DL guilds! Fixes! Needed!

[Cinco]

Thank you for putting so much effort into this request. The Mega-Guilds of Dark Legends are a very special and powerful phenomenon!

As you know, we designed our Guild system to provide access to all members even if they are offline and even if they have not logged in for centuries. This means that we must load all relevant player data so that Guild functions can be applied to any member. For mega-Guilds this necessity adds significant loading time... and while there are probably a few optimizations that we could apply, there is really no way to avoid it.

With this in mind, I would encourage the leaders of large Guilds to spend the time to selectively and compassionately remove inactive members. If we were to create an automated system for this we would need to create simple criteria (such as hasn't logged in for X days, etc.) that could possibly cause many more problems than it solves. Alternatively, a system that was complex enough to intelligently cull membership based on custom criteria would take a very long time to develop - to such an extent as to make it technically infeasible.

I do like the idea of creating a Guild advancement and awarding increased membership limits as they level-up. There are some big hurdles for this. First, we would need to retroactively apply the membership limits to existing Guilds. This could be extremely disruptive (even moreso than the simplistic culling example I mentioned above). For things to be truly fair all Guilds would need to start at Level 1 which would mean the lowest membership cap - so EOE15, DP, DX all become 30 members, disbanding somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 members.

Guild Events in the past have shed some light on how players will react when there are prizes at stake. I believe that these behaviors should be factored in to any design for Guild Advancement. Primarily, the players' ability to instantly switch from Guild A to Guild B without penalty introduces some very challenging obstacles. Guild A may be 1,000 Vampires strong but Guild B is one guy willing to paying millions in gold to mercenary / temporary members. So he poaches members from Guild A 'til Guild B reaches Level 20... then they can go back to Guild A. Unless we have some sort of a 'loyalty period' wherein members are unable to leave their Guild, we will have mercenary memberships and a potential social crisis on our hands.

It goes the other way too, in my above example if Guild B promises payment and poaches a bunch of dudes - then they reach the objective, Guild B master collects the rewards and kicks all of the mercenaries... we have another problem. We would need an intelligent system that prevents officers from kicking players in certain situations - and that could be prohibitively complex.

Obviously, questions of how the Guild Advancement interfaces with leaders who go inactive, quit or get banned also rise - but these are less important in light of the general problems created by the 'ad hoc joining' system we have right now.

I would be very interested to know your thoughts on how we might secure Guild membership to prevent the kind of "professional Guild booster" or the "robber baron Guild master" stuff I'm talking about. Or if maybe you think that I'm off-base and that previous Guild Events are not a good basis for my opinion :-)

[namca]

Thank you for putting so much effort into this request. The Mega-Guilds of Dark Legends are a very special and powerful phenomenon!

As you know, we designed our Guild system to provide access to all members even if they are offline and even if they have not logged in for centuries. This means that we must load all relevant player data so that Guild functions can be applied to any member. For mega-Guilds this necessity adds significant loading time... and while there are probably a few optimizations that we could apply, there is really no way to avoid it.

With this in mind, I would encourage the leaders of large Guilds to spend the time to selectively and compassionately remove inactive members. If we were to create an automated system for this we would need to create simple criteria (such as hasn't logged in for X days, etc.) that could possibly cause many more problems than it solves. Alternatively, a system that was complex enough to intelligently cull membership based on custom criteria would take a very long time to develop - to such an extent as to make it technically infeasible.

I do like the idea of creating a Guild advancement and awarding increased membership limits as they level-up. There are some big hurdles for this. First, we would need to retroactively apply the membership limits to existing Guilds. This could be extremely disruptive (even moreso than the simplistic culling example I mentioned above). For things to be truly fair all Guilds would need to start at Level 1 which would mean the lowest membership cap - so EOE15, DP, DX all become 30 members, disbanding somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 members.

