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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    If "PL 2" is classic PL, 2010-2011, then bring it on.
    Old school pl would be nice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

    How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”
    No single Mobile game under daylight is subscription based whereas every free to play competitive game is going into the path of season pass system.

    About MMORPG or PL2 I think there should be some new trends it's been hard now a days to create any hype with traditional MMO, take Genshin impact which took gaming by storm not just mobile, which isn't mmo although feels like mmo but that provide huge chance for game developers who would make a mmo with the goodness of GI and blend that into mmo, I'd love that, imagine a pvp system with genshin like character switch and blend of their skills and essence leads to versatility and scope of various builds discovers by players, even if not still, some survival and crafting aspect bit like ARK survival or some intuitive battle royale blend in mmo can still be pretty attractive for mobile gaming.

  3.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    No single Mobile game under daylight is subscription based whereas every free to play competitive game is going into the path of season pass system.

    About MMORPG or PL2 I think there should be some new trends it's been hard now a days to create any hype with traditional MMO, take Genshin impact which took gaming by storm not just mobile, which isn't mmo although feels like mmo but that provide huge chance for game developers who would make a mmo with the goodness of GI and blend that into mmo, I'd love that, imagine a pvp system with genshin like character switch and blend of their skills and essence leads to versatility and scope of various builds discovers by players, even if not still, some survival and crafting aspect bit like ARK survival or some intuitive battle royale blend in mmo can still be pretty attractive for mobile gaming.
    If PL were a competitive game it would certainly be wise to employ a season pass, but itís never been anything like that. Since the game is a PvE game the prevailing wisdom is to stay F2P but with micro trans (methods that have evolved over the last ten years; not the stuff we used back in the days when we were among the very first Ďfreeí titles). In fact Iím starting to favor a hybrid approach - what I call an ďEvent PassĒ system that takes the things that work for Fortnite and applies them to our style of MMO. Purpose of this is to make a profitable business that still offers a consistent platform for committed non-payers.


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    What I'm talking, is the season pass from fornite and which was adopted by massive amount of games after that and which is not limited to EXACT competitive games but similar games and my term of competitive game is little bit different, in a MMO you compete with other players even in pve to look better to get new gear faster and so on. Again it's just an Extension of the monetization system, micro transactions isn't prohibited in fact i know games having Season pass + micro transactions and obviously which is hugely accepted by mobile community, pc community is different of course they hate micro transactions so subscription model for an interesting gaming title is easily a good thing for pc but not for mobile at least not yet.

    So basically I didn't oppose the "hybrid system"
    Last edited by Waug; 10-20-2020 at 09:33 AM.

  5.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    What I'm talking, is the season pass from fornite and which was adopted by massive amount of games after that and which is not limited to EXACT competitive games but similar games and my term of competitive game is little bit different, in a MMO you compete with other players even in pve as well again it's just an Extension of the monetization system, micro transactions isn't prohibited in fact i know games having Season pass + micro transactions and obviously which is hugely accepted by mobile community, pc community is different of course they hate micro transactions so subscription model for an interesting gaming title is easily a good thing for pc but not for mobile at least not yet.

    So basically I didn't oppose the "hybrid system"
    I realize this. We're not in disagreement. Here's a bit more of what I'm thinking: when 'seasons' exist you have the basis for a 'season pass' monetization structure. Competitive games' primary structure comes from player rankings over time, which makes 'seasons' relatively easy to apply. For cooperative games, on the other hand, I assert that the structure needs to be applied via 'seasonal' content that Designers create. For example, having a 90-day 'Event Season' that encompasses New Year's, Valentine's Day, and Spring Break PVE events and a variety of PVP leaderboards that conclude and offer exclusive rewards at the end of each period.

    For PL2 I'm envisioning a large swath of free content that is always available and a regular cadence of event content to drive 'PVE' monetization via micro-transactions. The fundamental PVP needs to be an 'economic safe space,' where game mechanics and player skill are paramount, and where a 'seasonal' Ranked leaderboard system offers unique vanity rewards (titles, banners, name colors, badges). No-fault PVP and 'P2W' PVP could also exist here but they shouldn't offer any sort of reward - though it seems like 'enchantment' based PVP is the correct space for wagering ;-)
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    You'll want to keep loot boxes too for PL2. It's a popular feature in most games nowadays and it makes sense to have one. There's always going to be this one guy who buys like 20000 of them for a you tube video 'unboxing challenge'. Or just want that item badly. Will make a good amount of money too.
    Exclusive rare non-tradeable vanities in those boxes. Could always put them in the end of the paid season pass as well. I know a lot of people who would buy the first season pass to get their hands on exclusive discontinued vanities.
    But what I would watch out for is locking pvp advantages behind the boxes/pass. What I mean by this is there should be no pvp item that free to play players cannot get unless said pvp item offers no advantage over the rest.

