very first sentence he wrote? A nerf on rhino effects the class globably as all class nerfs does. If he was making a thread he would of made his points directly based on gear alone but he didn't. Even then mages are broken in endgame already. Players try to justify it by saying how easily birds beat mages but ignores the reality of debuffs. If blind misses or is dodged a mage will win 70% of the time against birds and bears can't even beat mages anymore.

Dude You need to chill and read my post carefully before keep stating something irrelevant and misinterpret. Yes lol, it's mostly irrelevant and you misinterpret about rhino "nerf" which I didn't even talked about (please read carefully)-

1- About mages, you're bringing twinking issues here which is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT here, No mage class buff or nerf has been suggested here other than 2k mana pool adding to gear even which wouldn't effect the class.

2- I didn't ask to Nerf rhino, rather I asked tweak that to prevent it's two hit kills and what you missed is that, I preferred adding extra damage on other skills of rhino even if totally we are adding more damage than reduction from one single skill. You talked alot about rhino but denied one particular issue about endgame, never commented on that, should it be able to two hit kill opponents? You never addressed the issue. As far twinking with rhino I kept the issue in my mind and asked adding more damage on other skills but reduction on one hit all damage type of thing .

Also for your information, I never asked for mage buff in the past rather nerf since L77 cap, so if mages are op at winking doesn't relate to me any way. You just need to chill lol
Also let me tell you one thing, if you read rhino skills properly you would see the class is meant to be tanking and support in teamplay not to go and nuke everyone lol take classes the way it meant to be. Rhino has very high potential as tank and team support aka high team buff and heal.

Specially the new classes never been taken that way, each and everyone who tried, took those classes as exploitation, well you wan me to be aggressive i can be, it's just the beginning.

I think mythic endgame is fine i kill everyone, they kill me, you just got to know what you're doing. Mage is by far the weakest class this cap but its always going to be that way every cap cant expect a "perfect balance".

Nope it's not about Perfect balance, 100% players are birds. Just 2 mages that play one just focus on easy kills and only teamplay thats what they do.

I think Rhino needs to be tweaked as well. If we remove them from the game, they will surely be balanced.

I really liked the way ppl comment something but in reality they hardly even played last 2-3 caps, that shows love towards PL, keep it up.

[MageFFA]

Dude You need to chill and read my post carefully before keep stating something irrelevant and misinterpret. Yes lol, it's mostly irrelevant and you misinterpret about rhino "nerf" which I didn't even talked about (please read carefully)-

1- About mages, you're bringing twinking issues here which is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT here, No mage class buff or nerf has been suggested here other than 2k mana pool adding to gear even which wouldn't effect the class.

2- I didn't ask to Nerf rhino, rather I asked tweak that to prevent it's two hit kills and what you missed is that, I preferred adding extra damage on other skills of rhino even if totally we are adding more damage than reduction from one single skill. You talked alot about rhino but denied one particular issue about endgame, never commented on that, should it be able to two hit kill opponents? You never addressed the issue. As far twinking with rhino I kept the issue in my mind and asked adding more damage on other skills but reduction on one hit all damage type of thing .

Also for your information, I never asked for mage buff in the past rather nerf since L77 cap, so if mages are op at winking doesn't relate to me any way. You just need to chill lol
Also let me tell you one thing, if you read rhino skills properly you would see the class is meant to be tanking and support in teamplay not to go and nuke everyone lol take classes the way it meant to be. Rhino has very high potential as tank and team support aka high team buff and heal.

Specially the new classes never been taken that way, each and everyone who tried, took those classes as exploitation, well you wan me to be aggressive i can be, it's just the beginning.



Nope it's not about Perfect balance, 100% players are birds. Just 2 mages that play one just focus on easy kills and only teamplay thats what they do.


I really liked the way ppl comment something but in reality they hardly even played last 2-3 caps, that shows love towards PL, keep it up.

You're legitimately taking rhino as a class that should only be used in support with no chances of gaining kills. For starters rhinos aren't even good at supporting teams in endgame. What is a measly 30 damage and 5 armor going to do to 14k damage and 3k armor? Riddle me that. The last time rhinos were a good supporting class was in 40 where the stats actually meant something.

1* Again. You wrote this post yet you still can't come to grasp that touching redemption is still Nerfing the class? Have i not said there has already been 3 previous nerfs towards redemption? How hard is it to understand that without sets that can be easily exploited rhinos are considerably garbage? Honor proves it and the past does also. I did rhino from L.5-71 during 76 and 77 cap. 71 was damn near endgame as it is. They couldn't tank, they couldn't offer good team support, amd better yet they were just as easy to kill as aiming for a sharp mage. I did 56 Glyphic strongman rhino, and that couldn't kill anything 56 related but birds. 61 demonic mace rhinos lost to 56s. 66 rhinos couldn't kill 61s. 85 rhino was the worst of the the classes yet i seen nobody complaining about it then.

2* What damage tweaks could you do? That x2 damage multiplier that you and gotenks keeps talking about is nothing more than combo damage. It's no different than beck stomp or shatter blast. Just because a class is labeled as tank or support doesn't mean it shouldn't have the ability to gain kills. The entire game revolves around using the best gear available for your class so why do you continue to blame this on rhinos? From my time doing rhino back then, mind you rhinos have never been buffed but has been nerfed 3 times, i racked up a neg KDR from 61-71 then 85-105. Rhinos didn't become a viable class until Cinco had given them a boost towards their set in 100 cap.