Guild Events in the past have shed some light on how players will react when there are prizes at stake. I believe that these behaviors should be factored in to any design for Guild Advancement. Primarily, the players' ability to instantly switch from Guild A to Guild B without penalty introduces some very challenging obstacles. Guild A may be 1,000 Vampires strong but Guild B is one guy willing to paying millions in gold to mercenary / temporary members. So he poaches members from Guild A 'til Guild B reaches Level 20... then they can go back to Guild A. Unless we have some sort of a 'loyalty period' wherein members are unable to leave their Guild, we will have mercenary memberships and a potential social crisis on our hands.

It goes the other way too, in my above example if Guild B promises payment and poaches a bunch of dudes - then they reach the objective, Guild B master collects the rewards and kicks all of the mercenaries... we have another problem. We would need an intelligent system that prevents officers from kicking players in certain situations - and that could be prohibitively complex.

Obviously, questions of how the Guild Advancement interfaces with leaders who go inactive, quit or get banned also rise - but these are less important in light of the general problems created by the 'ad hoc joining' system we have right now.

I would be very interested to know your thoughts on how we might secure Guild membership to prevent the kind of "professional Guild booster" or the "robber baron Guild master" stuff I'm talking about. Or if maybe you think that I'm off-base and that previous Guild Events are not a good basis for my opinion :-)

guild events in dl end to be " efficient " ways to cheat to win sadly ...nd if u dig in real bout members ull c that at base dl is lets say 1000 vamps nd each has 1000 alts using for any reason..
the only I can quick think U as admins can do is put a top number of members each guild can be allowed to have ..that way maybe effort might be shared..
also can be kinda a clock that will count activity of each ..vamps who not log in for centuries to be auto removed by guilds ..
The rest u describe have more to do with each of us attitude meaning were the ones that we try play the game nd some others who re trying beat the game any way they can ..

[Fireouss]

guild events in dl end to be " efficient " ways to cheat to win sadly ...nd if u dig in real bout members ull c that at base dl is lets say 1000 vamps nd each has 1000 alts using for any reason..
the only I can quick think U as admins can do is put a top number of members each guild can be allowed to have ..that way maybe effort might be shared..
also can be kinda a clock that will count activity of each ..vamps who not log in for centuries to be auto removed by guilds ..
The rest u describe have more to do with each of us attitude meaning were the ones that we try play the game nd some others who re trying beat the game any way they can ..

To make the game more fun I think there should be weekly events where the drop rates go higher by 50 percent and mabey more quests doing acts of kindnesses to help get rid of the toxic ppl in dl the reward for the quests can be 5 plat of your lucky and a rare could be a broken red heart pet and a comon could be a boost of your choice

[Deusagor]

To make the game more fun I think there should be weekly events where the drop rates go higher by 50 percent and mabey more quests doing acts of kindnesses to help get rid of the toxic ppl in dl the reward for the quests can be 5 plat of your lucky and a rare could be a broken red heart pet and a comon could be a boost of your choice

Fireouss thats a lovely idea but right now we are discussing about Guilds so if u could kindly stick to this topic that be nice

[namca]

To make the game more fun I think there should be weekly events where the drop rates go higher by 50 percent and mabey more quests doing acts of kindnesses to help get rid of the toxic ppl in dl the reward for the quests can be 5 plat of your lucky and a rare could be a broken red heart pet and a comon could be a boost of your choice

u can share ur thoughts in my thread where I talk bout toxicity nd proposes idea of gold event as way make vamps happy mate deusagor talks bout guilds nd ways make dl better by making some changes
ur ideas re lovely but if u want my opinion not suit much to the profile of dark legends as it is a vampires game nd we kinda need to stick to flaws nd feelings nd attitudes of our breed ..
thirsty for love thirsty for passion nd devilicious kindness if term can be accepted plus as pvper I try think ways full our arenas like they were sm years back ..

[Deusagor]

Thank you for putting so much effort into this request. The Mega-Guilds of Dark Legends are a very special and powerful phenomenon!

As you know, we designed our Guild system to provide access to all members even if they are offline and even if they have not logged in for centuries. This means that we must load all relevant player data so that Guild functions can be applied to any member. For mega-Guilds this necessity adds significant loading time... and while there are probably a few optimizations that we could apply, there is really no way to avoid it.