    Will type more later when I got time.

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    Season pass can be continuous and separate and free from holiday events and scope is enormous for co-op games as well, People do compete all the time that's the nature and that's enjoyable, season rank rewards & leaderboard for kills in pve, for collecting something, for time duration dungeons are completed etc etc as that can be as engaging as getting ranked in competitive games.

    Well PL 2 is confirmed, happy and exciting hopefully it turns out to be good. One thing I'll say here about pvp, it's better to refrain from making pvp p2w in any circumstances and area, direct p2w pvp never works only some successful co-op pvp is there by that I mean, where a guild is fighting with others but lets take one individual and he would get rekt by opponent whale, yeah those games are there but much different, back to topic it's always been hated and you can't make em player understand that it's for certain area and non p2w pvp exist in other area, they will still hate it and post negative feedback in the stores as well and will cause bad reputation for the game. Successful and mass pvp zonre is in free to win zones you know it well sir.
    Last edited by Waug; 10-20-2020 at 10:33 AM.

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    Waug is correct. Fortnite doesnt give u any advantages over others for spending money except for cosmetics.

    But also pvp can still bring in money. Why? Because people farm dungeons to get the gear. Introducing luck elixirs for platinum as well as platinum crafting of sets is the way to go. Just like how pokcet legends did it from sewers cap to blacksmoke mountains.

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    Indeed. Trade is among Pocket Legends' most critical features.

    With that in mind, it's important (for a Game Designer of an MMO) to consider that while PVP is symmetrical balance, PVE is asymmetrical. This means that monsters need to be fortified to the extent that parties of well-geared adventurers must employ strategy to win. Numerically speaking, this makes looted 'PVE' gear incompatible with PVP as higher level content is introduced - since that higher level content must take player parties into account. On this subject I have some new ideas that I'm very excited about... but they've never been tried... so we'll see if they turn out to be a boom or a bust ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapourised View Post
    You'll want to keep loot boxes too for PL2. It's a popular feature in most games nowadays and it makes sense to have one. There's always going to be this one guy who buys like 20000 of them for a you tube video 'unboxing challenge'. Or just want that item badly. Will make a good amount of money too.
    Exclusive rare non-tradeable vanities in those boxes. Could always put them in the end of the paid season pass as well. I know a lot of people who would buy the first season pass to get their hands on exclusive discontinued vanities.
    But what I would watch out for is locking pvp advantages behind the boxes/pass. What I mean by this is there should be no pvp item that free to play players cannot get unless said pvp item offers no advantage over the rest.

    Will type more later when I got time.
    No take loot boxes and throw em in the trash

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    One thing I will say for PL2.

    I think it would be a good idea if the graphics are not overdone. AL graphics seems perfectly fine. No need to make it better than that and increase development costs imo.

    Why do I say this?

    Most of the biggest hyped MMOs in history got ruined this way. They thought their plays wanted super duper fancy graphics so invested too much resources into it.
    This had 2 consequences:

    1) Good state of the art graphics are expensive. The heavy costs of development now need to be repaid by players needing to spend huge amounts. Often the developers had no choice but to introduce massive pay to win/play features and force loot boxes in ur face (more often than not these have really low chance of desirable items). Then of course players quit.

    People want good solid gameplay even if that means not top notch graphics. We can settle for 'decent'.

    2) Not much resources left to polish up other aspects of the game like story, gameplay etc.

    Just thought I would quickly add this. This is just what I've seen. Take it with a grain of salt perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    I realize this. We're not in disagreement. Here's a bit more of what I'm thinking: when 'seasons' exist you have the basis for a 'season pass' monetization structure. Competitive games' primary structure comes from player rankings over time, which makes 'seasons' relatively easy to apply. For cooperative games, on the other hand, I assert that the structure needs to be applied via 'seasonal' content that Designers create. For example, having a 90-day 'Event Season' that encompasses New Year's, Valentine's Day, and Spring Break PVE events and a variety of PVP leaderboards that conclude and offer exclusive rewards at the end of each period.

