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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: The trend of market value manipulation

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    Forum Adept Bundlos's Avatar
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    Default The trend of market value manipulation

    Hi,

    Of late I have been noticing same merchants using multiple accounts to manipulate trending items. It's either that or they make their friends or people who they are in cahoots with drop fake offers to permanently manipulate the market value of X Item (or) they themselves post a fake offer and close the thread stating that it is sold to that fake offer and then bring up the same item for sale after a period of time lapse.

    It's a choice to overpay for something while making a purchase, one overprice purchase does not always make it the norm that the X item bought is valued at that much. I'll give you an example: Before armor zhulong came out in store some bought it for 70-100m despite knowing that the price would drop significantly once it comes to store (this is overpayment, a self-made choice).

    On the other hand we have the people who control the game market, the manipulators who employ the above-mentioned tactics to permanently alter the valuation of stuff to their advantage. Now, as I see it, the root of the problem starts from forums. Seller makes a thread, fakes it, then the thread is there to stay and unsuspecting people fall for it, and that faked amount becomes the norm. Let's classify buyer into two types- the skeptics, and the believers. The skeptics I would say, they do their homework, have an overall idea of the market and often get ganged upon when they call someone out for their manipulation. The unsuspecting believers are the ones who will fall for just about anything they see, then these people also lead others (friends/guildies) to believe the same in their line of communication and that's how an X-price becomes a norm more often than not (I don't blame you if you are the latter, it's only human nature).

    Traders market is anyway not a highly monitored place unless someone gets called out or reported and action is taken against them nor can I expect it to be monitored because there are lots of things going on there all the time. I've seen many a times people replying to posts "price manipulation is a ban-able offense" and I went over the ToS, it does not explicitly mention that it is, although it does affect the in-game market significantly. I asked myself this question before making this thread- what purpose does having multiple forum accounts serve? The only thing I could come up with is anonymity, be it for trash talking with people or just for manipulation. I don't see how it serves any useful purpose.

    So, I have a few questions for the devs:
    1. Where does such action stand according to you all? Would you say it an offense?
    2. Third party apps such as Tapatalk at least has a serial number that helps identify a same user of multiple accounts. Can we get an identifier for multiple account users who use forums from other platforms? If nothing else, it will at least keep people from getting played.

    Consider this thread as an alert to buyers, a rant, or whatever you want to call it. I'll leave on the note that seeing isn't believing.
    -I am not AFK, I just have arcane ping-

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    Senior Member TheBlairWitch's Avatar
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    Default

    That might be why so many bots in the game.
    🍀The Green Witch🍀
    IGN:Theblairwitch

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    there are no "real prices." it's all based on supply and demand so the true price should be based on what the last buyer was willing to pay for it. i dont mind overpaying a few million over market price for items that i need immediately or really want.

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    How is this a ban-able offense?
    It is not because:
    1.)It is completely on the buyer to do the homework to offer and buy the item for a set amount of gold whether normal or overpriced.

    2.) STS isn't setting fixed prices for each item they are releasing so this tells us that this is a essential mechanism of the game.

    3.)Furthur, the new awakening system gives different awakens in different probabilities..
    So the setting of prices is uncertain and player based infused with the amount of gold spent on awaken gems of seller also.
    This is also a mechanism bought in by STS which tells us that this is utter bs about fixed range of prices or else being a ban-able offense.

    4.)Moreover many sellers will pay different sums of gold to buy same item...this brings a new dimension to this game which makes it more engaging.
    This is a culmination of a few factors like :
    A.)how badly the buyer needs the item.
    B.)how rich the buyer is.how much spare gold he got.
    C.)For a merch that he knows he can sell for even more.
    ..
    Do not label the seller alone as guilty as per ops post..buyers are also the future sellers.

    The only people I can see complaining on this topic are the ones who just ask for prices but don't buy but shout overprice and go to lengths to post in media about this asking for bans.(facepalm)

    Do not worry..If you think it's overprice ,don't buy there will be a buyer for that price...or...
    The seller will reduce his expectation on what he can get out of the item..

    But the time you mentioned logging in from different accounts and marketing the same item and soliciting wrong offers from multiple devices at same time seems to be a fraud...
    Other than this..

    Nothing of this closely even sums to being a ban-able offense except for the wannabe buyers who rant about overprice and spouting that it's a ban-able offense in the forums and in game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilweezy View Post
    there are no "real prices." it's all based on supply and demand so the true price should be based on what the last buyer was willing to pay for it. i dont mind overpaying a few million over market price for items that i need immediately or really want.
    True.

    11chars

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    I very much agree with what Bundlos has gone on about (for the most part). However, some part of price manipulation also comes from developers. (However, do take note that under ToS of Arcane Legends, developers own the right to change the price/proc/stats of an item without informing the game prior.) When they change the proc of an item, i.e : Skratch/Skull-dozer/Duggar , or announce the arrival of an event i.e : Awakening event, these announcements can cause the value of certain items to rise/drop significantly. (In this instance, new 76 Arcanes rose in price, elite awakening gem kits rose, while normal awakening gems saw a huge drop in price and demand.) This reply isn’t to push the blame of price market manipulation to the developers, (no, not at all), but simply to inform all Arlorians that the developers may do as they please, since they technically own the game, and ask for Arlorians to respect their decisions.
    On the other hand, price manipulators, since you’ve mentioned that they do not directly break any ToS of AL (i’m taking this bit of information from Bundlos), technically what they’re doing is allowed. (Although it’s scummy and affects the game experience for everyone else). Therefore, while developers may do as they deem fit, I too would like a way of implementing a system of detecting people who are manipulating prices with multiple devices from a single/other devices.
    Thanks for reading, and feel free to criticise any points I’ve added on.

