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Thread: Quality of Life buff for Fox

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    Default Quality of Life buff for Fox

    Fox Heal (Bandage) cooldown is 30 seconds. It's unreasonable.

    I doubt this will have an effect on twink PvP.

    In Endgame this change would mean that I don't have to rejoin after every single 1v1 or ask someone to heal me up. Which is quite annoying.

    I'm asking to have its cooldown reduced to 16.25s. Same as Bird and Bear.
    *Edit: MageFFA has reasonable concerns regarding 30-40 Honor Fox. So I will adjust my request.

    Reduce Bandage cooldown to 16.25s. Halve regeneration tick value.
    Last edited by Tpfelblatt; 03-08-2020 at 09:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpfelblatt View Post
    Fox Heal (Bandage) cooldown is 30 seconds. It's unreasonable.

    I doubt this will have an effect on twink PvP.

    In Endgame this change would mean that I don't have to rejoin after every single 1v1 or ask someone to heal me up. Which is quite annoying.

    I'm asking to have its cooldown reduced to 16.25s. Same as Bird and Bear.
    Evade needs a lower cooldown or last longer as well for l10 evade

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpfelblatt View Post
    Fox Heal (Bandage) cooldown is 30 seconds. It's unreasonable.

    I doubt this will have an effect on twink PvP.

    In Endgame this change would mean that I don't have to rejoin after every single 1v1 or ask someone to heal me up. Which is quite annoying.

    I'm asking to have its cooldown reduced to 16.25s. Same as Bird and Bear.
    In a way it will. 6 bandage is already OP with a regen set at 40. 6 works enough without a regen set also. I think L.10 bandage should cut the regen down by half and made it a little stronger though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by holdmytalons View Post
    Evade needs a lower cooldown or last longer as well for l10 evade
    If you are saying that fox needs a lower cooldown for the unstun part of Evasion, then I agree. But I'd go at it in a different way because that skill directly affects the combatativeness of Fox. In every stage of PvP; twink or endgame. It deserves a whole new thread imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    In a way it will. 6 bandage is already OP with a regen set at 40. 6 works enough without a regen set also. I think L.10 bandage should cut the regen down by half and made it a little stronger though.
    I've tried it and I don't disagree, but at the same time I think its effect is negligible. I'm guessing that you are talking about Fox vs Bird/Bear FFA 1v1 in Lvl 40 specifically. Fox will take off its 25 Elite armor which sets Health to 500 something and pops the lv6 Bandage and runs to full health. This change would make that playstyle more effective. Then again, if you really want to play like that, you can already do that right now The 13.75 seconds shaved off don't really do much. You'll get to fight 13.75 seconds sooner.

    OP means over powered, right...? Bandage... overpowered??!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpfelblatt View Post
    If you are saying that fox needs a lower cooldown for the unstun part of Evasion, then I agree. But I'd go at it in a different way because that skill directly affects the combatativeness of Fox. In every stage of PvP; twink or endgame. It deserves a whole new thread imo.



    I've tried it and I don't disagree, but at the same time I think its effect is negligible. I'm guessing that you are talking about Fox vs Bird/Bear FFA 1v1 in Lvl 40 specifically. Fox will take off its 25 Elite armor which sets Health to 500 something and pops the lv6 Bandage and runs to full health. This change would make that playstyle more effective. Then again, if you really want to play like that, you can already do that right now The 13.75 seconds shaved off don't really do much. You'll get to fight 13.75 seconds sooner.