    For PL2 I'm envisioning a large swath of free content that is always available and a regular cadence of event content to drive 'PVE' monetization via micro-transactions. The fundamental PVP needs to be an 'economic safe space,' where game mechanics and player skill are paramount, and where a 'seasonal' Ranked leaderboard system offers unique vanity rewards (titles, banners, name colors, badges). No-fault PVP and 'P2W' PVP could also exist here but they shouldn't offer any sort of reward - though it seems like 'enchantment' based PVP is the correct space for wagering ;-)
    Issue with enchantment based PvP is the complete bias nature of it. Of all the current enchantments obtainable only 4 is actually viable. Of the 4 only 3 can be used in PvP. Those 3 not only change every single aspect of PvP by ruining the stats and balances that existed prior but it also only favors certain classes while leaving others out.

    I'm not saying you should rid damage, health, and armor modifications from enchants, but they should be rid of in PvP lobbies. In replacement we could instead introduce things such as regeneration enchantments or passive effects. A enchantment that has a slight chance to deal burn effect for example. Nothing OP but actually desirable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapourised View Post
    One thing I will say for PL2.

    I think it would be a good idea if the graphics are not overdone. AL graphics seems perfectly fine. No need to make it better than that and increase development costs imo.

    Why do I say this?

    Most of the biggest hyped MMOs in history got ruined this way. They thought their plays wanted super duper fancy graphics so invested too much resources into it.
    This had 2 consequences:

    1) Good state of the art graphics are expensive. The heavy costs of development now need to be repaid by players needing to spend huge amounts. Often the developers had no choice but to introduce massive pay to win/play features and force loot boxes in ur face (more often than not these have really low chance of desirable items). Then of course players quit.

    People want good solid gameplay even if that means not top notch graphics. We can settle for 'decent'.

    2) Not much resources left to polish up other aspects of the game like story, gameplay etc.

    Just thought I would quickly add this. This is just what I've seen. Take it with a grain of salt perhaps.
    I concur. Please take this in the humorous spirit it is intended: the graphics need to be basic enough that 're-coloring' is a thing :-)
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    This new game needs touch-targeting like PL. The system in AL is simply not as good for a multitude of reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Indeed. Trade is among Pocket Legends' most critical features.

    With that in mind, it's important (for a Game Designer of an MMO) to consider that while PVP is symmetrical balance, PVE is asymmetrical. This means that monsters need to be fortified to the extent that parties of well-geared adventurers must employ strategy to win. Numerically speaking, this makes looted 'PVE' gear incompatible with PVP as higher level content is introduced - since that higher level content must take player parties into account. On this subject I have some new ideas that I'm very excited about... but they've never been tried... so we'll see if they turn out to be a boom or a bust ;-)
    So just split the economy ... two markets?

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    Default Enchants

    I would rather have subscription to be honest but I already have subscription in other games. But Iíll like pocket legend 2 to be open world and we can gank people doing quests and have a lot of more class like from other sts games. And tons of great items being added. And option to control whatís allowed in private pvp may hire.

    I want to see at least one steath class or a item that lets us steath. Also would love to see a necromancy class that summon dead and spirt to fight more then one minion unless itís really strong. Some minion slow opponents some do mass damage.

    Also hunters need a pet wolf or something.

    Wanna be able to have skills we can level up like mining etc. skills that we can use to make powerful stuff like battle mounts and top of the line gear.

    I want us to have a potion maker skills but better. Instead of exlir that kill ever thing same we can farm mats and make weapon coating that poison or add silver that kills vampires faster. No 2x damage vs all monsters. Each monster got there own weakness like tree monster I use fire gasoline potions and make fire arrows or sword. That would be cool could even make our armor have same weakness

    Keep the targeting system donít care much for game that donít let u target cause it limit the kinda battles we can have. I want ever class to have a usefulness in pve (high magic damage/or aoe damage, I single target physical damage/aoe , tanks/off tank some time more then one threat, differnt kinda healers-got great group healers or single target healers /team buff and want to have the class preotect from damage shield for heavy aoe raid , also dot healers who special is healing over time by doing damage or like rhino.