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    Disclaimer: it only works if the player says the ign of his/her alt. twink on the same account.

    Here is a basic trick I've myself found out for knowing if the price/ current offer is being faked by the seller or no.

    Simply put the ign of the seller in the ignore list.
    Then try adding the name mentioned by the seller for the current offer he/she got from.

    The name shall either be added or it would say, the name already exists in the ignore list.

    Ignoring a player basically ignores all the alternate characters a player has, giving him no chance to stalk you or disturb you via his alt.

    It would work only upto certain extent. Though there are many flaws in this tip, Its worth trying, because i have caught many players using this simple method, whom later became toxic and abusive.

    Hope it helps,

    Peace.
    Last edited by MasterSan; 02-03-2020 at 08:43 AM.

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    It happens in real life too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSan View Post
    Disclaimer: it only works if the player says the ign of his/her alt. twink on the same account.

    Here is a basic trick I've myself found out for knowing if the price/ current offer is being faked by the seller or no.

    Simply put the ign of the seller in the ignore list.
    Then try adding the name mentioned by the seller for the current offer he/she got from.

    The name shall either be added or it would say, the name already exists in the ignore list.

    Ignoring a player basically ignores all the alternate characters a player has, giving him no chance to stalk you or disturb you via his alt.

    It would work only upto certain extent. Though there are many flaws in this tip, Its worth trying, because i have caught many players using this simple method, whom later became toxic and abusive.

    Hope it helps,

    Peace.
    That's an idea Yea but ppl coukd make a new guest acc whenever they want and fake it too.

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    Senior Member Encryptions's Avatar
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    I should make a yt vid on how to be safe from these people who make fake c/o's.

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    Well yea.. provide lots of tips.

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    I know someone using alt to fake c/o he's IGN is Jeuxheinze and Mccook same person so beware to that guy
    Last edited by anjin; 02-03-2020 at 01:47 PM.

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    I think making multiple accounts for the purpose of making fake offers and trying to manipulate people in to overpaying for your item should be bannable, at least a forum ban. However, I'm not expecting STS to keep a close eye on Trader's Market because there are probably more than 50 new threads daily and they would probably need a guy that specifically monitors only that part of the forum.

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    This whole thread seems like a whole lotta bologna itís usually people who want the items for cheaper prices or wanna merch but Someone give them a offer higher then thereís they get mad and say fake offers I agree to check it the current offer is from same acc thatís scummy but any other way is not provable and makes zero sense if I donít post any of the ppl who give me offers then all my current offers can be deemed fake? Come on now lmao


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    Here is the video; I forgot to mention another way to spot them is if you have the same item and they are trying to sell it super high so you offer to sell it to them for a lot less and they decline to buy yours even though you want 2m for the item and they want 7m. I do this so much to people, and they decline me. I try to sell them the same item but super "cheap".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Encryptions View Post
    Here is the video; I forgot to mention another way to spot them is if you have the same item and they are trying to sell it super high so you offer to sell it to them for a lot less and they decline to buy yours even though you want 2m for the item and they want 7m. I do this so much to people, and they decline me. I try to sell them the same item but super "cheap".

    This here is a great video once again from encryptions touched base on ALL subjects and aspects of this topic I think we should just end the forum on this note because any questions you have directed to this topic is found in said video


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    Forum Adept Bundlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smellybumm View Post
    This here is a great video once again from encryptions touched base on ALL subjects and aspects of this topic I think we should just end the forum on this note because any questions you have directed to this topic is found in said video


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    My questions were directed to the devs and I'm not new to the tips. And why should it end? Or do I smell insecurity here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bundlos View Post
    My questions were directed to the devs and I'm not new to the tips. And why should it end? Or do I smell insecurity here
    I just feel anymore digging into this is all senseless non provable speech encryptions covered literally everything that can be done to help make sure the offer is a real c/o and what are you trying to say about insecurityís wanna be specific or are we gonna keep beating around the bush also if we leave it here or not itís still up to the Dev weather or not they will even reply to this seeing if it meaningful to do so or a waste of time


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    Quote Originally Posted by Smellybumm View Post
    I just feel anymore digging into this is all senseless non provable speech encryptions covered literally everything that can be done to help make sure the offer is a real c/o and what are you trying to say about insecurity’s wanna be specific or are we gonna keep beating around the bush also if we leave it here or not it’s still up to the Dev weather or not they will even reply to this seeing if it meaningful to do so or a waste of time


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    Imagine being against an obvious improvement of quality of life. The only reason why it's not done is because it's too much work, there's not a single positive thing about it.

    I think you should re-read the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcanefid View Post
    Imagine being against an obvious improvement of quality of life. The only reason why it's not done is because it's too much work, there's not a single positive thing about it.

    I think you should re-read the OP.
    I read it just fine the first time and like I said how are you gonna stop friends from ďmanipulatingĒ prices? If Iím a guild master and I tell officers to bump my thread with good offers for a expensive new item how is that supposed to be stopped? Your right itís to much work and itís a obvious waste of time I could understand if there was set prices for the items but the market always varies and who said I was against it? Like I said the responses after mine are just Nonsense speech Encryptions covered everything in the video posted but when u comes to fourms thatís completely out of their hands there supposed to have some random guy watching fourms 24/7 to make sure prices arenít being manipulated? What kinda nonsense is that? Big waste of time especially since people can just list items that are not commonly in auc for high prices and some person who really wants it decides to offer them little lower then what is currently in auc for? All nonsense speech like I said typing this was a huge waste of time I think you should re read op post and see all the flaws in what he is asking for tell me how much sense it really makes


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