    OP means over powered, right...? Bandage... overpowered??!?
    It's not OP in the literal sense of being a game changer but since it's on the fox class, arguably the most broken class depending on how you view mage, it's a problem. At 110 yeah it's weak considering birds can heal for half HP at best in honor, but down in 40 that's not the case. You already do not need to use shred as it is since your damage is so high. The extra kick to vitality would make you a even dangerous opponent. I'm talking 40 honor here. FFAing a fox with another buff towards it, in this case a halved Bandage, would mean players who main fox would run until they can spam bandage until full. Considering 1v1ing a fox as any other class would see you losing I'm sure you'll get the point.
    Last edited by MageFFA; 03-08-2020 at 08:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    It's not OP in the literal sense of being a game changer but since it's on the fox class, arguably the most broken class depending on how you view mage, it's a problem. At 110 yeah it's weak considering birds can heal for half HP at best in honor, but down in 40 that's not the case. You already do not need to use shred as it is since your damage is so high. The extra kick to vitality would make you a even dangerous opponent. I'm talking 40 honor here. FFAing a fox with another buff towards it, in this case a halved Bandage, would mean players who main fox would run until they can spam bandage until full. Considering 1v1ing a fox as any other class would see you losing I'm sure you'll get the point.
    Yea but we r talking bout 110 fox all he has to do is buff l8-10 skills and 40 wont be affected

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    Quote Originally Posted by holdmytalons View Post
    Yea but we r talking bout 110 fox all he has to do is buff l8-10 skills and 40 wont be affected

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    That's what i said...the problem is when you don't mention Endgame Level skills, 7+, the devs take the suggestion as a global buff. As cinco said he doesn't nerf classes by level range but by global. When foxes was buffed in 100 it absolutely ruined the hierarchy of Low level PvP, 16-76. Foxes went from a already A tier class in 22 to being a S tier that not even 27s and 30s wanted to fight. Foxes became/are the most annoying thing to exist in 35 and 40 since OG fbows, Dodge Era PvP, and when the devs had tinsel and gleam be usable in PvP. Being a fox in 40 usually sees you get teamed or called out by other players for using the class.

    Take bears as another example. Thanks to dodge being so OP in 40, 56, and endgame thanks to gear exploitation the entire class was jacked by the dodge nerf. Even still to this day i only use 3 evasion in endgame because anything higher doesn't work. The entire skill is as good as meditation at this point.

    Another example and the biggest of them all is birds. One level ruined it for over 70% of the games level base.
    Last edited by MageFFA; 03-08-2020 at 08:40 PM.

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    I see your point. I hadn't considered 30-40 Honor PvP, because not many people play it. I still think Fox will just run a bit longer in a 1v1 in 40 PvP and the outcome will be the same. You also lose 6 points that could be used elsewhere. Halving Bandage regeneration only hurts 100 Honor Fox imo. Where you have 10 Points in Bandage anyway. I will trust your judgement on this for now tho.

    The Tinsel/Gleam argument is dirty. That was so obviously a Bug lol.

    I will try to keep all instances of PvP in mind when asking for changes. Tyvm

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    Endgame fox is a vert touchy subject. In terms of Honor arena i believe that having to main dex is what's truly holding them back. If foxes had a sword set that has similar statd of that for bear then I'd think the class would be much better. Now i don't believe that the problem with honor fox lies within the gear, it's the class that's at fault. Foxes arw easily stunable in team fights and most of their skills can be healed off. I rather not focus on buffing the defense of the class, considering that it's a assassin, but rather buffing it's offensive abilities.

    I believe that the skill "Fury" should give more than just Hit% stats starting at Level 7, similar to how bears "Iron Blood" received a giant buff towards their overall vitality. Fury could start giving a percentage of Damage and Crit the higher it rises. Ontop of that fury should also last a bit longer. Foxes should have the largest overall damage buff in the game yet it's dwarfed by bears. That shouldn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    Endgame fox is a vert touchy subject. In terms of Honor arena i believe that having to main dex is what's truly holding them back. If foxes had a sword set that has similar statd of that for bear then I'd think the class would be much better. Now i don't believe that the problem with honor fox lies within the gear, it's the class that's at fault. Foxes arw easily stunable in team fights and most of their skills can be healed off. I rather not focus on buffing the defense of the class, considering that it's a assassin, but rather buffing it's offensive abilities.