With this in mind, I would encourage the leaders of large Guilds to spend the time to selectively and compassionately remove inactive members. If we were to create an automated system for this we would need to create simple criteria (such as hasn't logged in for X days, etc.) that could possibly cause many more problems than it solves. Alternatively, a system that was complex enough to intelligently cull membership based on custom criteria would take a very long time to develop - to such an extent as to make it technically infeasible.

I do like the idea of creating a Guild advancement and awarding increased membership limits as they level-up. There are some big hurdles for this. First, we would need to retroactively apply the membership limits to existing Guilds. This could be extremely disruptive (even moreso than the simplistic culling example I mentioned above). For things to be truly fair all Guilds would need to start at Level 1 which would mean the lowest membership cap - so EOE15, DP, DX all become 30 members, disbanding somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 members.

Guild Events in the past have shed some light on how players will react when there are prizes at stake. I believe that these behaviors should be factored in to any design for Guild Advancement. Primarily, the players' ability to instantly switch from Guild A to Guild B without penalty introduces some very challenging obstacles. Guild A may be 1,000 Vampires strong but Guild B is one guy willing to paying millions in gold to mercenary / temporary members. So he poaches members from Guild A 'til Guild B reaches Level 20... then they can go back to Guild A. Unless we have some sort of a 'loyalty period' wherein members are unable to leave their Guild, we will have mercenary memberships and a potential social crisis on our hands.

It goes the other way too, in my above example if Guild B promises payment and poaches a bunch of dudes - then they reach the objective, Guild B master collects the rewards and kicks all of the mercenaries... we have another problem. We would need an intelligent system that prevents officers from kicking players in certain situations - and that could be prohibitively complex.

Obviously, questions of how the Guild Advancement interfaces with leaders who go inactive, quit or get banned also rise - but these are less important in light of the general problems created by the 'ad hoc joining' system we have right now.

I would be very interested to know your thoughts on how we might secure Guild membership to prevent the kind of "professional Guild booster" or the "robber baron Guild master" stuff I'm talking about. Or if maybe you think that I'm off-base and that previous Guild Events are not a good basis for my opinion :-)

Dear Cinco it is really kind of you to reply to this vampire in your community and im extremely glad that u liked my efforts put into this topic and i thought about it for awhile (as i have my own 10 yrs of different game exp that just might do the trick) even tho yes the points u mentioned on "professional Guild booster" or "robber baron Guild master" is quiet troublesome none the less i did find a quiet a few nice ideas for these issues.

Lemme Explain.

(when you accept my proposal this is how it goes)

1)If one person X goes to guild A and he is super active super nice super in lets say most of his fields and then he is shown the sparkles of gold from guild master B as to get him in to help Guild master B to lvl up his guild as to that the moment player X leaves his Guild He would have a 2 days time span to then to enter another guild in this way many people would not be so intrested in leaving there guild just to spend 2 days doing nothing (as you know cinco many peeps in the vampire nation are not so will-fully stable as to wait so long or it would depend on you tbh how long this would last even a week would be good) cause in a way of its own its going to be very different cinco and u cant disagree on this fact.

2) Now about the Guild Leader Robbing and reaping the rewards for his maxed out lvl guild all for himself is quiet tbh extremely pathetic as a guild master (from my own exp) i to was not much intrested in keeping peeps but as my guild grew i had a sudden affection for it. anyway-who

i would propose to the point that these guild Officers and master had a limited amounts of kicks per day that allow them to not kick several people out at once but if u ask me what if toxic players hit in the guild chat than wat would be the case well in my sentiment i would sayyyy just as the "Ignore Button" we would the Gms and the Officers would have the option to mute them. now also to the question that these might be alot of functions well simply put have them in type coding as when a guild leader and officer would type /muteplayer X and /unmuteplayer and so on and plus that would not usualy happen cause officers and guild leaders wont use there kick all the time and if someone keeps inv that player back well thanks to ur update cinco on letting people know who invs who people would be kicked along side with them plus not to forget the 2 days span time limit for them to join another guild and leaving one guild to another would be there prob not urs and nither would it be ours.