    Ton of items that have effects for pve and doesnít get out dated on ever new level cap. So we can customize our hero even more.
    Actually just end out dated gear just make new stuff that have procs better for zone.

    Mounts- we need them


    But I do not like class to be nerf instead just gear made to counter what make them op. It sucks when you make a op class and by the time u cap it sucks!!!!

    Pocket legend to subscription!!!! Letís go
    But Iíll like to still see non member able to play but they just donít get access to all the content and or not able to equip everthing. Kinda like they can only progress so far

    Also introduce skill tree so or char can be good at something like say single target tanking /muti target tanking or damage

    No fix camera or paying to reroll skills just put a vendor far out the way that people have to travel to. And to go to a dungon we have to actually have to travel to it. But can be quick summon to event zones.

    And all monsters have a chance of dropping a unique super rare powerful item.

    And add some kinda element damage so some gear good vs certain monsters.

    Can we just go big and delete the whole leveling theme. Instead we farm items or quest for rare powerful items and rather we take the questing path or killing mobs we can always get good stuff for raids.

    Also I think there should be a special mode for skillers. Those that wanna max all skills they got there on mode and some super end game perks once they cap. So they like have to max there skills with out being able to buy from the store but once they cap all there skill they get a powerful bonus to there stats. These are pve mode only char or at least there perks donít work in pvp.Any time they can turn there account back to normally but not normal to elite skilled. They also get differnt gear and from quests. And a achievement when they max. Once they max they can turn there account to normal but lose the damage perks but retain the title and achievement but gain the ability to trade again.

    Graphic isnít important to me as long as it doesnít look like Atari game. Nintendo or higher graphic is fine. Only thing I want is Ton of good items to chase down in dungon ,raids, or just regular monsters. Also I want some kinda armory that list all items there effects and were they drop.

    And can we get a bounty hunter that send you on quest to kill differnt monsters that give more experience or increase the drop chance of that items your looking for. And can ever monster have boss version

    Oh and can u also add the option for plat player to buy tradable membership passes we can sell in c.s. So if Iím running short on gold we can sell them or maybe we wanna gift a friend a membership
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    Last edited by Hjable; 10-21-2020 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjable View Post
    I would rather have subscription to be honest but I already have subscription in other games. But Iíll like pocket legend 2 to be open world and we can gank people doing quests and have a lot of more class like from other sts games. And tons of great items being added. And option to control whatís allowed in private pvp may hire.

    I want to see at least one steath class or a item that lets us steath. Also would love to see a necromancy class that summon dead and spirt to fight more then one minion unless itís really strong. Some minion slow opponents some do mass damage.

    Also hunters need a pet wolf or something.

    Wanna be able to have skills we can level up like mining etc. skills that we can use to make powerful stuff like battle mounts and top of the line gear.

    I want us to have a potion maker skills

    Keep the targeting system donít care much for game that donít let u target cause it limit the kinda battles we can have. I want ever class to have a usefulness in pve (high magic damage/or aoe damage, I single target physical damage/aoe , tanks/off tank some time more then one threat, differnt kinda healers-got great group healers or single target healers /team buff and want to have the class preotect from damage shield for heavy aoe raid , also dot healers who special is healing over time by doing damage or like rhino.

    Ton of items that have effects for pve and doesnít get out dated on ever new level cap. So we can customize our hero even more.
    Actually just end out dated gear just make new stuff that have procs better for zone.

    Mounts- we need them


    But I do not like class to be nerf instead just gear made to counter what make them op. It sucks when you make a op class and by the time u cap it sucks!!!!

    Pocket legend to subscription!!!! Letís go
    But Iíll like to still see non member able to play but they just donít get access to all the content and or not able to equip everthing. Kinda like they can only progress so far

    Also introduce skill tree so or char can be good at something like say single target tanking /muti target tanking or damage


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I just wanna see em actually fix their games y would i pay a subscription when they cant even fix their game just throw out events instead of taking the time to actually do the work

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    The only non enchantment pvp in pl honors is still ruined where the majority of pvp players are trying to play with 100 honors and are getting grieved by players coming in with 105 elite sets to ruin the fun.

    I donít think anyone using elite set would ever want
    to 2v2 or 3v3 with it and are just using it for the sole purpose of ruining honor games for people using
    100 sets.