    I believe that the skill "Fury" should give more than just Hit% stats starting at Level 7, similar to how bears "Iron Blood" received a giant buff towards their overall vitality. Fury could start giving a percentage of Damage and Crit the higher it rises. Ontop of that fury should also last a bit longer. Foxes should have the largest overall damage buff in the game yet it's dwarfed by bears. That shouldn't happen.
    And evasion should last 15s and have a 10s cooldown to help avoid stuns 24/7

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    Quote Originally Posted by holdmytalons View Post
    And evasion should last 15s and have a 10s cooldown to help avoid stuns 24/7
    Even if evasion was made to last as long as rhinos vitality buff it would still not save the class from being attacked from the sides or behind. Those 2 issues is why foxes have never been a top tier class in endgame. Endgame is universally more tanky than that of twink, not always, so once you enter a fight and is stunned, frozen, or rooted then the fight was already lost. More damage on fox would mean less time enabled for the opponent to get there. Twink is a highlight of this because before the fox can get turned around they've already won the fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    Endgame fox is a vert touchy subject. In terms of Honor arena i believe that having to main dex is what's truly holding them back. If foxes had a sword set that has similar statd of that for bear then I'd think the class would be much better. Now i don't believe that the problem with honor fox lies within the gear, it's the class that's at fault. Foxes arw easily stunable in team fights and most of their skills can be healed off. I rather not focus on buffing the defense of the class, considering that it's a assassin, but rather buffing it's offensive abilities.

    I believe that the skill "Fury" should give more than just Hit% stats starting at Level 7, similar to how bears "Iron Blood" received a giant buff towards their overall vitality. Fury could start giving a percentage of Damage and Crit the higher it rises. Ontop of that fury should also last a bit longer. Foxes should have the largest overall damage buff in the game yet it's dwarfed by bears. That shouldn't happen.
    Fox is an assassin and I take it as by definition of assassin needing a dex set. The class is relatively fine, people just don't put in the time to learn it.

    The bandage suggestion is a good one, I think lowering the cooldown even just 10 seconds would be a nice "quality of life" change (good wording on the original post's part). I would strongly advise against having fox be mainly a str-using class, it is an assassin at heart imo.

    On the point of evasion needing to last longer. I think increasing the duration of evasion while also marginally increasing the cooldown would be a good way forward. I would much prefer to have more armor and dodge for longer as opposed to:

    lowering the duration / cooldown and being able to unstun constantly but having less armor or dodge overall because of the lower duration. The prior is nicer to me. Just my thoughts.
    Last edited by Congeniality; 04-26-2020 at 04:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Congeniality View Post
    Fox is an assassin and I take it as by definition of assassin needing a dex set. The class is relatively fine, people just don't put in the time to learn it.

    The bandage suggestion is a good one, I think lowering the cooldown even just 10 seconds would be a nice "quality of life" change (good wording on the original post's part). I would strongly advise against having fox be mainly a str-using class, it is an assassin at heart imo.

    On the point of evasion needing to last longer. I think increasing the duration of evasion while also marginally increasing the cooldown would be a good way forward. I would much prefer to have more armor and dodge for longer as opposed to:

    lowering the duration / cooldown and being able to unstun constantly but having less armor or dodge overall because of the lower duration. The prior is nicer to me. Just my thoughts.
    How's the overall damage of the class? I've seen your videos on it and so far it seems like damage is a one true issue. You could be directly on top of a enemy and they will still come out victorious in some instances. I did not mean that foxes should have their attributes be formly changed towards STR, but instead to have a better means for balance similar to how birds will do better off with a longsword/hammer instead of a talon in twink.

    Buffing the dagger really wouldn't keep through to what a dagger is. Neither will buffing the defensive capabilities of Fox will make it a true assassin, but to add more damage towards the class could be a expection as long as it's balanced correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    How's the overall damage of the class? I've seen your videos on it and so far it seems like damage is a one true issue. You could be directly on top of a enemy and they will still come out victorious in some instances. I did not mean that foxes should have their attributes be formly changed towards STR, but instead to have a better means for balance similar to how birds will do better off with a longsword/hammer instead of a talon in twink.