this also will stop people from guild hopping

this isnt a easy task yes i defi agree with u cinco but its fruits after completion would defi not be bad put would be amazing since 2012 guilds have been the same and except of leaders hitting the same event over and over and over and over again what else has changed plus having to go under the radar on some guilds like EOE whats the point of it all it all leads to one fact -----> the same old boring thing believe me the only thing that excites a leader is the numbers inc but if u change that all leaders would need to make strategic plannings every day on how to keep there guild on number one without falling behind just as how u changed the game cinco having another change to a specific point would push in a huge bonus point for everyone to enjoy not just the guild leaders and the officers

lets be real with ourselfs members only stick around to leech from events and only few people stay loyal. the only pleasure of a guild is given to the leader whos watching the numbers grow and officers who watch the Remove button with great sense of honor lol
and as just as i said if u turn the tables guild leaders will have to stay more vigilant than ever before and strategic planning will toll over them then there would be a sense of gameplay and not just gossip 24/7.

oh and yes about everyone starting back from lvl 1 is exactly what is needed a fair and just system and not a crooked system because (i havent been to AL or anything) but DL is the only game ive seen with a guild of 15k members 0-0 as well as the idea of yours on an auto kick system of people begin kicked after a certain amount of days aint bad to it on itself as well anyways.

also adding in this fact in order to save people and save ones selfs from the angry community i suggest that when guilds are refreshed only the GUILD MASTER would be in his own guild and no one else in that way we can avoid people from loosing there guild halls cause not everyone in DL is PLAT rich i would give that in as my opinion but thats on u cinco.


but for now ill wait for your reply to this msg cinco to see what u think about the few ideas i have just imposed as into tackling these diffculties

Thank you....

[Ouefa]

Hey Cinco
While some valid points are being raised. I think you have to remember not to forget the little guys. The smaller guilds that are that way by choice. Also those who do proactively monitor their membership. The trouble is some changes sometimes come about because of who shouts the loudest and that doesn’t always make it the way to go.
Applying anything retrospectively is a horrible idea and would cause major chaos and upset to many.For me you can’t go back only forward but you can learn from the past.
From starting in the game I have been in different guilds and I am now master of a small guild. We are that way by choice. I have seen how different guilds work and there are many different ways of working within each.
How many people in guilds should be up to the guild master of the guild and not based on arbitrary levels of increase.
All guilds are not created equal when it comes to size and that is the great thing about it. People are free to choose a small guild or larger guild as they wish.
Basing rewards around sizes of guilds levelling up creates way to much inequity and penalises smaller guilds. It also leads to poaching players just to level and encourages even more horrible behaviour than there is already. Also players should not be disadvantaged for wishing to be in smaller guilds.
Guild masters and officers need to look at their own guilds and work with their members. Looking at inactive players etc.
What people do need to remember is players can be inactive for a while due to personal circumstances in real but this may not necessarily mean they won’t be back. Look at all the issues caused by COVID 19. So it seems unreasonable to remove people just because they haven’t played for a while.
The euphamistic “refreshing” of guilds and applying things retrospectively would be a slap in the face to many players who are where they want to be when it comes to what guild they are in. While I appreciate not everybody thinks as I do
I am mindful of the wonderful choice that already exists with the different guilds that are there. People play there game differently and different people enjoy different aspects of the game and the way they play is varied.
Some like bigger guild some like smaller and that is great. It doesn’t mean one shouldn’t have the same advantages and rewards of the other. I do think however we need to work proactively as guild masters and officers with our guild memberships to ensure that we keep the membership current and to encourage members to cut out the trolling and begging that happens. I am not against change in fact I welcome it but not for the sake of it.there are many ways to achieve the same results without alienating huge amounts of players in the process. Thanks for listening

[Deusagor]

Thank you for putting so much effort into this request. The Mega-Guilds of Dark Legends are a very special and powerful phenomenon!