    Yes itís all honors, but why canít each set have itís own arena so people canít exploit 105 elite sets vs 100 sets and canít exploit the lower sets 15/30 to get more str/dex/int since these slower sets almost have identical stats to 100.
    Last edited by Cqrd; 10-21-2020 at 09:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjable View Post
    I would rather have subscription to be honest but I already have subscription in other games. But I’ll like pocket legend 2 to be open world and we can gank people doing quests and have a lot of more class like from other sts games. And tons of great items being added. And option to control what’s allowed in private pvp may hire.

    I want to see at least one steath class or a item that lets us steath. Also would love to see a necromancy class that summon dead and spirt to fight more then one minion unless it’s really strong. Some minion slow opponents some do mass damage.

    Also hunters need a pet wolf or something.

    Wanna be able to have skills we can level up like mining etc. skills that we can use to make powerful stuff like battle mounts and top of the line gear.

    I want us to have a potion maker skills but better. Instead of exlir that kill ever thing same we can farm mats and make weapon coating that poison or add silver that kills vampires faster. No 2x damage vs all monsters. Each monster got there own weakness like tree monster I use fire gasoline potions and make fire arrows or sword. That would be cool could even make our armor have same weakness

    Keep the targeting system don’t care much for game that don’t let u target cause it limit the kinda battles we can have. I want ever class to have a usefulness in pve (high magic damage/or aoe damage, I single target physical damage/aoe , tanks/off tank some time more then one threat, differnt kinda healers-got great group healers or single target healers /team buff and want to have the class preotect from damage shield for heavy aoe raid , also dot healers who special is healing over time by doing damage or like rhino.

    Ton of items that have effects for pve and doesn’t get out dated on ever new level cap. So we can customize our hero even more.
    Actually just end out dated gear just make new stuff that have procs better for zone.

    Mounts- we need them


    But I do not like class to be nerf instead just gear made to counter what make them op. It sucks when you make a op class and by the time u cap it sucks!!!!

    Pocket legend to subscription!!!! Let’s go
    But I’ll like to still see non member able to play but they just don’t get access to all the content and or not able to equip everthing. Kinda like they can only progress so far

    Also introduce skill tree so or char can be good at something like say single target tanking /muti target tanking or damage

    No fix camera or paying to reroll skills just put a vendor far out the way that people have to travel to. And to go to a dungon we have to actually have to travel to it. But can be quick summon to event zones.

    And all monsters have a chance of dropping a unique super rare powerful item.

    And add some kinda element damage so some gear good vs certain monsters.

    Can we just go big and delete the whole leveling theme. Instead we farm items or quest for rare powerful items and rather we take the questing path or killing mobs we can always get good stuff for raids.

    Also I think there should be a special mode for skillers. Those that wanna max all skills they got there on mode and some super end game perks once they cap. So they like have to max there skills with out being able to buy from the store but once they cap all there skill they get a powerful bonus to there stats. These are pve mode only char or at least there perks don’t work in pvp.Any time they can turn there account back to normally but not normal to elite skilled. They also get differnt gear and from quests. And a achievement when they max. Once they max they can turn there account to normal but lose the damage perks but retain the title and achievement but gain the ability to trade again.

    Graphic isn’t important to me as long as it doesn’t look like Atari game. Nintendo or higher graphic is fine. Only thing I want is Ton of good items to chase down in dungon ,raids, or just regular monsters. Also I want some kinda armory that list all items there effects and were they drop.

    And can we get a bounty hunter that send you on quest to kill differnt monsters that give more experience or increase the drop chance of that items your looking for. And can ever monster have boss version

    Oh and can u also add the option for plat player to buy tradable membership passes we can sell in c.s. So if I’m running short on gold we can sell them or maybe we wanna gift a friend a membership
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You've literally just described Order and Chaos. That game was a big failure. As were its clones.
    STS should not make a WoW clone because these tend to fail hard.

    So with all due respect, I'm going to have to strongly disagree.

    STS should stick to their unique formula which no other mobile game has on the market.

    If anything, it's going to be a hybrid between AL and PL. I'm personally hoping for some AL graphics but with PL mechanics such as 12 skills, combo attacks, unique procs etc.

    @Cinco Oh and can we have a really good storyline too?? Kinda felt like PL's storyline wasn't so clear and a lot of players were to focused on grinding than taking in the world around them.
    'Cutscenes' like AL would be very cool. More of those please.
    Last edited by Vapourised; 10-22-2020 at 06:38 AM.

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