    Buffing the dagger really wouldn't keep through to what a dagger is. Neither will buffing the defensive capabilities of Fox will make it a true assassin, but to add more damage towards the class could be a expection as long as it's balanced correctly.
    The damage is incredibly front-loaded. By that I mean that at the beginning of the fight, my chance to win is dependent on if I can burst the opponent down in under 2-3 seconds. If the fight last longer than that, I typically lose, any shorter, and I have a good chance of winning. I of course speak for endgame because I haven't played enough fox twink (not enough below 66) to make a fair assessment.

    I myself enjoy this because it gives me a clear goal (kill my opponent in under 3 seconds), I can formulate ways I can try to make it happen (combos x,y or z), and if I don't succeed I am punished for it (I lose). That's how I think about endgame fox, and think that this bandage suggestion gets at a small quality of life issue fox has had for a long time without altering it's relative strength in PvP.

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    I agree with Walie's eloquently formulated assessment of Fox as an assassin. And I want to build on that.

    In the high-dmg Mythic endgame PvP and Twink Levels 22-40 (and I'd imagine QTR realms of twink PvP), Fox is doing well because she can kill within 2 seconds. With the recent addition of OPS she can compete in endgame.

    Fox, as an assassin, always has a chance to strive in extremely high-dmg PvP environment. You want to look for an opening to engage and kill your opponent within 1-2 seconds.

    Fox, as a bruiser, was played during 105 cap. It struggled because of the extremely high Bandage CD. Fights often lasted longer than 20 seconds and by that time every class except Fox would have their heal up for the 2nd time.
    Another thing Fox struggled with was the 15s unstun of Evasion. (wildly problematic in coordinated teamfights)
    It was often smarter to save Evasion for an inevitable stun and have another chance to rejoin the fight. Which is quite sad, because you essentially engaged on a fight without a vital buff.

    Suggestions as how to make Fox viable: Evasion CD reduced to 11s. 10s uptime, 1s downtime.
    Alternatively unstun moved to Fox Howl and CD increased from 5.5s to 8s.
    Rage Tonic CD reduced to 22-23s. 20s uptime, 2-3s downtime.
    Comparing this to Bird. Bird Evasion has 20s uptime, 22s CD, 2s downtime.
    Focus has 20s uptime, 21s CD, 1s downtime. (skills on Lvl 10)
    Avian Scream (unstun starting lvl 5?) 8s CD.
    The cooldowns would scale down with levels starting at lvl 6 as it is done with Fury, Focus and Bird's Evasion.
    This still leaves a 11s windown to punish Fox, while giving some mobility and flexibility regarding combat readiness.

    Fox has this all-or-nothing playstyle, which lets her thrive in high-dmg-quick-kill type of PvP. With few cooldown changes the class could be more flexible in different PvP environments. For Fox to become universally viable it would need an AOE skill combo.
    Last edited by Tpfelblatt; 04-26-2020 at 09:44 PM.

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    Forgetting they wont do this kuz its "too much work" rip

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    Default Quality of Life buff for Fox

    What if there were new arcane weapons that change the way ability works like a arcane tier dagger that made his dodge ability cause him to go invisible , increase movement speed on hit and cause bleed damage also removing and making him immune to roots/daze/stuns. Doing this time he takes no damage his invisibility will end when he attack or if he takes damage after like 3-5 sec (kinda like the shield buff of 105 elite talon accept he goes invisible and canít be targeted ) and since like ever class have some kinda of self heal all his posion attacks reduce healing that way he can gank people or Poke them to death. Invisibility would allow him to be able to escape or sneak up on someone.

    and bleed damage bypass armor and remove x amount of the target current health in ticks


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    Last edited by Hjable; 04-26-2020 at 09:48 PM.

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