3* What exactly can you do that would help rhino? Like make them useful in honor PvP. They have the lowest HP on the game. Their tanking ability is sub par when next to bears. Their heal cooldown is 2 seconds too long, they only have 3 attack skills, 4 if you include rhino might that does no damage, 2 once you take into consideration that redemption became a useless skill after the 3rd nerf, 1 when you consider that charge could only correlate with redemption for combo damage. That leaves you with Holy Tempest. So please tell me how you of all people are supposed to fix a class that I've played since it's launch. The minute thr armor value on mythic sets is increased to match damage step for step is the day rhinos cease to be useful in endgame.

4* Play honor against a rhino in both 100 and elite set then respond back to this post.

[Waug]

You're legitimately taking rhino as a class that should only be used in support with no chances of gaining kills. For starters rhinos aren't even good at supporting teams in endgame. What is a measly 30 damage and 5 armor going to do to 14k damage and 3k armor? Riddle me that. The last time rhinos were a good supporting class was in 40 where the stats actually meant something.

1* Again. You wrote this post yet you still can't come to grasp that touching redemption is still Nerfing the class? Have i not said there has already been 3 previous nerfs towards redemption? How hard is it to understand that without sets that can be easily exploited rhinos are considerably garbage? Honor proves it and the past does also. I did rhino from L.5-71 during 76 and 77 cap. 71 was damn near endgame as it is. They couldn't tank, they couldn't offer good team support, amd better yet they were just as easy to kill as aiming for a sharp mage. I did 56 Glyphic strongman rhino, and that couldn't kill anything 56 related but birds. 61 demonic mace rhinos lost to 56s. 66 rhinos couldn't kill 61s. 85 rhino was the worst of the the classes yet i seen nobody complaining about it then.

2* What damage tweaks could you do? That x2 damage multiplier that you and gotenks keeps talking about is nothing more than combo damage. It's no different than beck stomp or shatter blast. Just because a class is labeled as tank or support doesn't mean it shouldn't have the ability to gain kills. The entire game revolves around using the best gear available for your class so why do you continue to blame this on rhinos? From my time doing rhino back then, mind you rhinos have never been buffed but has been nerfed 3 times, i racked up a neg KDR from 61-71 then 85-105. Rhinos didn't become a viable class until Cinco had given them a boost towards their set in 100 cap.

3* What exactly can you do that would help rhino? Like make them useful in honor PvP. They have the lowest HP on the game. Their tanking ability is sub par when next to bears. Their heal cooldown is 2 seconds too long, they only have 3 attack skills, 4 if you include rhino might that does no damage, 2 once you take into consideration that redemption became a useless skill after the 3rd nerf, 1 when you consider that charge could only correlate with redemption for combo damage. That leaves you with Holy Tempest. So please tell me how you of all people are supposed to fix a class that I've played since it's launch. The minute thr armor value on mythic sets is increased to match damage step for step is the day rhinos cease to be useful in endgame.

4* Play honor against a rhino in both 100 and elite set then respond back to this post.

I didn't say rhino should not be able to kill, I said "nuke", A tanking class shouldn't be able to nuke, get your thing straight first.
Now you still didn't answer my question. I WANT THE ANSWER FIRST right now, no need your long posts, just answer my question that you denied ever since.

Whatever your logic is but that doesn't mean Rhino should be doing what it does in the MOST POPULAR & DEDICATED, hardcore and ever changing pvp level that is ENDGAME about that two hit kills that I mentioned many times.

I'm just literally confused about what pvp level you do with rhino, if I know then I can come up with something that can balance things, if that is your purpose.
WHAT IS YOUR RHINO PVP LEVEL THAT YOU PLAY? make it clear first.

[3pc]

I think mythic endgame is fine i kill everyone, they kill me, you just got to know what you're doing. Mage is by far the weakest class this cap but its always going to be that way every cap cant expect a "perfect balance".

[Set]

i agree with Waug at all. please keep your twink issues far from endgame threads quit being so annoying and learn respect. tired of this person ruining all the threads. if this game is so bad to you just quit playing.

[CrimsonTider]

Good grief. Both of you are going back and forth, ignoring parts of the others argument. Balance has never occurred at any cap, and mindless arguments aren't going to resolve things. If you want STS to hear you, stop insulting and learn to debate.

[Waug]

Good grief. Both of you are going back and forth, ignoring parts of the others argument. Balance has never occurred at any cap, and mindless arguments aren't going to resolve things. If you want STS to hear you, stop insulting and learn to debate.

Sorry but there was no insult from my side and he also avoided insulting at least in this thread lol
About ignoring part, I just focus on exact main thing otherwise I had to type paragraph after pargraph to describe non so relevant things.
And about sts listening, my purpose never to force em, I just put concern. It's not my loss it's pl's loss.

Thank you

Edit :
I'm thankful to sts (Cinco) for listening enormous times the reason endgame is still fun to play since 77 cap, otherwise the way it was going, wouldn't be playable at all, so that's not true that balance never happened.