As you know, we designed our Guild system to provide access to all members even if they are offline and even if they have not logged in for centuries. This means that we must load all relevant player data so that Guild functions can be applied to any member. For mega-Guilds this necessity adds significant loading time... and while there are probably a few optimizations that we could apply, there is really no way to avoid it.

With this in mind, I would encourage the leaders of large Guilds to spend the time to selectively and compassionately remove inactive members. If we were to create an automated system for this we would need to create simple criteria (such as hasn't logged in for X days, etc.) that could possibly cause many more problems than it solves. Alternatively, a system that was complex enough to intelligently cull membership based on custom criteria would take a very long time to develop - to such an extent as to make it technically infeasible.

I do like the idea of creating a Guild advancement and awarding increased membership limits as they level-up. There are some big hurdles for this. First, we would need to retroactively apply the membership limits to existing Guilds. This could be extremely disruptive (even moreso than the simplistic culling example I mentioned above). For things to be truly fair all Guilds would need to start at Level 1 which would mean the lowest membership cap - so EOE15, DP, DX all become 30 members, disbanding somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 members.

Guild Events in the past have shed some light on how players will react when there are prizes at stake. I believe that these behaviors should be factored in to any design for Guild Advancement. Primarily, the players' ability to instantly switch from Guild A to Guild B without penalty introduces some very challenging obstacles. Guild A may be 1,000 Vampires strong but Guild B is one guy willing to paying millions in gold to mercenary / temporary members. So he poaches members from Guild A 'til Guild B reaches Level 20... then they can go back to Guild A. Unless we have some sort of a 'loyalty period' wherein members are unable to leave their Guild, we will have mercenary memberships and a potential social crisis on our hands.

It goes the other way too, in my above example if Guild B promises payment and poaches a bunch of dudes - then they reach the objective, Guild B master collects the rewards and kicks all of the mercenaries... we have another problem. We would need an intelligent system that prevents officers from kicking players in certain situations - and that could be prohibitively complex.

Obviously, questions of how the Guild Advancement interfaces with leaders who go inactive, quit or get banned also rise - but these are less important in light of the general problems created by the 'ad hoc joining' system we have right now.

I would be very interested to know your thoughts on how we might secure Guild membership to prevent the kind of "professional Guild booster" or the "robber baron Guild master" stuff I'm talking about. Or if maybe you think that I'm off-base and that previous Guild Events are not a good basis for my opinion :-)

Heyo cinco i finally thought about the best way to prevent this. in order for you to implement!

create a system in which reaching your Guild to LEVEL 20 would be extremely hard like VERY VERY hard and it wont be a 1 man task and that all 30 (and as the guild keeps growing in level it grows in begin harder and harder) this will cause "professional Guild booster" as you have mentioned to not provide gold like to hit Level 20 it would take a guild 1 year (if its slow) and 6 months to max (if it's fast) because each level would have a perm boost to it so that's a good way to make DL guild's more competitive in every aspect

IF IF we have a "professional Guild booster" as u mentioned who makes his guild level 20 and then kicks all members out you can have the following method cause it will take no less than a min

1) A player will report this kick from guild by the "professional Guild booster" which is unfair and most likely his guild would be empty with only him and u can simply disband the guild (this will prevent him from scamming further on and he will loose millions due to his foolishness but i doubt it would work because no ones gonna pay for 1 year to 30 members+ for a boost and then he looses it all due to his foolishness)

if just in case u have a member who trolls and says that he was kicked due to a master or officer your team can monitor it and incase nothing seems of sorts weird to you you can assign a warning point to that player this may prevent trolls

2) having this guild caps and levels will trigger proper events and what so ever not and build an idea of complete understanding of how a guild SHOULD actually work and not base them only on numbers as well as build competitiveness among player's and having more options added to the guild would make it more fun.

having a Guild leaderboard for the guild with most Kills is a good way to keep player's active.